idk why i have to make this thread, but i have seen uncountable amounts of people asking "why use they/them if you're only 1 person?" or related "they is plural" comments in regards to nb people.
They can be plural, but its also singular.
take this sentence:
"someone dropped their wallet here. I should return it to them. They will want this back."
ZettGundam [#3]If im a landlord and my tenant is mad I'm not using they/them Im doubling their rent
what does this mean ZettGundam
ZettGundam [#3]If im a landlord and my tenant is mad I'm not using they/them Im doubling their rent
this was highkey not that funny
kapteN [#2]Agreed with you.
Just for argument's sake, there can be some confusion arising if you go "they are on A site" for example, if there is only one. "They have force bought", "they have an awp"
But that truly is the only scenario I can think of
even then you can just say clove, like you do for every other agent previous to them. Clove bought up, clove backsite etc
kapteN [#2]Agreed with you.
Just for argument's sake, there can be some confusion arising if you go "they are on A site" for example, if there is only one. "They have force bought", "they have an awp"
But that truly is the only scenario I can think of
idc what pronouns you use in game. Most of the time people are referring to the player, not the agent. If someone called Astra 'he's on B'. nobody would care. and even then i don't mind if people get Clove's pronouns wrong as long as it's not intentional. They're probably the first nb person in a lot of these people's 'lives' so it takes practice to learn these things.
Cheasle2 [#5]what does this mean ZettGundam
i thought it was a pretty easy joke to understand , more people = more rent
CarnageBTC [#12]So they is good looking? Bruh sounds so weird
You would say their coat is awesome or they are good looking in general reference. They/them are terms every English speaker uses all the damn time in singular tense, and it's so weird that as soon as people request to be referred to by they/them, people lose all human decency.
Tooker [#9]A lot of languages don't have this, which is why I get the confusion that some people have.
But the amount of people that just don't understand this function of English and have an incredibly strong opinion on it is really funny to me.
No the funny things is the who one who burn about the drama is also western people, almost asia people (the one who said because the translate is weird) doesn't care about this things and keep doing nothing
Tooker [#9]A lot of languages don't have this, which is why I get the confusion that some people have.
But the amount of people that just don't understand this function of English and have an incredibly strong opinion on it is really funny to me.
When I was kid
I learn they/them is about
I talk with one people to and pointing to another more than 1 people (which one group)
Ex :
"hey maria they said u pregnant"
"Who r they ??"
"Kimi and Alex".
It's also really weird when I said they/them to one person which when I was kid I already know they/them is more than one person
(Which also make me think is this bro schizo or what)
donkkomong [#10]Valorant viewers and watchers all around the world first language isn't English either so got to keep that in mind
true, but it's always fine to educate.
I'm mainly getting annoyed with burgermunchers being ignorant.
simo98 [#16]When I was kid
I learn they/them is about
I talk with one people to and pointing to another more than 1 people (which one group)
Ex :
"hey maria they said u pregnant"
"Who r they ??"
"Kimi and Alex".
It's also really weird when I said they/them to one person which when I was kid I already know they/them is more than one person
(Which also make me think is this bro schizo or what)
That's not wrong, just incomplete. They has also always been used as a gender neutral term when you are not familiar with the person you are talking about. "Someone left their backpack here. I hope they come back for it" is an example.
ZettGundam [#11]i thought it was a pretty easy joke to understand , more people = more rent
oh that's pretty funny
Neonfreak [#19]That's not wrong, just incomplete. They has also always been used as a gender neutral term when you are not familiar with the person you are talking about. "Someone left their backpack here. I hope they come back for it" is an example.
There's no about gender things till 2018 bro
How can be that incomplete
It's just western make more stuff to looks weird
I never see that backpack example
Even my friend Singaporean will be said
"Someone left their backpack here. I hope someone (or this guy or this girl) come back to take it"
This will be normal without u took they
because we already accepted they is more than 1 people.
It's will different if we see there's group take out "the someone" to the room
note : English is my 4nd language that I learn just because music
simo98 [#21]There's no about gender things till 2018 bro
How can be that incomplete
It's just western make more stuff to looks weird
I never see that backpack example
Even my friend Singaporean will be said
"Someone left their backpack here. I hope someone (or this guy or this girl) come back to take it"
This will be normal without u took they
because we already accepted they is more than 1 people.
It's will different if we see there's group take out "the someone" to the roomnote : English is my 4nd language that I learn just because music
The gender neutral them has existed in English literature for 100+ years. Respectfully, I don't know why you are arguing with me when its your 4th language and my first language. You can look it up if you want
Neonfreak [#24]The gender neutral them has existed in English literature for 100+ years. Respectfully, I don't know why you are arguing with me when its your 4th language and my first language. You can look it up if you want
Nope
It's keep looks weird to me
It's already sett in my head
kapteN [#2]Agreed with you.
Just for argument's sake, there can be some confusion arising if you go "they are on A site" for example, if there is only one. "They have force bought", "they have an awp"
But that truly is the only scenario I can think of
saying they are on A site or shes on A site or hes on A site is just bad comms lmao
when youre giving out a comm like this you should always specify the agent or the number of people
theres 2 on A site... (raze and fade)
or
Astras on A site
anytime someones uses pronouns in a round is just bad comms, always specific the agent
DjOOII_213 [#23]i dont get it. why force ppl to accept your opinions!
if someone want to stick to the traditional believe of having only 2 sexes (male/female), LET HIM BE.
if someone want to identify as a TREE, let him be!
go by what suits you and dont try to force your opinion on others!
it's not an opinion.
if my name is James, I'd expect you to call me James. If you called me something else I'd get pretty annoyed, especially if you weren't my friend.
being named James isn't an opinion. you can't say "I'm not going to call you James because in my opinion James isn't a name" you're just being stubborn and ignorant.
