FUT Esports vs. LEVIATÁN | Champions Tour 2024: Masters Shanghai | Swiss Stage | Valorant match

south_america_best_region

-1

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x2.8 on foot grab it fast yummy

#47

ParodyAccount

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bye eu

#48

nanashitokumei111

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LEV 2-1 FUT

#49

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que fácil

#50

GARY123

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1st champion vs 2nd and 3rd.

#51

BackoxyXD

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lev 26-0 coming sadly
leviatan so much better than g2 and 100t

#52

thatbn

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aspas going to give cned ptsd

#53

ShaoFeng

-21

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oiiink [#1]
Eu loses here

Indeed, aspas drops 85 on 🦶
Lev 2-1

#54

belcikalivl

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alche [#39]
Fut is very bad, they barely beat even the worst team of the tournament. I don't want to see them in the playoffs

sığır bayraktan önce logoyu değişeymişin 😂😂

#55

Alocon_

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belcikalivl [#54]
sığır bayraktan önce logoyu değişeymişin 😂😂

bu arkadaşa twitchte de denk geliyorum full toksiklik peşinde

#56

batchestingveryhard

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foot esports
Riot just letting anyone into these tournaments 😭 🙏

#57

Zelestia

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LEV 2 - 0 FUT
Middle east team going home

#58

letmetakemyL

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batchestingveryhard [#56]
foot esports
Riot just letting anyone into these tournaments 😭 🙏

no joke they was strogenst in the region by far. after they beaten by th and fnc something changes and they sucks now. if you dont belive it just look their matchs.

#59

yexiaoxia1

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fut打的不好，至少打drg的时候给我的感觉是这样的。但是lev也。。。我觉得com可能会犯罪（如果没有当我没说）。真的很难说，lev2-1吧

#60

roshizera03

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Ez win for us, memea doesnt have one good team.Its going to be the biggest duelist diff I have ever seen.

#61

SmartPerson

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YaoMung [#17]
Frauds vs frauds (excluding Aspas), losing team gets left in China and has to learn Chinese.

lev has not lose to a chinese team

#62

Xterli

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FUT play like bots so ez for LEV and Aspas 💚

#63

Raihell

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Predict 2-0 Fut win Result 2-1 FUT WIN
In both maps cNed will destroy Aspas he already did this in Navi vs Loud and it will be even easier to do it again

edited: WHERE ARE THE GOLDS WHO SAID EMEA CAN ONLY BEAT CHINA?
edited: THE TEAM YOU CALLED OVERRATED DEFEATED THE STRONGEST TEAM FROM WHAT YOU CONSIDER THE STRONGEST REGION
edited: GOAT CNED DONKEY ASPAS

#64

VOLTREAL

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yssmiac [#38]
GenG'ye karşı oynarken silseymiş o zaman.

geng ile fut'u aynı kefeye mi koyuyorsun sen geng bu sene büyük ihtimalle şampiyon olacak zaten neyse 2.35 free oran yarın maçta görüşürüz dost

#65

yssmiac

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VOLTREAL [#64]
geng ile fut'u aynı kefeye mi koyuyorsun sen geng bu sene büyük ihtimalle şampiyon olacak zaten neyse 2.35 free oran yarın maçta görüşürüz dost

Adam aspası övdü diye dedim

#66

destroylonely

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FUT lost to FPX and had a close series against DRG no way they win here

LEV 2-0

#67

Ainzach

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Bind, Sunset, Icebox = FUT 1-2 LEV

Split, Breeze, Lotus = FUT 2-1 LEV

We will not be seeing Ascent this time. (Hopefully) Otherwise FUT 1-2 LEV.

#68

xabyy7

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cned is way better than aspas when it comes to team play but aspas is more consistent. fut will beat lev, calling it right now

#69

my-dad-ate-my-toes

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aspas > cNed but cNed with help > aspas no help so let's pray for a regular Mazino tex c0m double neg game and a kiNgg off game

#70

Gregibawse

1

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KlobotXXL [#46]
x2.8 on foot grab it fast yummy

ah yes how to burn money

#71

I3ait

2

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c0m

#72

sentinelmain377

0

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LEV 2-0 FUT

#73

an-nyang

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Lev win

#74

aaabbbccc

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Bye bye FUT watch them choke leads on everymap and lose confidence and miss everyshot i love this team but they need to just chill out and play and vibe. KEEP SCREAMING YETUJEY. GRIA APAS 2-0 LEV

#75

MakiseKurisu

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FUT 2-0 LEV
even though lev beat t1 but the performance is tooooo bad.

#76

thegreatestsigma

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noob c0m easy 2-0 FUT, cUm will throw

#77

MakiseKurisu

3

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yexiaoxia1 [#59]
fut打的不好，至少打drg的时候给我的感觉是这样的。但是lev也。。。我觉得com可能会犯罪（如果没有当我没说）。真的很难说，lev2-1吧

利维坦跟t1的比赛像在赤石
我猜fut2-1

#78

eXster0

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Xi fu tang

#79

LostInTheCloud

-15

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oiiink [#1]
Eu loses here

ITT: Americans think that FUT is EU.

