What's it like rooting for people who aren't from your home country and don't even speak your language? Have any of you ever had the feeling (except for Sweden and Denmark in CS) of having a team win something (with players from your own country)??? NA, BR, KR, Russia, and other regions experience this wonderful feeling almost every year, but what's it like having to root for foreigners?
0
EMEA COME
posted in
General Discussion
Comments:
Threaded
Linear
i think people in the west, especially Europe dont mind getting behind and supporting people from diverse cultures as long as they are playing for their club/team or even country. There is alot of cross ethnic diversity in these regions as alot of talented individuals from around the world migrate there. Its the same as rooting for Neymar or Messi when he plays for Barca/PSG. They have no reason to look at what language they speak or how they look.
the quota on international talent in football is not because people will not be able to get behind brazillian players in france but because they feel the need to grow local talent. Its inferiority complex, jingoism and borderline racism which disables people to get behind and support people from diverse backgrounds.
The theory is beautiful. In practice: there's no European football team with less than 6-7 players from the home country; most European esports teams are made up of players of different nationalities (here, local talent doesn't matter); It seems that your excessive insecurity and fear about something we don't know is preventing you from seeing the obvious: your argument is rubbish.
Why is it so hard for you to grasp the idea that people can and will support players outside of their country/race/religion/color? Why do you even support LOUD or their players when they dont even know u exist - why not support people only in your MonkeySphere (people u know and talk to on a daily basis -)? Is the jingoism sold by the corrupt politicians in your nation mixed with cocaine that you cannot snap out of it?
First: People can do that, but it seems like they don't like to admit that they do it because they don't have any other choice. Especially Europeans. It's not like a Spaniard wakes up and thinks, "what a lovely day, today I'm going to root for my country's team in Valorant/LOL/CS (whatever)." They simply don't have that alternative and, due to this circumstance, they are led to root for a region (EMEA) with foreign players from several different countries. This is not an opinion, it's just a hard truth to swallow. But gradually, they will be able to overcome this. Second: I root for Loud not because they are Brazilian, since Furia and Mibr are also Brazilian teams and I don't root for them. I root for IDENTIFICATION. Did something happen between September 1st and 20th that made you lose your sanity to the point of not understanding my point? Look at the thread title!
I don't care really?
I mean Loud wouldn't have won anything without the help of "foreigners".
I mean of course it would be cool if your country produced a team that could a huge tournament by themselves, but it's unrealistic for some small and less esports driven countries.
EMEA has been so intertwined amongst each other that there isn't that many reasons to create solo-national teams anymore.
EMEA is more focused on creating the best roster possible to win internationally, hence why teams try select the best players across the whole of emea instead of focusing on a single country.
Loud won with only one foreign player, Saadhak. European teams are often formed with 5 players each from a different country and speaking different languages. I don't see a German who only speaks German, for example, opening the livestream of an esports event where EMEA is playing, to cheer for 5 foreigners...
Yeah Loud won champs with the help of Saadhak and frod.
European teams normally have a common language between the players, this is normally English.
I don't feel like Koi fans would get xenophobic over Koi not having a full Spanish roster?
Winning is most important to fans and organisations.
Whilst they do try to balance this why national pride, winning is still the priority.
It's not about xenophobia, it's about different emotions: rooting for 5 people from your own country is different from rooting for 5 foreigners from different countries, but who are from the same continent. For example, the feeling of rooting for Sentinels is not the same as before, according to some Americans. When 2k and Tarik joined to complete a team that was previously composed of 5 Brazilians, many began to not care if the team lost - it wasn't like before. I see many Europeans pretending not to care about it by saying that we are nationalists, but this argument seems to be used as a facade for the lack of a team to be "nationalistic" about.
Nah, unfortunately you're just wrong. Different strokes for different folks. There are plenty of people that do care and definitely would feel stronger in rooting for a team composed of their country men. But this isn't everyone. A lot of people simply don't have an ounce of nationalism in them. That might be hard to understand for a Brazilian as that definitely doesn't seem to be the case for most people in Brazil, but there are plenty of people that feel that way. You can pretend that's a facade if you want. For some people, I'm sure it is. But it isn't for others. Acting as if you can magically get in everyone's head and know exactly how they feel/think is pretty arrogant and quite frankly makes you come off as pretty delusional.
https://twitter.com/bzkagaming/status/1572046612826030081
https://twitter.com/loud_less/status/1572297141502066688?s=20&t=yvzPNGEbvFVE7X_aFQjliQ
Despite not being an official part of Loud's backroom staff, he was credited by the Loud players and staff for helping them with their pistol round strats.