It's a scientific fact that some people are non-binary. If you don't accept that, you are choosing to be wrong.
Cheasle2 [#28]it's not an opinion.
if my name is James, I'd expect you to call me James. If you called me something else I'd get pretty annoyed, especially if you weren't my friend.
being named James isn't an opinion. you can't say "I'm not going to call you James because in my opinion James isn't a name" you're just being stubborn and ignorant.It's a scientific fact that some people are non-binary. If you don't accept that, you are choosing to be wrong.
1-people who knows you would all you 'James' . but ppl who nvr meet you before they are no supposed to know your name, so they will just say 'bro' or 'hey you' or anything to drag your attention and start the conversation!
so if someone who is named 'James' and got a beard and looks pretty masculine would be automatically called 'bro (male)'.
and if James did identify as a 'she' or anything else its completely normal for ppl to miss gender James when meeting him for the first time!
2- some countries (aka some cultures) recognise only 2 genders
3- your example isn't valid! a name isn't the same as a gender.
Cheasle2 [#28]it's not an opinion.
if my name is James, I'd expect you to call me James. If you called me something else I'd get pretty annoyed, especially if you weren't my friend.
being named James isn't an opinion. you can't say "I'm not going to call you James because in my opinion James isn't a name" you're just being stubborn and ignorant.It's a scientific fact that some people are non-binary. If you don't accept that, you are choosing to be wrong.
bad exemple from u m8. this gender shit thingy is like someone is clearly human but he insist on you to call him a lion, why would I be degenerate like him and accept his madness while I should throw the truth ? same thing ssomeone clearly a fkn man but he insist to call and identify him as a her/she, so we throw our rational thinking and morals away and comply to his madness? you guys really lost it i swear
MIKA-IL [#30]bad exemple from u m8. this gender shit thingy is like someone is clearly human but he insist on you to call him a lion, why would I be degenerate like him and accept his madness while I should throw the truth ? same thing ssomeone clearly a fkn man but he insist to call and identify him as a her/she, so we throw our rational thinking and morals away and comply to his madness? you guys really lost it i swear
valid
MIKA-IL [#30]bad exemple from u m8. this gender shit thingy is like someone is clearly human but he insist on you to call him a lion, why would I be degenerate like him and accept his madness while I should throw the truth ? same thing ssomeone clearly a fkn man but he insist to call and identify him as a her/she, so we throw our rational thinking and morals away and comply to his madness? you guys really lost it i swear
W Moroccan
Cheasle2 [#8]idc what pronouns you use in game. Most of the time people are referring to the player, not the agent. If someone called Astra 'he's on B'. nobody would care. and even then i don't mind if people get Clove's pronouns wrong as long as it's not intentional. They're probably the first nb person in a lot of these people's 'lives' so it takes practice to learn these things.
this is a valid point ive misgendered characters way before clove 😭
ALoKi007 [#37]"They" are not welcomed in my country 🗿🗿🗿🗿
“they” have been in every country in the world since the dawn of humanity
espeon [#39]“they” have been in every country in the world since the dawn of humanity
"They"at's not good 😭😭😭
smthlikeyou11 [#43]nah i just call every character in the game "he" lmfao like i call jett and raze players for example he and no one says anything.
I call clove a he and all of a sudden its a big problem
same, my native language is gender neutral so I just use he for everything in English. It's challenging having to assign he/she all the time.
siniota [#46]Westerners fighting over pronouns is the most 1st world problem.
LOL
fs cant believe this is even an argument
Shinxly [#44]don't you have to use "are" for plural?
usually, but "they" in this context is singular
Shinxly [#44]don't you have to use "are" for plural?
no? which school did you learn this in? lol
You translate "Te duci la cumparaturi?" as "Are you going grocery shopping?" There's no plurality involved in the entire phrase. Stop putting a bad image on Romanian education
ALoKi007 [#37]"They" are not welcomed in my country 🗿🗿🗿🗿
trust me they dont wanna go to your country. isnt your country well known for issues with rape?
siniota [#46]Westerners fighting over pronouns is the most 1st world problem.
LOL
fact bro they just know that no one talks about it in real life, so they find every opportunity to force it on people who don't care even if it's just a game.
siniota [#46]Westerners fighting over pronouns is the most 1st world problem.
LOL
sorry for not having to worry about poverty, war and famine 💀
also you act like this isn't an actual issue
siniota [#46]Westerners fighting over pronouns is the most 1st world problem.