#80

BLCK_Shadow

4

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LostInTheCloud [#79]
ITT: Americans think that FUT is EU.

They're the number 4 team in Europe

#81

StockFish

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LEV 2-0 FUT Aspas drops +30 for both map

#82

EMEAstan

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c0m goes -20 here

#83

buy_mace_30gp

3

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FUT 2-0 LEV

#84

GutterSnipe

4

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(map pick = LOSE) tournament. lul

#85

2

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Gregibawse [#70]
ah yes how to burn money

???? just tripled my money

#86

RzqoFoxie

2

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What is that performance from LEV... holy

#87

TopmostKek

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Lot of this shit ain't even C0M's fault. Nobody but tex is shooting. kiNgg is hard throwing. Lev playing like their kickoff selves.

#88

-7

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#47 easiest money of this week

i mean, cn00b < Asspass
but, foot >>>>>>>>>>>> lev

#89

auggie2

4

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lmaooooooooo emea haters in the mud

#90

TyChiii

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getting 13-0ed on ur map choice.. yikes

#91

egdemon1goat

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ASS PAS HAHAHAHA

#92

Jojafox

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RzqoFoxie [#86]
What is that performance from LEV... holy

Not their fault, production forgot to tell them that this isn't warmup anymore

#93

auggie2

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SanePath [#6]
~~LEV 2-0 FUT~~
LEV 2-1 FUT

Damnn wp FUT.

maybe edit again xd

#94

Jojafox

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One kill away from the 13-0, unlucky :/

#95

BadlandsChugs

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Lev picked sunset by the way

#96

KochamSmakKoziejSpermy

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oiiink [#1]
Eu loses here

uuh almost 13-0 on first map

#97

GerardBowek

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no way we might have 3x EMEA teams in playoffs after all

#98

ArvY

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tW6lbDSyoehsJPSDshFz [#15]
2-0 FUT
Yetujey clears Aspas 🐺🐺🐺

bro actually fully predicted map 1

#99

brezyyy

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considering LEV Lotus this should be 2x speedrun

#100

reaper_rega08

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NA is so trash that almost got 13-0ed two times in Swiss stage. Sen and NRG lost to these noob teams?

#101

Nik0TIN3

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1ucid [#29]
Fut doesn't look good,ppl overstimate this turkish team

i dont blame you for thinnking that after that loss to fpx

#102

WstdDok

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StockFish [#81]
LEV 2-0 FUT Aspas drops +30 for both map

W

#103

8

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when TEX is the top fragger of your team something is really off

#104

curryb0i

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alche [#39]
Fut is very bad, they barely beat even the worst team of the tournament. I don't want to see them in the playoffs

imagine losing to fut

#105

1ucid

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Nik0TIN3 [#101]
i dont blame you for thinnking that after that loss to fpx

i don't think i 'm being exact,they're unstable,but they have high ceiling

#106

MakiseKurisu

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why they won that fk round
I want to see 13-0

#107

s0raval

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Zerphyr1 [#5]
bye bye eu

🤷‍♂️

#108

curryb0i

5

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Zerphyr1 [#5]
bye bye eu

bye bye AU

#109

Nicetakelol

3

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Zerphyr1 [#5]
bye bye eu

Bye bye fpx lmaoo💀

#110

gime114

10

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BLCK_Shadow [#80]
They're the number 4 team in Europe

They're #3 in EMEA*

#111

-2

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FUT losing 5v2 on full eco choke begins

#112

Fakur02

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yippykovac [#111]
FUT losing 5v2 on full eco choke begins

cope is insane

#113

fwdekid

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FUT will choke as usual

#114

Diablo25

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fwdekid [#113]
FUT will choke as usual

Classic emea

#115

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Fakur02 [#112]
cope is insane

cant tell me i was wrong they have clowned the map

#116

0

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Why you pick a defensive comp on a atack map? IQ diff

#117

Japan322

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good 322 RIOT

#118

fwdekid

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Look at both these teams recent match history on lotus and tell me this game isn’t scripted from 7-5

#119

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KlobotXXL [#85]
???? just tripled my money

Bro forgot it’s a best of 3 LOL. Shouldn’t be talking so soon dweeb.

#120

Jojafox

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2-1 for LEV, that was FUTs chance
That 4v2 in the fifth killed the map for them

#121

5percentTINT

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fwdekid [#118]
Look at both these teams recent match history on lotus and tell me this game isn’t scripted from 7-5

Shut up

#122

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Jojafox [#120]
2-1 for LEV, that was FUTs chance
That 4v2 in the fifth killed the map for them

5v2

#123

FlipMonke

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Aspas playing linda bad today, kiNgg needed to step up. Still believe in map 3, let's go.