This probably is one of the reasons why Frod is the head coach now.
this is offensive, anyone can support whoever they want regardless of race, if they feel unified on one aim/goal
who cares whether u live in same place or not, such unity is actually much more precious. i support navi because i like angel, do i need to be Ukranian to support him?duh
ur pov is discriminatory
I guess it is a pattern you see in some people, but doesn't hold for most lol. It's rather a too broad of an assumption
And the way you ask it is even worse, honestly u can just say that it's nice that EMEA supports each other regardless of race, why you ask like "how does it feel like to be that way" really off way to put it
No man, the pattern I'm talking about is having 5 players from different countries on the same team... It's something observable in several European teams. And from the responses, I've come to the conclusion that most of you root for a region and for foreigners from the same continent, rather than for your own country.
This thread is stupid but he is right, here…
He never talked about race at all.
You can be an east asian (chinese/korean japanese) ethnically or racially but still be brazilian (or any other nationality you can think of, works for everyone). Hes talked about supporting ppl from brazil not onky supporting white people or latinos etc etc.
Nationality =/= race.
He is not talking about race at all.
Didn't see you asking Canadians if they feel that way. Argentinians?
Also, you're talking about cultural affinity without recognizing that NA and SA are a melting pot of different cultures. In Brazil you have africans/romani/hispanics/native americans. In NA they have Asians/africans/literally people from all over the world with no cultural affinity to one another.
Thirdly, to answer your ultra racist region-baiting question: We're not racist, we don't judge/like people based on the color of their skin/culture/nationality but by the merits of their character.
Argentines don't root for us, much less for Loud... It's not even necessary to ask. In Brazil, there are different cultures, but everyone is Brazilian and speaks the same language, just like in the United States. You don't have to be racist or judge someone just because you don't want to root for teams with players from other countries who don't even speak your language. You're not racist for not rooting for DRX or T1, for example...
This is so weird. Im American and don't speak great Spanish yet I'm still a massive fan of Leviatan. I love their players and think they are fun to watch, that's all it takes for me to like a team. I don't really care what country they are from. It also helps that KiNgg and Shyy are the two hottest Valorant players
The French, Germans, Italians, and many other European countries are like that. If you root for a region and for foreigners within the same continent, admit it and say out loud: "Okay, my country is weak in any esports, so I have to root for a team made up of players from other countries and pretend that I'm not a nationalist."
My life is not so miserable that I have to root for Argentines, Chileans, Peruvians or any other country in my continent. That's the point, there's no need to change the subject to try to cover up how angry and frustrated you feel about admitting that you root for a region (EMEA) because you have no other choice. There have never been and never will be 5 Greeks good enough in any sport or e-sport for you to be even remotely nationalistic. And there will never be any famous Greek streamer who speaks Greek. You have to settle for consuming content in English. And no, it's not a choice.
So explain this
FNATIC
British Player
Turkish Player
Finnish Player
Swedish Player
Russian Player
FNATIC is a British Org
Who should support these?
Your point only makes sense if the whole team is from one country. Brazilians are so weirdly nationalistic and for what reason,
The country is a shithole
People are backward and corrupt
where does Brazilian nationalism come from?
Esports is for fun and we are all humans, nations are definitely important and i believe everyone loves their country and fellow countryman. But loving, supporting other nations and humans are definitely normal.
Coming to your question, it is definitely a lot different than supporting your nation's team. When 5 Turks are on the same server my blood pumps a lot faster. It is sad to see your team lose but you can always change sides and support other remaining teams in the tournament.
For example i was supporting NAVI in lockin but they got dominated by FNATIC and i supported FNC against LOUD.
btw i just kind of understand know that LOUD with Sacy and pANcada was something else, didn't watch LOUD a lot before but watching Sacy and pANcada in SEN made me think they were really stacked roster. i hope we can see them together again
It's not that deep Lil bro. Support who u like. I don't personally root for GE even though i am Indian. I support TL coz I love nats and redgar. Even in pacific,drx is my favorite bcoz I love their game play and personality. It would be cool to see GE win but I am not gonna feel a connection to them just coz they have Indian players and are an Indian org. Sure many ppl are the opposite of what I am but there are also many ppl like me not just in India but all over the world who root for teams solely based on how much hey like a player or org or in general by feeling a connection to that particular team
I aint talking about the 1950s obviously.. 80% of your '94 and 2002 winning teams played for European clubs. Even now most of your players play for European clubs where they get the money and training which they wouldnt in Brazil. Maybe this wouldnt happen if the Europeans were xenophobic enough to not encourage Brazilian talent. But hey - dont question that because it works for you and BR!!