LOL
first world problems dont mean they arent problems
Neonfreak [#24]The gender neutral them has existed in English literature for 100+ years. Respectfully, I don't know why you are arguing with me when its your 4th language and my first language. You can look it up if you want
try since 1300s lol, but these people are too dumb to know that
ALoKi007 [#37]"They" are not welcomed in my country 🗿🗿🗿🗿
You should let people know that "they" in your sentence means "foreign tourists women that get gangraped and beaten to death"
Cuz that's the only thing that would make your sentence make any sense
jkjkjk [#52]no? which school did you learn this in? lol
You translate "Te duci la cumparaturi?" as "Are you going grocery shopping?" There's no plurality involved in the entire phrase. Stop putting a bad image on Romanian education
for the record "you" is plural
romanian education didnt teach u enough
Cheasle2 [#28]it's not an opinion.
if my name is James, I'd expect you to call me James. If you called me something else I'd get pretty annoyed, especially if you weren't my friend.
being named James isn't an opinion. you can't say "I'm not going to call you James because in my opinion James isn't a name" you're just being stubborn and ignorant.It's a scientific fact that some people are non-binary. If you don't accept that, you are choosing to be wrong.
bs example
if my name is bigchairman12345, I'd expect you to call me that. If u cant, I will get annoyed. It's not an opinion, my name is bigchairman12345.
it's also a scientific fact that gender dysphoria is a mental illness, i can make a thread about it iyw
like if im a man and i want u to call me bigfoot, thats just complete bullshit lol
find a better example james
This shouldn't even be a conversation, it's a video game character in a tactical FPS game. People will call it whatever it's easier and comfortable in the midst of the round/play.
Either way, it's also astounding how many people fail basic English grammar or basic science knowledge, yet somehow found the means to obtain a device and post retarded takes on the internet.
Cheasle2 [#55]sorry for not having to worry about poverty, war and famine 💀
also you act like this isn't an actual issue
"actual issue" 💀💀💀
smthlikeyou11 [#59]for the record "you" is plural
romanian education didnt teach u enough
You're either a troll or a complete idiot... either way, what a waste of oxygen
Cheasle2 [#28]it's not an opinion.
if my name is James, I'd expect you to call me James. If you called me something else I'd get pretty annoyed, especially if you weren't my friend.
being named James isn't an opinion. you can't say "I'm not going to call you James because in my opinion James isn't a name" you're just being stubborn and ignorant.It's a scientific fact that some people are non-binary. If you don't accept that, you are choosing to be wrong.
also u gotta realize ur not the only person in this world lmfao
some countries dont accept other genders, just as some countries dont recognize other countries
just accept not everyone is gonna buy ur bullshit and move on
theres a reason why LBGTQ in some countries is punished by death (not saying that it is right, just an example)
jkjkjk [#64]You're either a troll or a complete idiot... either way, what a waste of oxygen
one google search will do
"you" is BOTH singlular AND plural
GhostKing44 [#57]try since 1300s lol, but these people are too dumb to know that
WE STILL TALK ABOUT ITT ??????
COME ON MAN
smthlikeyou11 [#65]also u gotta realize ur not the only person in this world lmfao
some countries dont accept other genders, just as some countries dont recognize other countries
just accept not everyone is gonna buy ur bullshit and move on
theres a reason why LBGTQ in some countries is punished by death (not saying that it is right, just an example)
the countries that don't accept other genders are bigoted and discriminatory. I will not accept that - they treat innocent people like subhumans and that is morally wrong from any perspective. I will not accept that.
smthlikeyou11 [#61]bs example
if my name is bigchairman12345, I'd expect you to call me that. If u cant, I will get annoyed. It's not an opinion, my name is bigchairman12345.
it's also a scientific fact that gender dysphoria is a mental illness, i can make a thread about it iywlike if im a man and i want u to call me bigfoot, thats just complete bullshit lol
find a better example james
gender dysphoria hasn't been a mental illness since 2013, when scientists and doctors actually researched it and understood it.
yungbasel [#63]"actual issue" 💀💀💀
discrimination is an actual issue. You wouldn't know that because you've never been discriminated your entire life.
Cheasle2 [#70]gender dysphoria hasn't been a mental illness since 2013, when scientists and doctors actually researched it and understood it.
gender dysphoria is considered a mental disorder rn
donkkomong [#10]Valorant viewers and watchers all around the world first language isn't English either so got to keep that in mind
see this is a genuinely understandable reason. like i can guess how it would work in CN verbally since he she it all sound the exact same, but like in writing/text i get how it might be a bit confusing since unlike english mandarin doesnt have a singular they equivalent. but like, once they have been informed and had it explained but STILL decide to be bigoted or say bullshit like "it's not a real thing"? that's just them being shitty. like accidentally misgendering clove i get, hell i have done it and i have to double check to make sure im using them sometimes, but outright refusing is just not it
Twentytwo [#41]Why don't we just call clove, clove instead of giving game characters pronouns?
Yeah, but this thread was made specifically against people who start hate discussions stemming from the fact that clove is nonbinary and why lgbtq is shit and what not.
Kei8 [#72]gender dysphoria is considered a mental disorder rn
can you link me a source pls id like to read into it more
Phamous [#73]I mean this video game so, Clove looks like a she so yeah. Not that serious.
I mean this video game so, Clove uses they/them pronouns so yeah. Not that serious.
jkjkjk [#62]This shouldn't even be a conversation, it's a video game character in a tactical FPS game. People will call it whatever it's easier and comfortable in the midst of the round/play.
Either way, it's also astounding how many people fail basic English grammar or basic science knowledge, yet somehow found the means to obtain a device and post retarded takes on the internet.
I agree with the first paragraph, but you should clarify which side you are on in the 2nd paragraph.
Cheasle2 [#76]can you link me a source pls id like to read into it more
https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK532313/
Cheasle2 [#77]I mean this video game so, Clove uses they/them pronouns so yeah. Not that serious.
shut up loser
Cheasle2 [#77]I mean this video game so, Clove uses they/them pronouns so yeah. Not that serious.