#124

0

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fwdekid [#118]
Look at both these teams recent match history on lotus and tell me this game isn’t scripted from 7-5

why scripted? FUT had a terrible comp, that didnt work really well on atack

#125

onDez

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Jojafox [#120]
2-1 for LEV, that was FUTs chance
That 4v2 in the fifth killed the map for them

yeah the momentum was changed there

#126

fwdekid

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5percentTINT [#121]
Shut up

U were the guy who believed in Santa until he was a teenager huh

#127

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13-1 on 1st map
11-13 on 2nd almost reverse

and you think “nah, its clearly fut on 3rd”
and they magically lose ¯_(ツ)_/¯

#128

klaus_god_top1

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TopmostKek [#87]
Lot of this shit ain't even C0M's fault. Nobody but tex is shooting. kiNgg is hard throwing. Lev playing like their kickoff selves.

flag...

c0m is a bot. He is ruining the team.

#129

c0nnorgg

2

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south_america_best_region [#49]
que fácil

e isso

#130

-6

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Fut let the best Turkish player end up on Heretics and settled for the bots

#131

capital_d_colon

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yeah Leviatan look way more comfortable on bind.
Also the lev comp seems way better to get into post plant positions.

#132

antikapasiki

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gg 2-1

#133

-4

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Fakur02 [#112]
cope is insane

comeback to talk about this ?

#134

1

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KevinIsGreat [#119]
Bro forgot it’s a best of 3 LOL. Shouldn’t be talking so soon dweeb.

i bet per map, nt

#135

0

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KlobotXXL [#88]
#47 easiest money of this week

i mean, cn00b < Asspass
but, foot >>>>>>>>>>>> lev

Bro actually thought the game was over after 1 map LOL

#136

charleser

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Imagine staying up to watch this match

#137

MoonBound

0

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6-1 and we just start crumbling. WTF LEV. Cmon

Update: ok so wtf happened? Why LEV suddenly became braindead

#138

Peteer

-1

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6-1 to 6-5 congrat Lev, battle of mid

#139

jonty

0

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6-1 6-6 AHAHAH

#140

YaoMung

-2

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SMH fraud C0m gonna make playoffs over FPX

#141

lysenkerr

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another festival of mudslinging

#142

Diablo74

2

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2 mid teams. Who win this map will get destroyed in playoff.

#143

Yomijkee

0

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futa esports gogogo

#144

ogti

0

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c0m is useless yet he keep taunting what a n00b

#145

0

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KevinIsGreat [#135]
Bro actually thought the game was over after 1 map LOL

and this bozo thought lev was going to win 🫵😂 GYATTA KAPTAN wants to say goodbye 🥱

#146

cocoluna

0

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match fixing?

#147

1

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ez x3 on foot yummy 😋 bye NA 🫵😂 all hail GYATTA KAPTAN

#148

doyouvalueyourself

1

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Kick this paycheck stealer named C0m, it's not even funny how awful this player is

#149

Prontera

1

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Learn chinese while u there , c0m.

U are not a tier 1 player anymore. lol

#150

1ucid

1

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c0m can''t aim

#151

c0nnorgg

0

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qisso

#152

antikapasiki

6

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GG WP

#153

1

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+

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bye na 🤣 bye cUm 🤣

#154

Rico98

4

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oiiink [#1]
Eu loses here

lololollll

#155

SlimShadyNick

1

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Com retire for godsake

#156

Fakur02

2

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yippykovac [#133]
comeback to talk about this ?

come back to talk about this?

#157

Diipsheet

1

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Why C0m not holding? He needed to take 1 there.

#158

capital_d_colon

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capital_d_colon [#131]
yeah Leviatan look way more comfortable on bind.
Also the lev comp seems way better to get into post plant positions.

That adjustment on the attack side won the whole game, it was looking dire until they switched things up.

#159

Arachnid_1

1

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goodbye c0m we will not missing u

#160

Diablo74

6

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Hahaha, happy to see this. Aspas wasting his career in this team.

#161

Serkann75

10

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PASPAS YATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

#162

kanyewestlover991

0

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FUT looking like the dark horse

#163

GerardBowek

0

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GerardBowek [#97]
no way we might have 3x EMEA teams in playoffs after all

FPX robbed

#164

eren1x

0

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kick c0m out and aspas please go to a better team. who did u guys lose to a mickey mouse team called FUT MAN OMFG

#165

highlyte

0

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FPX DIED FOR THIS

#166

arielcsgo

0

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frauds

#167

mirakel

3

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If COM hold that angle, they have better chances of winning. What a stupid decision to check short.