"80% of your '94 and 2002 winning teams played for European clubs". There have been 5 world cups in last 20 years - other nations dont just come there to participate. you won 3/7 copa americas in last 20 years though - the other 4 winners also had several european club players btw. If there is an argument which is unsustainable on this thread - its yours
I'm talking about Brazil and World Cups. I repeat: the most successful era of the Brazilian national team was the Pele era, when players only played in the Brazilian league. During that time, they won 3 World Cups. 3 is greater than 2. Brazil has won 5 World Cups in total. Since they started exporting our players, we haven't been able to surpass what was achieved during the golden years of Brazilian football.
Stop trying to argue as if you understood the subject. I would never have the audacity to argue sports knowledge about basketball or NFL with you. Let's stick to our own areas of expertise...
Your argument makes no sense. There is no evidence to say Brazilian players were better when they played for BR clubs - if that was the case why doesnt your current squad just field BR club players - or are they not as good as the ones who go to EU clubs? How do Brazilians win so many club trophies in EU? Why cant u accept the fact that EU is not xenophobic enough to accept BR players and train them and give them money? The fact that you think because Im American, I cannot know anything about football (yh i dont call it soccer and dont watch NFL) tells me everything i need to know about you. There are people who enjoy/support stuff outside of their national/cultural/racial boundaries - you are somehow incapable to understand this.
"There is no evidence to say Brazilian players were better when they played for BR clubs"
Is three World Cup wins not evidence enough? Football is purely based on results. Is 20 years without a World Cup win not enough? During this drought, the Brazilian national team was composed of 80% of players who played outside of Brazil. Zero World Cups.
"if that was the case why doesnt your current squad just field BR club players - or are they not as good as the ones who go to EU clubs?"
Currently, the situation is different, and it's not just about money anymore, but because the best players are in Europe. Even if the MLS paid more than European teams, the average American player wouldn't refuse an offer from Chelsea to play in the Premier League, for example. Competitiveness > money. That's why few players go to China, despite them paying on average much more than European teams.
"How do Brazilians win so many club trophies in EU?"
I didn't understand that point, the Brazilian goes to any team aiming for titles... He can be bad and still win a Champions League, the quality of a single player doesn't define the result.
"Why cant u accept the fact that EU is not xenophobic enough to accept BR players and train them and give them money?"
It's not like Europe is doing us a favor by hiring someone. They buy our players because in Brazil we have a good crop for any position on the field, and so they seek to have better results in their respective leagues. Brazilian players accept because most of the time the salary is satisfactory and they will have chances to play against the bests. It's a two-way street, everyone wins.
"There are people who enjoy/support stuff outside of their national/cultural/racial boundaries"
You can support it as much as you want, but many can't admit that they do it because they have no other choice.
I assume you think that because you don't have a country to root for and are forced to put nationalism aside to pretend to like diversity in order to support a region with players from various different countries where most of them don't speak Turkish? Yeah, if Brazil were so weak that it didn't have a competitive team, I would also root for LATAM...
In Portugal, they speak European Portuguese which is quite different and even difficult for a Brazilian to understand. A country the size of a grain of rice managed to colonize Brazil and another the size of a rat managed to colonize the US. Now, they are infinitely less influential than their former colonies, respectively.
Ekhem, Virtus Pro and Polish line up in CS ring a bell? 🤣
We won similar or even more thropies as Sweds and Danes.
Ascend V and Polish line up that won 1st Champio s ring a bell? 🤣
I don't get part about not speaking "your" native language.
Like... you probably never gonna speak with them 🤣
But thing i never understood is how someone becomes an esport player and dont speak even basic english.
Taking zywoo for example, when he emerged as one of the best he spoke non english... how is that even possible in these days?
I am Polish but speak English somehow well so I don't need these players speak Polish really.
And players might not be from X country but org is.
For example Fnatic - UK org with few different country players.
I used to support VP while they had Polish line up, dropped CS esport due to them disbanding.
Followed Ascend when playing V.
But when there is time there is no Polish line up I just watch turnament and when I take liking of some team be It due to performance or them being an underdog I support them and felling is pretty much the same as it is when I support Polish team.