Can i ask something out of curiosity out of clove topic
why not just make other singular pronoun that refers to non binary person better than this singular plural fight.
Alas21 [#82]Can i ask something out of curiosity out of clove topic
why not just make other singular pronoun that refers to non binary person better than this singular plural fight.
Because in the english language the word “they” can be used as either singular or plural.
Alas21 [#82]Can i ask something out of curiosity out of clove topic
why not just make other singular pronoun that refers to non binary person better than this singular plural fight.
because if we made up a new word people would be even less likely to use it?
'they' has been singular and plural in English for hundreds of years anyway, no need to fix what isnt broken.
groomer [#81]shut up loser
name: groomer
Country: Albania
Registered: March 21, 2024
Last post: March 28, 2024 at 7:10 PM
Posts: 7
Kei8 [#80]https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK532313/
nowhere in that article does it say gender dysphoria is a mental disorder
Cheasle2 [#86]nowhere in that article does it say gender dysphoria is a mental disorder
Gender dysphoria (previously gender identity disorder), according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, is defined as a “marked incongruence between their experienced or expressed gender and the one they were assigned at birth.”
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders
Alr so here is my take on this. You can call clove whatever you want, and it is fine to call clove whatever you want as they are just a fictional character. However, you should not be making hate comments against nb people and people part of the lgbtq community or the idea itself. Also, you should not be giving hate to people who have deferring opinions as they were raised differently, and different countries have different social norms. Instead argue without making xenophobic/racist comments (this can go both sides) .
Kei8 [#87]Gender dysphoria (previously gender identity disorder), according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, is defined as a “marked incongruence between their experienced or expressed gender and the one they were assigned at birth.”
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders
that's just the definition of gender dysphoria, it was previously a disorder (which is says there) but isn't anymore.
Cheasle2 [#55]sorry for not having to worry about poverty, war and famine 💀
also you act like this isn't an actual issue
also you act like this isn't an actual issueIk discrimination is real but doing that for a video game char is far too much for me.
sorry for not having to worry about poverty, war and famineIts there in ur country too but you have greater "ACTUAL ISSUES" to worry about ig 🤷♂️.
And yes I am also sorry for not having to worry about a non-living things "PRONOUNS" & misgendering them.
Cheasle2 [#89]that's just the definition of gender dysphoria, it was previously a disorder (which is says there) but isn't anymore.
its still considered by the manual of mental disorders to be one
Ballsamolee [#88]Alr so here is my take on this. You can call clove whatever you want, and it is fine to call clove whatever you want as they are just a fictional character. However, you should not be making hate comments against nb people and people part of the lgbtq community or the idea itself. Also, you should not be giving hate to people who have deferring opinions as they were raised differently, and different countries have different social norms. Instead argue without making xenophobic/racist comments (this can go both sides) .
Also, you should not be giving hate to people who have deferring opinions as they were raised differently, and different countries have different social norms.
the societal norm in germany at a certain point in time with a certain failed painter
there is such a thing such as universal human rights.
Cheasle2 [#69]the countries that don't accept other genders are bigoted and discriminatory. I will not accept that - they treat innocent people like subhumans and that is morally wrong from any perspective. I will not accept that.
Unfortunately no one cares either u accepted it or not. There is nothing innocent about that too. Seek help and grow up.
smthlikeyou11 [#66]one google search will do
"you" is BOTH singlular AND plural
...which is exactly what they were saying so what are you trying to correct? Russian education didn't teach you enough
DjOOII_213 [#23]i dont get it. why force ppl to accept your opinions!
if someone want to stick to the traditional believe of having only 2 sexes (male/female), LET HIM BE.
if someone want to identify as a TREE, let him be!
go by what suits you and dont try to force your opinion on others!
this is where its at
j3bx5597 [#93]Also, you should not be giving hate to people who have deferring opinions as they were raised differently, and different countries have different social norms.
the societal norm in germany at a certain point in time with a certain failed painter
there is such a thing such as universal human rights.
Okay that’s true, but I meant you shouldn’t be hating the person who said it. Instead just argue with them on why you think your viewpoint is right.
Ballsamolee [#99]Okay that’s true, but I meant you shouldn’t be hating the person who said it. Instead just argue with them on why you think your viewpoint is right.
are humanitarian rights "correct" - and opposing them is considered "incorrect"
Neonfreak [#96]...which is exactly what they were saying so what are you trying to correct? Russian education didn't teach you enough
"Are you going grocery shopping?" There's no plurality involved in the entire phrase.
.....
Cheasle2 [#69]the countries that don't accept other genders are bigoted and discriminatory. I will not accept that - they treat innocent people like subhumans and that is morally wrong from any perspective. I will not accept that.
well guess what they dont care if u accept it or not
so do some of us
ur gonna have to deal with it
this is an online forum
not ur house
Cheasle2 [#71]discrimination is an actual issue. You wouldn't know that because you've never been discriminated your entire life.
its not discrimination LMFAO
its a mental disorder
Cheasle2 [#70]gender dysphoria hasn't been a mental illness since 2013, when scientists and doctors actually researched it and understood it.
or they got sick and tired of people and just gave up on them and let them be
solsolid [#92]Genuine question, why when referring to God, he is used instead of they? God is genderless, using they sounds more right by your definition.
speaking objectively, God is typically depicted as a male, most likely due to men creating the Bible and previous Abrahamic scriptures.
solsolid [#92]Genuine question, why when referring to God, he is used instead of they? God is genderless, using they sounds more right by your definition.