#168

5percentTINT

1

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cUm strikes again

#169

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KlobotXXL [#145]
and this bozo thought lev was going to win 🫵😂 GYATTA KAPTAN wants to say goodbye 🥱

I never said they were gonna win… I only said you seem pretty confident after 1 map LOL… and ik you were shitting yourself the whole 3rd map. I’m not a dweeb like you, I don’t live for these cartoon games

#170

Marmara

2

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yippykovac [#133]
comeback to talk about this ?

Doesn't seem like it

#171

Fakur02

1

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fut will choke XD

#172

Casal

8

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kanyenum1fan [#7]
emea is GONE!

LMAOOOOOOO

#173

brezyyy

1

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c0m bouta have his contract torn apart on stage

#174

GOSUb

1

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Hard fought 2600 USD, but everything turned out perfectly! AtaKaptan ON TOP

#175

tW6lbDSyoehsJPSDshFz

2

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ArvY [#98]
bro actually fully predicted map 1

☝️☝️☝️

#176

TooCaution_Heartless

1

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last round is painful to watch

#177

Nightfall01

2

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oiiink [#1]
Eu loses here

You were saying?

#178

-2

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Fakur02 [#156]
come back to talk about this?

they lost the map ?

#179

Aware

1

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This Leviatan team doesn't work as a collective,
and individually c0m never performs, that's bizarre

#180

skirmisher

17

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ShaoFeng [#53]
Indeed, aspas drops 85 on 🦶
Lev 2-1

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA asspas negative

#181

xjlrs

6

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oiiink [#1]
Eu loses here

MEMERICA. JAJAJAJJAJAJAJAJSJSJ

#182

renge

0

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Imagine laughing after a 1-13 loss, what a joke.

#183

kingpogonek

2

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cum is thrash beyond repair😶

#184

BliTzgoop

4

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oiiink [#1]
Eu loses here

LOL

#185

Alocon_

0

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alche [#39]
Fut is very bad, they barely beat even the worst team of the tournament. I don't want to see them in the playoffs

sen en iyisi belli olur olmaz oynayacağımız takımın logosunu seç

100t geldi

#186

0

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KevinIsGreat [#169]
I never said they were gonna win… I only said you seem pretty confident after 1 map LOL… and ik you were shitting yourself the whole 3rd map. I’m not a dweeb like you, I don’t live for these cartoon games

its okay mate no need to hide ur cry over these cartoons

#187

KIPI

0

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Ata shut me up. keep it going lads

#188

Rico98

6

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Dhrom49 [#26]
LEV 2-0
(fut is trash and overrated)

Americas who?

#189

avenger50000

7

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Remember guys, if C0M can play franchise, you can do anything you want in life.

#190

potatoscar

7

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c0m most consistent player, bottom fragging the whole season, impressive.

#191

letmetakemyL

4

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Diablo25 [#114]
Classic emea

classic indian

#192

TooCaution_Heartless

0

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come on 11 13 could go either way thought??

#193

Scar98

2

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kick cUm

#194

0

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KlobotXXL [#186]
its okay mate no need to hide ur cry over these cartoons

“GYATTA KAPTAN” lmaooo you need help little man

#195

rttnMarco

1

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c0m has to go

#196

reaper_rega08

0

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NA is trash almost got 13-0ed twice in this tournament. To all those people who thought FNC, TH and FUT are struggling and looking shaking whatever they all are in playoffs now. Best region confirmed🗿

#197

ihatemylife

1

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c0m is the most awful player to watch, dude is pretending to be tier 1 player.
Literally always holding his team back feel sad for the rest of LEV player - even on the last round its evident that his gamesense is not on par with the rest of the players.

#198

Rojas

1

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c0m is the worst player

#199

Levzon

4

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oiiink [#1]
Eu loses here

respectfully sit down x

#200

doyouvalueyourself

4

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C0m woke up feeling dangerous today 🔥
28/46/17 (-18)
7 kills in decider map
Bottom frag every match

WORLD CHAMPION BTW 😿💔😂😂😂

#201

kbkdark

4

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Aspas said that he went to LEV to be World Champion again
LMFAO
I love Aspas, but he did a shit move honestly

I hope LEV don't win a shit this, specially for what they've done to NZR

#202

0

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KevinIsGreat [#194]
“GYATTA KAPTAN” lmaooo you need help little man

GYATTA KAPTAN GYATTA KAPTAN GYATTA KAPTAN GYATTA KAPTAN GYATTA KAPTAN GYATTA KAPTAN

#203

BEHEMOTH

2

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eren1x [#164]
kick c0m out and aspas please go to a better team. who did u guys lose to a mickey mouse team called FUT MAN OMFG

Pooper rex fan calling FUT frauds, the team you rep are the biggest frauds lmao

#204

Raihell

3

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VOLTREAL [#21]
aynen aspasla cned'i nasıl karşılaştırıyor olabilirsin ki asmkşcasmck aspas silecek yarın kanka

Klasik bebele fanı git de ferit abini serinlet ateşlenmiş yatıyodur şimdi

#205

washeddiamondbot

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com bot biggest fraud in valorant history get this shit off ma team asap

#206

Vyantic

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south_america_best_region [#49]
que fácil

¿Qué cosa, comprar tiquetes?