Going to Berlin for EMEA finals, really impressed with Fnatic performance but it would be too easy to support them.
Probably gonna fallow Vitality for this buetyfull underdog story and Polish Molsi playing for them.
its not a thing of preference, i don't root for all UK teams because there are none at the top level, as teams in the region know it's best to scout the whole of EMEA rather than just one country. if there was a full UK team i would root for them, what you're not understanding is that it's often not a matter of "i am actively choosing to root for a team i have no national connection to" but making compromises based on what there is, eg I support Liquid bc Soulcas is british, and Fnc bc its a british org and both boaster and mini are.
But then again that's not to mention at all that i also support teams that i like, outside of country connections. I have no connection to PRX, but i still watch and root for them because i like the players, personalities and gameplay style, something I've found to be weirdly lacking from Brazilian fans, it's very rare to see them be fans of teams or players that aren't from Brazil.
Overall I think its weird to phrase this take in the form of an insult, that we're missing out on something, seeing as most people on this website aside from Brazilians root for what they enjoy watching over what they are close to nationally
I think yes most Europeans support European orgs instead of DRX, Loud etc.
But if their nation is too weak, they just adapt to a Europe-nation- mentality. What I mean by that, they see Europe as their country (continent) and region and root against other regions. Because they are Europeans.
And if teams like heretics have someone like mixwell, it’s enough reason to support this team as a Spaniard even though the other 4 on this roster aren’t Spaniards.
As an American I shit my pants in rage and anger everytime I see one of these so called "American" teams play. Sentinels? 2 BRAZILIANS 2 CANADIANS 1 BRITISH "person" and zekken is asian!!!!! (I only root for people who look like me). EG? Jawg is CAMBODIAN!!!!!!! NRG? Arrdis is LATVIAN, FNS is CANADIAN, only crashies is likable (Im only allowed to like people who look like me) On paper I should be allowed to root for 100T but they secretly have 3 asian players (I cant support people who arent me) Cloud 9 is the only team Im allowed to support (Unlike Loud they are all American which makes them better because im a nationalist)
Dude, where did you get this 'less interesting' thing? It's obviously nice when everyone in your favorite club is from your country, but it is the exception rather than the norm. It's hella cringe to tell someone that they are less interested. Most people support clubs from other countries that have players from all over the world
I noticed that most of those who attack me don't have a team from their own country to support, so it's understandable that when I say these things, I directly attack a belief rooted in some that "it's cool to support 5 foreigners. I support them like never before. No patriotism here!" - you just haven't thought yet that this concept/thought of yours was created in a completely forced way due to lack of choice and options. You can't choose to support a team from the UK (your country) instead of any other team from EMEA, because you simply don't have that option. You MUST ATTACK those who defend the idea that the feeling is much better when there are 5 players from your own country. But it's like you're trying to hide the sun with a sieve. You have to defend the idea that "I have fun and support 5 people who don't even speak my language", because it's the only basis that sustains your support for any team. Without this concept formed forcibly due to lack of choice, you wouldn't have anyone to support. Lack of choice is the key word here.
You strongly believe you should only support a team with all the players from that country. Which you dont even follow otherwise you would be a Furia FAN.
You are uneducated and wrong about this whole topic. You act like the victim. you call everyone foreigners like its a bad thing and then call others xenophobic. you're a troll
A team composed of only 1 or 2 foreigners, but who still speak the same language is different from a team composed of 5 foreigners, each speaking a different language. You are just avoiding and afraid to answer my previous post in which you yourself said "not reading all". Read and respond. Stop behaving like a victim.
most europeans dont have any pride in being european to the point where they will literally cry and post thousand word long responses to people who say someone from that region is bad at a video game. My favourite teams are DRX (I love the way they play), EG (I like an underdog and I like demon1) and GE (same as EG but skrossi), I find emea not as interesting as there is barely any content or drama and the games are all pretty predictable.
What you need to realise is, theres nothing wrong with supporting a team from your own country. The weird thing is when you expect everyone in the world to also love that team, and then shit talk and cry when people dont. How many threads from people from France do you see crying about how everyone makes fun of their team for being shit and calling everyone racist when they say there arent any good french players. Your nationalism needs to be checked sometimes, nothing wrong with being proud of where you are from, but just chill out, no one else cares about you being from brazil
It doesn't change anything, the most influential Portuguese in the world is Brazilian Portuguese. All games and movies are subtitled and dubbed in Brazilian Portuguese. When you have to select a language and "Portuguese" appears - there's the Brazilian flag next to it. It's like EN-US. Most people only speak American English, nobody cares about British English, which is terrible by the way.