The Bible describes God as a "he." By his very word, we refer to him as such.
worsetbh [#6]this was highkey not that funny
18 people disagree wit you blud, its highkey funny for me
ur opinion tho
solsolid [#92]Genuine question, why when referring to God, he is used instead of they? God is genderless, using they sounds more right by your definition.
We usually just call him by name. Either God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit or any name that is valid
Shinxly [#45]same, my native language is gender neutral so I just use he for everything in English. It's challenging having to assign he/she all the time.
Same here we Indians usually say banda vhaape he
Enemy is there lmao aur call by agent name this shit doesn't affect us at all lmao
ALoKi007 [#37]"They" are not welcomed in my country 🗿🗿🗿🗿
Guys, guys you aren't using your brains. Just yapping and cussing won't do good on either side. We need facts. Here's a fact I would like to share: Fact
You guys aren't considering the Population factor.
GhostKing44 [#53]trust me they dont wanna go to your country. isnt your country well known for issues with rape?
Brainwashed Khalistani 🤡
jkjkjk [#58]You should let people know that "they" in your sentence means "foreign tourists women that get gangraped and beaten to death"
Cuz that's the only thing that would make your sentence make any sense
#110
smthlikeyou11 [#103]its not discrimination LMFAO
its a mental disorder
Finally found a sensible person 🗿
jkjkjk [#58]You should let people know that "they" in your sentence means "foreign tourists women that get gangraped and beaten to death"
Cuz that's the only thing that would make your sentence make any sense
you fucking dork provide some facts before talking kid
Neonfreak [#24]The gender neutral them has existed in English literature for 100+ years. Respectfully, I don't know why you are arguing with me when its your 4th language and my first language. You can look it up if you want
ah AMERICA
smthlikeyou11 [#103]its not discrimination LMFAO
its a mental disorder
source: it appeared to me in a dream
TheHardStuckImmortal [#119]source: it appeared to me in a dream
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/19/health/is-gender-dysphoria-mental-disorder-treatment-wellness/index.html#:~:text=Because%20gender%20dysphoria%20is%20included,a%20mental%20disorder%2C%20experts%20said.
i have many more proofs but im too lazy to argue with a brainwashed person
do some research first
dual000 [#118]US already failed in geography, biology, psychology, and english literature
rs
i cant talk because of politics but their con** and parlamen* are full of corru members lmfao
dont even get me started on the s**ate
smthlikeyou11 [#120]https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/19/health/is-gender-dysphoria-mental-disorder-treatment-wellness/index.html#:~:text=Because%20gender%20dysphoria%20is%20included,a%20mental%20disorder%2C%20experts%20said.
i have many more proofs but im too lazy to argue with a brainwashed person
do some research first
Read the entire article LMFAO.
"gender incongruence — having a gender identity that’s not the one assigned at birth — isn’t what makes gender dysphoria a mental disorder. Having clinically significant dysphoria around the incongruence is what makes it a disorder"
"Gender dysphoria’s inclusion in the DSM is also necessary for access to gender-affirming care — so for The Trevor Project’s DeChants, whether gender dysphoria is in the DSM is partly a pragmatic issue."
Even then linking a fking CNN article of all things is abysmal
TheHardStuckImmortal [#122]Read the entire article LMFAO.
"gender incongruence — having a gender identity that’s not the one assigned at birth — isn’t what makes gender dysphoria a mental disorder. Having clinically significant dysphoria around the incongruence is what makes it a disorder"
"Gender dysphoria’s inclusion in the DSM is also necessary for access to gender-affirming care — so for The Trevor Project’s DeChants, whether gender dysphoria is in the DSM is partly a pragmatic issue."
Even then linking a fking CNN article of all things is abysmal
ironic because CNN is a wonderful representation of what the western society as a whole is like
Having clinically significant dysphoria around the incongruence is what makes it a disorder"
so in other words i feel trapped in the wrong body
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK532313/
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms-causes/syc-20475255
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-48448804
some agree that it is a mental disorder, while some does not.
apparantly all the WESTERN media tends to be more on the side that it isnt because im searching in english and im assuming u dont want to read russian articles or any articles outside of english language
EMEA and pacific regions seem to lean on the other side
smthlikeyou11 [#121]rs
i cant talk because of politics but their con** and parlamen* are full of corru members lmfao
dont even get me started on the s**ate
This remind me of "Are you Chinese" & TikTok CEO
They say congr**s are the face of the people 🗿
ChowChow [#124]This remind me of "Are you Chinese" & TikTok CEO
They say congr**s are the face of the people 🗿
its just a glorified retirement home
dont even get me started on b**en
smthlikeyou11 [#123]ironic because CNN is a wonderful representation of what the western society as a whole is like
Having clinically significant dysphoria around the incongruence is what makes it a disorder"
so in other words i feel trapped in the wrong body
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK532313/
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms-causes/syc-20475255https://www.bbc.com/news/health-48448804
some agree that it is a mental disorder, while some does not.
apparantly all the WESTERN media tends to be more on the side that it isnt because im searching in english and im assuming u dont want to read russian articles or any articles outside of english language
EMEA and pacific regions seem to lean on the other side
There is no objective bias in Peer-Reviewed articles. Research gets conducted, the findings are double checked and then sent for peer review. In peer review the research is sent to anonymous researchers all over the world working in the similar field to eliminate that bias.