#207

Chi-square

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Mazino sentiu na pele o que o Aspas sentiu no jogo contra a Choke 9. Matou 30 pra perder a série.

#208

Vyantic

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I'm surprised that people expected LEV to perform.
My brothers in christ, your coach was the assistant coach of the most fucking ass team in history, KOI.
That guy only knows how to lose in style.

#209

Sonatine

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yetujey = Monster.

I don't know what would happen if Alfajer, Wo0t and yetujey would play in one team. xD

#210

czis

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cum might just be the worst player in vct rn

#211

Element18

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oiiink [#1]
Eu loses here

Sit

#212

Element18

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alche [#39]
Fut is very bad, they barely beat even the worst team of the tournament. I don't want to see them in the playoffs

No prob , lev can bring u some MC from HOME hahahaha delusion is nr 1 in fat country

#213

BenitaT0ry

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MakiseKurisu [#77]
利维坦跟t1的比赛像在赤石
我猜fut2-1

W

#214

Breloof

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A bunch of fellas from the Turkish countryside vs pan-American superteam, go figure

#215

flashN

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VOLTREAL [#64]
geng ile fut'u aynı kefeye mi koyuyorsun sen geng bu sene büyük ihtimalle şampiyon olacak zaten neyse 2.35 free oran yarın maçta görüşürüz dost

2.35 oranın geldi mi dostum

#216

Fbklover

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BRO How can LEV lose this

#217

eren1x

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BEHEMOTH [#203]
Pooper rex fan calling FUT frauds, the team you rep are the biggest frauds lmao

ur trash ass team called FUT, cant even get first in their own region. THATS EMBRASSING LOL. Id rather support fnc than ur fav team called fut. u bum

#218

yungbasel

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FUT did us so fucking proud

#219

Aspas: https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/aspas%23na%D1%85y/weapons?season=all
Demon1: https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/NRG%20Demon1%23kata/weapons?playlist=competitive&season=all

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I think the silliest thing in Valorant is the idea that we must always use certain agents on specific maps. Also, the belief that if someone is a duelist, they're responsible for playing all duelist agents is just crazy.

The idea that "we must play these agents on this map" is totally misunderstood. It's so frustrating that it makes me want to pull my hair out. Before we go further, you should know that I'm old. I've seen and been part of the entire evolution of organized esports. We act like we've built esports on solid ground, but really, there are no textbooks or experiments to guide us. We're the test subjects, and no one's writing this stuff down.

The logic behind "we must play these agents" is that their abilities solve the problems the map presents. This assumes a few things that seem to be wrong. First, that we've identified and completely understood the problems on the map. For example, Viper has a long wall and Breeze is a big map. The wall is reusable, applies a debuff, and denies vision. But this is useless if our Viper dies in the first 30 seconds of the round. The lack of discipline around this is crazy.

How often do pros die in situations where their utility would have been useful? This is my first "I'm going to die on this hill" moment: you can't convince me that making pros play agents they don't enjoy is the best decision. This decision assumes perfection in utility usage, positioning, and timing, which isn't realistic. You're expecting perfection from agents they don't like, which require a specific style and gameplay adjustment. All for what? So they don't use the utility and don't have fun?

In competitive ranked play, gunplay comes first. I get that. But the teams that understand and creatively use utility will be the ultimate winners. Utility gives an advantage, and at the top 0.01% skill level, that advantage is huge.

What we see evolving is coaches with minimal game understanding forcing teams to use the same comps as everyone else, expecting to dominate based on their players' skills. This is why we see players like Demon1 and Aspas underperforming.

Why do Aspas and Demon1 seem shaky on Raze compared to other agents? Raze is unique because she disrupts movement before shooting. When Raze lands, there's a sudden slowdown in acceleration, disrupting movement. This is fine with a Phantom due to its low recoil reset and movement penalties. But if we look at their stats:

Both players have significantly less experience with Phantoms than Vandals. We often say these guns are the same, but they’re not. At a basic level, yes, but beyond that, movement is the key difference. The Phantom's low reset time suits the new wave of gunplay, while the Vandal's one-tap potential struggles on Raze.

Pairing Raze with a Phantom optimizes her efficiency. If a player isn't using the Phantom, it's not because their aim is bad; their style is different. For Aspas and Demon1, their aim is more mechanical and deliberate. Disrupting that with Raze introduces extra steps they haven't practiced at a top level.

So, back to the issue of "agents must be played on this map." We've all heard the saying, "there's more than one way to skin a cat." We need to embrace this proverb. Let's try different strategies that match our players' skills instead of forcing them into roles they don't fit or enjoy.

pre-gpt: https://pastebin.com/Zyfx9D16

#220

Jmeister

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I'm sorry BUT COM has been doing horrible since joining LEV, he's had so much opportunity to make impactful plays.. and he just fails.. I don't know if its his aim or game sense, but something ain't working. I foresee them dropping com. Because he just is not making moves.