I think you are trying to see valorant rooting and supporting with the lens of brazilian football. It's like supporting Corinthians, Flamengo, Palmeiras, etc and then Real Madrid, and I know that seeing Flamengo, Corinthians and Palmeiras win feels WAYYY better than seeing Real Madrid winning and that's because of the sense of community around brazilian football: going to the stadiums, talking to people on the streets about your team, etc.
Since Valorant is an e-sports, the whole sense of community is fundamentally based on the internet, it's very different, my brazilian fellow.
You’re speaking as if there is any intrinsic meaning to rooting for a team with the same nationality as yours, there isn’t
You only think that’s important because it’s the culture and dominant thought you were raised in, meanwhile Europeans are used to having people from all nationalities in their teams and that’s what’s normal to them, there’s no right or wrong here so stop applying the lens through which you see the world to judge other people’s behaviors
For the thousandth time: I have nothing against it. People can root for a continent. My issue is: they do it more because it's a forced movement, rather than a choice between rooting for an EMEA team full of foreigners or rooting for an EMEA team only with players from my country, for example - The lack of options reinforces the initial thought that makes them defend the idea of "diversity and unity." It's not wrong, for the thousand and first time.
Nationalism is weak, you place your value and pride into something created by humans, something that has no value something that cannot benefit you in any way except to hate/love just because you were born in a certain place. That place you were born in you did not choose. You did not choose Brazil just like someone from America didn’t choose America. You didn’t not choose poverty or wealth just like you did not choose a war torn land over a prosperous land. It’s prideful to associate yourself with that, weak and makes you hard hearted. It’s weak minded and obtuse to assume something about someone based off of their appearance. Yes, some cultures are inherently better than others, if they benefit, instead of being delusional and continuing something based off of pride and for the sake of continuing something. It’s like nationalism is all you have. (Culture that is good :food, clothing, anything that doesn’t divide us humans based off of certain customs.)
Race is a social construct, yes, it only divides and creates animosity, we have different face shapes, features, that are all used to differentiate and identify, not to place more or less value, except to create communities and segregate us. But choosing to desegregate is also not inherently bad, except that you may feel like an outsider, so having your own people is good, you feel apart of something, but the moment you hate and discriminate based only of color, and ethnicity, is the moment you have become ignorant prideful, and arrogant. You should discriminate , Yes!, but only based off of morals, good character, and trustworthiness, based off of religious piety (how much he fears God, this does not apply if you are atheist and polytheist, but you will see a difference between the one who is pious and not.)
Do not place value on something that can give you nothing in return, nationalism is evil, ignorant and prideful, if you use nationalism to base your morals, your whole opinion, your happiness and contentment, it’s like you worship it. Don’t be weak.
Cheering for teams with players from the same country creates a sense of community and identity among fans, which makes the experience exciting in itself. People come together around a common goal, which can increase the sense of belonging and unity. It's fun to cheer for a team that represents your culture and traditions, with players that you can identify with and share values through the same language. There is a sense of responsibility and pride, which may not exist in other cases (such as the one mentioned in my question). There's nothing wrong with these feelings and experiences described above. It has nothing to do with nationalism, which is a political ideology. It's a feeling that we can, perhaps, correlate with patriotism. Brazil is a multiracial country, just like the origin of the players who represent Loud/FURIA/Mibr, which is already a clear evidence that Brazilian fans rooting for Brazilian teams has nothing to do with race/ethnicity, as you suggested. My point is: rooting for teams with players who have no connection to you (as a fan) MAY (that's why I asked) make the experience less engaging and exciting because there is no social identity relationship that can be observed in teams with opposite characteristics, making everything much less thrilling. You have confused nationalism (an ideology) with nationality (the condition or status of belonging to a certain region). You can have Brazilian nationality because you were born in Brazil and not be a nationalist - someone who values and promotes national identity, as well as the sovereignty and independence of the State in relation to other countries.
Race, nationality or origin of players doesn't matter. Enjoy the players and teams by where the organization is located, the major region (americas, EMEA or pacific) or the players themselves. I'm in the US and my favorite teams are EDG, LOUD, Liquid and EG. Only one of those teams is even from where I live.
Discord