TheHardStuckImmortal [#126]There is no objective bias in Peer-Reviewed articles. Research gets conducted, the findings are double checked and then sent for peer review. In peer review the research is sent to anonymous researchers all over the world working in the similar field to eliminate that bias.
oh trust me there is lol
paid propaganda
remember when WHO advertised vaccine shots because they got payed by pfizer
ur too innocent
smthlikeyou11 [#123]ironic because CNN is a wonderful representation of what the western society as a whole is like
Having clinically significant dysphoria around the incongruence is what makes it a disorder"
so in other words i feel trapped in the wrong body
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK532313/
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms-causes/syc-20475255https://www.bbc.com/news/health-48448804
some agree that it is a mental disorder, while some does not.
apparantly all the WESTERN media tends to be more on the side that it isnt because im searching in english and im assuming u dont want to read russian articles or any articles outside of english language
EMEA and pacific regions seem to lean on the other side
Even then, classifying it as a mental disorder isnt bad. Depression is a mental disorder, anxiety is a mental disorder, anorexia is a mental disorder. So just because they are disorders, does that mean that those people who suffer from it are to be ignored or not considered for?
What do you think the treatment for gender dysmorphia is?
smthlikeyou11 [#127]oh trust me there is lol
paid propaganda
remember when WHO advertised vaccine shots because they got payed by pfizer
ur too innocent
is "oh trust me" your only argument or what?
TheHardStuckImmortal [#129]is "oh trust me" your only argument or what?
no need to trust me just do some actual research, or even use half of ur brain
western media is heavily influenced by money, wherever the money goes they go.
by classifying it as not a mental disorder they save shit tons of money on hormonal treatments and therapy
TheHardStuckImmortal [#128]Even then, classifying it as a mental disorder isnt bad. Depression is a mental disorder, anxiety is a mental disorder, anorexia is a mental disorder. So just because they are disorders, does that mean that those people who suffer from it are to be ignored or not considered for?
What do you think the treatment for gender dysmorphia is?
nope. they are NOT to be ignored and they are to be considered for, just as people who have depression, anxiety, or anorexia. you treat these mental disorders with the ultimate goal of getting rid of the disorder, which makes the person disorder free. Not by encouraging the disorder on.
the treatment is hormonal therapy. sucks that it costs a hefty for people who are financially poor
smthlikeyou11 [#130]no need to trust me just do some actual research, or even use half of ur brain
western media is heavily influenced by money, wherever the money goes they go.
by classifying it as not a mental disorder they save shit tons of money on hormonal treatments and therapy
All that you have said are anecdotes and nothing of substance. Hormonal treatments and therapy exists because they work. Even where im from (India) people with gender dysmorphia get treatment. This isnt some thing that became "trendy" recently but has rather existed since the 1950's
smthlikeyou11 [#131]nope. they are NOT to be ignored and they are to be considered for, just as people who have depression, anxiety, or anorexia. you treat these mental disorders with the ultimate goal of getting rid of the disorder, which makes the person disorder free. Not by encouraging the disorder on.
the treatment is hormonal therapy. sucks that it costs a hefty for people who are financially poor
you cannot get rid of clinically diagnosed depression or anxiety or anorexia, it can only be managed. The only effective treatment of gender dysmorphia is gender affirming care. There is no other alternative that positvelt affects the person. This is backed by years of data and statistics. Not random claims that you find online.
people who use the excuse of "its not in my native language so i dont care and i'll keep calling them she" or whatever are stupid as hell
a lot of languages have genders for objects and just because that isnt a thing in english doesnt mean im just going to ignore it and gender objects incorrectly because thats just wrong lmaoo
ALoKi007 [#111]Brainwashed Khalistani 🤡
so there wasnt recently a well known case of a woman being gangraped and then the cops forced the husband to take compensation money AND take a photo while doing so?
GhostKing44 [#136]so there wasnt recently a well known case of a woman being gangraped and then the cops forced the husband to take compensation money AND take a photo while doing so?
Those dumbfucks are everywhere. That's just a one in million case brother. Sorry I called you khalistani but man like we need facts bro. Again I am sorry.
solsolid [#92]Genuine question, why when referring to God, he is used instead of they? God is genderless, using they sounds more right by your definition.
i don't believe in god and i don't care
Granite [#107]18 people disagree wit you blud, its highkey funny for me
ur opinion tho
its an overused joke that makes no sense 😭 you dont even double the rent if there is 2 people living at one place
its also just straight up illegal
ALoKi007 [#116]you fucking dork provide some facts before talking kid
here you go idiot kiddo: https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/04/india/india-gang-rape-tourist-arrests-intl-hnk/index.html
what a scum of a human, having the guts to talk back, incredible
Ballsamolee [#79]I agree with the first paragraph, but you should clarify which side you are on in the 2nd paragraph.
it's pretty clear where the facts are, I don't see a need to clarify English grammar, there's elementary school for that, feel free to revisit it if you're interested
smthlikeyou11 [#66]one google search will do
"you" is BOTH singlular AND plural
you're just proving more and more that you're an idiot lmao..
where is the plural in "Te duci la cumparaturi?"
That was my point, to the romanian person posting.