#222

Kudryavka

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i still wonder why c0m manage to win champs with these stats

#223

KlRBY

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d

#224

akimb0_

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metaph0ur [#219]
I think the silliest thing in Valorant is the idea that we must always use certain agents on specific maps. Also, the belief that if someone is a duelist, they're responsible for playing all duelist agents is just crazy.

The idea that "we must play these agents on this map" is totally misunderstood. It's so frustrating that it makes me want to pull my hair out. Before we go further, you should know that I'm old. I've seen and been part of the entire evolution of organized esports. We act like we've built esports on solid ground, but really, there are no textbooks or experiments to guide us. We're the test subjects, and no one's writing this stuff down.

The logic behind "we must play these agents" is that their abilities solve the problems the map presents. This assumes a few things that seem to be wrong. First, that we've identified and completely understood the problems on the map. For example, Viper has a long wall and Breeze is a big map. The wall is reusable, applies a debuff, and denies vision. But this is useless if our Viper dies in the first 30 seconds of the round. The lack of discipline around this is crazy.

How often do pros die in situations where their utility would have been useful? This is my first "I'm going to die on this hill" moment: you can't convince me that making pros play agents they don't enjoy is the best decision. This decision assumes perfection in utility usage, positioning, and timing, which isn't realistic. You're expecting perfection from agents they don't like, which require a specific style and gameplay adjustment. All for what? So they don't use the utility and don't have fun?

In competitive ranked play, gunplay comes first. I get that. But the teams that understand and creatively use utility will be the ultimate winners. Utility gives an advantage, and at the top 0.01% skill level, that advantage is huge.

What we see evolving is coaches with minimal game understanding forcing teams to use the same comps as everyone else, expecting to dominate based on their players' skills. This is why we see players like Demon1 and Aspas underperforming.

Why do Aspas and Demon1 seem shaky on Raze compared to other agents? Raze is unique because she disrupts movement before shooting. When Raze lands, there's a sudden slowdown in acceleration, disrupting movement. This is fine with a Phantom due to its low recoil reset and movement penalties. But if we look at their stats:

Aspas: https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/aspas%23na%D1%85y/weapons?season=all
Demon1: https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/NRG%20Demon1%23kata/weapons?playlist=competitive&season=all

Both players have significantly less experience with Phantoms than Vandals. We often say these guns are the same, but they’re not. At a basic level, yes, but beyond that, movement is the key difference. The Phantom's low reset time suits the new wave of gunplay, while the Vandal's one-tap potential struggles on Raze.

Pairing Raze with a Phantom optimizes her efficiency. If a player isn't using the Phantom, it's not because their aim is bad; their style is different. For Aspas and Demon1, their aim is more mechanical and deliberate. Disrupting that with Raze introduces extra steps they haven't practiced at a top level.

So, back to the issue of "agents must be played on this map." We've all heard the saying, "there's more than one way to skin a cat." We need to embrace this proverb. Let's try different strategies that match our players' skills instead of forcing them into roles they don't fit or enjoy.

pre-gpt: https://pastebin.com/Zyfx9D16

forcing too much on that bait. giveaway saying aspas seems shaky on raze

#225

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Kudryavka [#222]
i still wonder why c0m manage to win champs with these stats

Potter ?

#226

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metaph0ur [#219]
I think the silliest thing in Valorant is the idea that we must always use certain agents on specific maps. Also, the belief that if someone is a duelist, they're responsible for playing all duelist agents is just crazy.

The idea that "we must play these agents on this map" is totally misunderstood. It's so frustrating that it makes me want to pull my hair out. Before we go further, you should know that I'm old. I've seen and been part of the entire evolution of organized esports. We act like we've built esports on solid ground, but really, there are no textbooks or experiments to guide us. We're the test subjects, and no one's writing this stuff down.

The logic behind "we must play these agents" is that their abilities solve the problems the map presents. This assumes a few things that seem to be wrong. First, that we've identified and completely understood the problems on the map. For example, Viper has a long wall and Breeze is a big map. The wall is reusable, applies a debuff, and denies vision. But this is useless if our Viper dies in the first 30 seconds of the round. The lack of discipline around this is crazy.

How often do pros die in situations where their utility would have been useful? This is my first "I'm going to die on this hill" moment: you can't convince me that making pros play agents they don't enjoy is the best decision. This decision assumes perfection in utility usage, positioning, and timing, which isn't realistic. You're expecting perfection from agents they don't like, which require a specific style and gameplay adjustment. All for what? So they don't use the utility and don't have fun?

In competitive ranked play, gunplay comes first. I get that. But the teams that understand and creatively use utility will be the ultimate winners. Utility gives an advantage, and at the top 0.01% skill level, that advantage is huge.