You however, seem to lack a serious amount of brain cells. I suggest visiting a medical professional for immediate assistance.
jkjkjk [#144]you're just proving more and more that you're an idiot lmao..
where is the plural in "Te duci la cumparaturi?"
That was my point, to the romanian person posting.
You however, seem to lack a serious amount of brain cells. I suggest visiting a medical professional for immediate assistance.
ur just confusing me now
ill make things clear
the original poster, the one u were replying to, said: "Don't you have to use are for plural?" indicating that are is plural.
U then gave an example stating: Are you going grocery shopping? then stating that there is NO plurality in the phrase.
However, in the phrase "Are you going grocery shopping?" the "you" in that case is in plural, not singular form. the word "you" has both singular and plural forms.
Cheasle2 [#71]discrimination is an actual issue. You wouldn't know that because you've never been discriminated your entire life.
Most libtarded response
I'm black from Greece and lived in multiple countries.
What the FUCK do you know about discrimination and my experience?🤣🤣🤣🤣
HighlandDog [#139]just use she, clove looks like chick so where's the problem yall weirdos
The problem is Riot and lbgt propaganda force us to accept it. They don't give a f*ck about ideology difference across the world
smthlikeyou11 [#145]ur just confusing me now
ill make things clear
the original poster, the one u were replying to, said: "Don't you have to use are for plural?" indicating that are is plural.
U then gave an example stating: Are you going grocery shopping? then stating that there is NO plurality in the phrase.
However, in the phrase "Are you going grocery shopping?" the "you" in that case is in plural, not singular form. the word "you" has both singular and plural forms.
the word "you" has both singular and plural forms.
you reached the same conclusion that I was helping the original person I replied to figure out. Congrats.
The original person said: "don't you have to use "are" for plural?" -- which means that "are" can only be used in plural.
I'm not sure if your lack of english comprehension skills, or your lack of romanian knowledge, is what caused the confusion on your end, but I'm glad it is now solved.
Cheers
jkjkjk [#149]the word "you" has both singular and plural forms.
you reached the same conclusion that I was helping the original person I replied to figure out. Congrats.
The original person said: "don't you have to use "are" for plural?" -- which means that "are" can only be used in plural.
I'm not sure if your lack of english comprehension skills, or your lack of romanian knowledge, is what caused the confusion on your end, but I'm glad it is now solved.
Cheers
idk man ur wording was shady
seems to me u were referring to the word "you" being singular and still using the word "are"
u couldve phrased it a lot better🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
glad we are on the same page tho
ax0788 [#146]glad to see western culture and brainrot spreading around the world too! wish i had enough fks to give this delusion. living in lala land
im glad to see people around the world supporting human rights! i wish everyone respected everyone and treated them as equal humans!
Cezka000 [#148]The problem is Riot and lbgt propaganda force us to accept it. They don't give a f*ck about ideology difference across the world
you don't care about human rights in your country?
siniota [#90]also you act like this isn't an actual issueIk discrimination is real but doing that for a video game char is far too much for me.
sorry for not having to worry about poverty, war and famineIts there in ur country too but you have greater "ACTUAL ISSUES" to worry about ig 🤷♂️.
And yes I am also sorry for not having to worry about a non-living things "PRONOUNS" & misgendering them.
Its there in ur country too but you have greater "ACTUAL ISSUES" to worry about ig 🤷♂️.
yeah there are greater actual issues to worry about so why are you so dedicated to attempting to make this an issue?
Alas21 [#82]Can i ask something out of curiosity out of clove topic
why not just make other singular pronoun that refers to non binary person better than this singular plural fight.
they is singular and has been for centuries its not a fight. its just people who want to deny others basic respect because of their political indoctrination.
Cheasle2 [#89]that's just the definition of gender dysphoria, it was previously a disorder (which is says there) but isn't anymore.
you must be trolling... dysphoria is a type of disorder LOL
smthlikeyou11 [#150]idk man ur wording was shady
seems to me u were referring to the word "you" being singular and still using the word "are"
u couldve phrased it a lot better🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
glad we are on the same page tho
ok, that tells me that the lack of understand of romanian caused your confusion. My statement is in regards to the Romanian sentence and how it is translated into English, to prove the previous Romanian commentator that it can absolutely be used in non-plural form.
Also, you're confused about the translated English sentence. There's nothing indicating plural or singular in there. You cannot define "You" as one or the other without additional context. If you would've spent the time to translate the original sentence, you would've known that it was singular indeed. So your comment of being plural seem... nonsensical. You can't translate a sentence in Language A that presented a subject in singular form, and then expect Language B to not respect it, so to address your direct statement: no.. it cannot be plural, unless you're ignoring the source sentence, which would be ... you know, ignorant by definition.
I think your wording is not shady, but rather simple and not properly developed to be able to fully understand the connation of my message (nor its Romanian reference, vital to its meaning).
I'm sure that once you improve your English skills and if you revisit this convo, you'll figure out what I'm saying here.
Cheers
TheHardStuckImmortal [#134]you cannot get rid of clinically diagnosed depression or anxiety or anorexia, it can only be managed. The only effective treatment of gender dysmorphia is gender affirming care. There is no other alternative that positvelt affects the person. This is backed by years of data and statistics. Not random claims that you find online.
thats only if its terminal
GhostKing44 [#74]see this is a genuinely understandable reason. like i can guess how it would work in CN verbally since he she it all sound the exact same, but like in writing/text i get how it might be a bit confusing since unlike english mandarin doesnt have a singular they equivalent. but like, once they have been informed and had it explained but STILL decide to be bigoted or say bullshit like "it's not a real thing"? that's just them being shitty. like accidentally misgendering clove i get, hell i have done it and i have to double check to make sure im using them sometimes, but outright refusing is just not it
cry when someone misgender you! Clove doesn't need you to defend her ma'am
j3bx5597 [#151]im glad to see people around the world supporting human rights! i wish everyone respected everyone and treated them as equal humans!