What we see evolving is coaches with minimal game understanding forcing teams to use the same comps as everyone else, expecting to dominate based on their players' skills. This is why we see players like Demon1 and Aspas underperforming.

Why do Aspas and Demon1 seem shaky on Raze compared to other agents? Raze is unique because she disrupts movement before shooting. When Raze lands, there's a sudden slowdown in acceleration, disrupting movement. This is fine with a Phantom due to its low recoil reset and movement penalties. But if we look at their stats:

Aspas: https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/aspas%23na%D1%85y/weapons?season=all
Demon1: https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/NRG%20Demon1%23kata/weapons?playlist=competitive&season=all

Both players have significantly less experience with Phantoms than Vandals. We often say these guns are the same, but they’re not. At a basic level, yes, but beyond that, movement is the key difference. The Phantom's low reset time suits the new wave of gunplay, while the Vandal's one-tap potential struggles on Raze.

Pairing Raze with a Phantom optimizes her efficiency. If a player isn't using the Phantom, it's not because their aim is bad; their style is different. For Aspas and Demon1, their aim is more mechanical and deliberate. Disrupting that with Raze introduces extra steps they haven't practiced at a top level.

So, back to the issue of "agents must be played on this map." We've all heard the saying, "there's more than one way to skin a cat." We need to embrace this proverb. Let's try different strategies that match our players' skills instead of forcing them into roles they don't fit or enjoy.

pre-gpt: https://pastebin.com/Zyfx9D16

I understand you mush, but I really feel that you see Valorant with the eye of someone that have experience in classical FPS more than MOBA or hero shooter where in some game the pick can make 80% of victory, In a moba if you pick 5 assacin, you loose even if your player like their char.

I'm not saying Valorant pick is as mush important as moba pick, it's obviously not the case, but it's kinda hard to guess how mush the agent pick take a place in the victory. My actual position is this one : You need at least a smoker, and you need at least an agent that gives active vision/info (Sova, Fade, Skye, Gekko), it's usually better to have one diver (But I start thinking if Riot continue to nerf the only 2 agents, we might enter a world where no duelist are viable), If a team as one info and a smoker, i'm raising an eyebrow and give a chance to the weird comp (yes even if it's a Jett on Lotus), but if that's not the case like FUT no vision on Lotus, I will just consider the composition is not good. And I still consider those 2 criteria isn't enough, and I'm a bit laxest and need to find even more (I tend to put "having a diver" as a third criteria but with Icebox and possibly new nerf i'm not sure of that)

#227

nongthewkub

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Leviathan kick nzr for cum so sad

#228

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Anguibok [#226]
I understand you mush, but I really feel that you see Valorant with the eye of someone that have experience in classical FPS more than MOBA or hero shooter where in some game the pick can make 80% of victory, In a moba if you pick 5 assacin, you loose even if your player like their char.

I'm not saying Valorant pick is as mush important as moba pick, it's obviously not the case, but it's kinda hard to guess how mush the agent pick take a place in the victory. My actual position is this one : You need at least a smoker, and you need at least an agent that gives active vision/info (Sova, Fade, Skye, Gekko), it's usually better to have one diver (But I start thinking if Riot continue to nerf the only 2 agents, we might enter a world where no duelist are viable), If a team as one info and a smoker, i'm raising an eyebrow and give a chance to the weird comp (yes even if it's a Jett on Lotus), but if that's not the case like FUT no vision on Lotus, I will just consider the composition is not good. And I still consider those 2 criteria isn't enough, and I'm a bit laxest and need to find even more (I tend to put "having a diver" as a third criteria but with Icebox and possibly new nerf i'm not sure of that)

I think your composition is good for general play. But I think what I'm trying to get at is that a valorant map is an informational puzzle. To pick a comp that doesn't address specifics in the map is crazy. That's why I think the general idea about comp is misplaced and the execution is wrong. I think it's extremely difficult to argue with the premise that there is no point to have a meta comp if your talent consistently dies and leaves it unused.

But at the same time, you need to understand the agents you are asking your talent to play. I think because the current coaching system is gatekept by cronyism we actually don't get to see talent used in a way that optimizes efficiency because the knowledge level isn't there. And like I originally said, there's no textbook to go back to or back of the book to check your answers. So we're sort of at a stand still.

I'm just hoping at some point we get to see more coaches who have grown out of Valorant and maybe somewhere around year 7 or 8 we get a true coach without the influence of CS or other games. Valorant is so different and we see the failings in VCT because of it.

#229

Unincognito

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LostInTheCloud [#79]
ITT: Americans think that FUT is EU.

Depends

#230

Chi-square

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Kudryavka [#222]
i still wonder why c0m manage to win champs with these stats

Potter diff. Give her 5 iron players, she van turn them into champ players.

#231

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metaph0ur [#228]
I think your composition is good for general play. But I think what I'm trying to get at is that a valorant map is an informational puzzle. To pick a comp that doesn't address specifics in the map is crazy. That's why I think the general idea about comp is misplaced and the execution is wrong. I think it's extremely difficult to argue with the premise that there is no point to have a meta comp if your talent consistently dies and leaves it unused.

But at the same time, you need to understand the agents you are asking your talent to play. I think because the current coaching system is gatekept by cronyism we actually don't get to see talent used in a way that optimizes efficiency because the knowledge level isn't there. And like I originally said, there's no textbook to go back to or back of the book to check your answers. So we're sort of at a stand still.

I'm just hoping at some point we get to see more coaches who have grown out of Valorant and maybe somewhere around year 7 or 8 we get a true coach without the influence of CS or other games. Valorant is so different and we see the failings in VCT because of it.

What valorant map doesn't need smokes ? I really don't see a map where smoke wont be played. Same for info, info is so mush important to manage space, (in LoL ward/info is basically what make a good support).

To be fair I kinda wish they are no meta comp, if smokes would have been balanced, it would have been amazing to have team that pick their agent based on what their teamate love "Oh you prefer Astra over Omen ? Good lets go Astra then", (That wouldn't shock me if on some team they where an OTP Astra and in other on they are an OTP Omen)

#232

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Anguibok [#231]
What valorant map doesn't need smokes ? I really don't see a map where smoke wont be played. Same for info, info is so mush important to manage space, (in LoL ward/info is basically what make a good support).

To be fair I kinda wish they are no meta comp, if smokes would have been balanced, it would have been amazing to have team that pick their agent based on what their teamate love "Oh you prefer Astra over Omen ? Good lets go Astra then", (That wouldn't shock me if on some team they where an OTP Astra and in other on they are an OTP Omen)

I would deconstruct why you need smokes. What does a smoke provide you? You might say, a smoke can stop a rush. Why?

Well a smoke provides you two things. Vision denial and "what's in the smoke." I think a lot of people think that smokes provide a layer of security. A smoke is easily defeated in so many fashions. Flash, another smoke, time, being in the smoke... It's not always your friend. I'm sure you've experienced a misplaced smoke or one that ended up getting you eliminated.

I guess what I'm trying to say is there is a heavy hand of influence from the past. That heavy hand has been mystified and codified by the passing of the torch to the next generation. We are more or less trapped in a bubble of the past with only the ability to see things through their lenses.

At some point a team is going to crush these common beliefs and the community is going to be puzzled. There's so much left to be discovered in this game that I predict at some point , a team will fully understand this and weaponize it.

#233

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Jmeister [#220]
I'm sorry BUT COM has been doing horrible since joining LEV, he's had so much opportunity to make impactful plays.. and he just fails.. I don't know if its his aim or game sense, but something ain't working. I foresee them dropping com. Because he just is not making moves.

You have to empathize with him. Completely new environment with no real allies. It's very hard to be the new guy. You just want to be super helpful and go along with the flow. Be seen as the guy who creates no problems and just wants to help.

Well what happens when that comes against something you want or do well? You're likely folding your hand because you know the environment you're in.

They'll figure it out though. They picked him up for a reason. Look at Pancada... they were super rocky for a long time. And then it just starts to work out.

#234

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metaph0ur [#232]
I would deconstruct why you need smokes. What does a smoke provide you? You might say, a smoke can stop a rush. Why?

Well a smoke provides you two things. Vision denial and "what's in the smoke." I think a lot of people think that smokes provide a layer of security. A smoke is easily defeated in so many fashions. Flash, another smoke, time, being in the smoke... It's not always your friend. I'm sure you've experienced a misplaced smoke or one that ended up getting you eliminated.

I guess what I'm trying to say is there is a heavy hand of influence from the past. That heavy hand has been mystified and codified by the passing of the torch to the next generation. We are more or less trapped in a bubble of the past with only the ability to see things through their lenses.

At some point a team is going to crush these common beliefs and the community is going to be puzzled. There's so much left to be discovered in this game that I predict at some point , a team will fully understand this and weaponize it.

If you ask me what is the point of a smoke would be first "a safeway to a plant"

I don't see anyway how a team could be viable without a smoker

#235

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Anguibok [#234]
If you ask me what is the point of a smoke would be first "a safeway to a plant"

I don't see anyway how a team could be viable without a smoker

Well once again, "a safeway to plant" is just another way to say the opponents can't see me. There are plenty of abilities that block vision. Phx Wall, Sage Wall, Viper Wall, Harbor Wall/Orb.

I truly think this article would be worth your time: https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/functional-fixedness

You truly need to do everything you can to escape what you've been told about Valorant and how you perceive it through other people's eyes. Just from a competitive viewpoint, you will always be behind the people who are viewing it for you. Try to push the boundaries of what you understand and see if they break.

#236