This isn't human rights.. this is madness
yungbasel [#147]Most libtarded response
I'm black from Greece and lived in multiple countries.
What the FUCK do you know about discrimination and my experience?🤣🤣🤣🤣
so you agree discrimination is an issue, or has your life been too easy?
Cezka000 [#148]The problem is Riot and lbgt propaganda force us to accept it. They don't give a f*ck about ideology difference across the world
tell those weirdos politics only bring a headache, again if she looks female I'll refer as she/her, it's not like clove is sentience being.
they're just mad for the sake of being mad and making other people suffer through it, dragging society down with them. truly despicable group of people.
jkjkjk [#156]ok, that tells me that the lack of understand of romanian caused your confusion. My statement is in regards to the Romanian sentence and how it is translated into English, to prove the previous Romanian commentator that it can absolutely be used in non-plural form.
Also, you're confused about the translated English sentence. There's nothing indicating plural or singular in there. You cannot define "You" as one or the other without additional context. If you would've spent the time to translate the original sentence, you would've known that it was singular indeed. So your comment of being plural seem... nonsensical. You can't translate a sentence in Language A that presented a subject in singular form, and then expect Language B to not respect it, so to address your direct statement: no.. it cannot be plural, unless you're ignoring the source sentence, which would be ... you know, ignorant by definition.
I think your wording is not shady, but rather simple and not properly developed to be able to fully understand the connation of my message (nor its Romanian reference, vital to its meaning).
I'm sure that once you improve your English skills and if you revisit this convo, you'll figure out what I'm saying here.
Cheers
if u were talking about the romanian sentence then i definitely do not know im what im talking about, however the word "are" is always associated with plurality. Since the word "are' is used, you in this case becomes plural. hope this helps.
smthlikeyou11 [#166]if u were talking about the romanian sentence then i definitely do not know im what im talking about, however the word "are" is always associated with plurality. Since the word "are' is used, you in this case becomes plural. hope this helps.
however the word "are" is always associated with plurality. Since the word "are' is used, you in this case becomes plural.
This is incorrect. I suggest that you go back to school and brush up your English knowledge.
jkjkjk [#142]here you go idiot kiddo: https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/04/india/india-gang-rape-tourist-arrests-intl-hnk/index.html
what a scum of a human, having the guts to talk back, incredible
Dumbfuck in your previous comment you wrote "and beaten to death" and not to mention even in your country there are gangrapes. In bigger countries these fucking bitch ass rapists are definitely going to be present. What do you expect. Stop spread misleading info and go to school.
ax0788 [#146]glad to see western culture and brainrot spreading around the world too! wish i had enough fks to give this delusion. living in lala land
Just hope that these fs dont ruin other countries
envyz [#132]that is probably the only case you could use them, but they/them is used not relating to a specific gender aswell.
Retards downvoting 🤡
kapteN [#2]Agreed with you.
Just for argument's sake, there can be some confusion arising if you go "they are on A site" for example, if there is only one. "They have force bought", "they have an awp"
But that truly is the only scenario I can think of
hail no tf, they them is PLURAL if ur gonna say " they will want this back" that's plural its never singular if ur gonna use it like that just use he,she no they or them.
jkjkjk [#167]however the word "are" is always associated with plurality. Since the word "are' is used, you in this case becomes plural.
This is incorrect. I suggest that you go back to school and brush up your English knowledge.
well to my knowledge and understanding "are" is always associated with plural nouns and i cant really find any sources that tell me other wise, itd be kind for u to link me to one of those sources or provide me with an example
thanks
smthlikeyou11 [#172]well to my knowledge and understanding "are" is always associated with plural nouns and i cant really find any sources that tell me other wise, itd be kind for u to link me to one of those sources or provide me with an example
thanks
are you actually stupid?
Cheasle2 [#163]so you agree discrimination is an issue, or has your life been too easy?
Of course discrimination is an issue.
People choosing to call a female video game character "she" out of habit, on the other hand is not.
Sure, if they're dicks to someone in real life who prefers to be called "them". That is different.
jony1234512345 [#171]hail no tf, they them is PLURAL if ur gonna say " they will want this back" that's plural its never singular if ur gonna use it like that just use he,she no they or them.
What if u don’t know who dropped the wallet?
ALoKi007 [#168]Dumbfuck in your previous comment you wrote "and beaten to death" and not to mention even in your country there are gangrapes. In bigger countries these fucking bitch ass rapists are definitely going to be present. What do you expect. Stop spread misleading info and go to school.
86 a day….
ChowChow [#98]This is right and can be used as long as you don't know their gender.
But if you know their gender, you should use he/she.
it can be used even if you know their gender. I have always used they/them a ton before I ever knew what a queer person was 10+ years ago
Devanshhhhhh [#48]Why is this even a controversy I find it utterly funny not gonna lie.
chuds on the right wing are mad their video game character isnt a normal cis girl with big boobas
Ballsamolee [#75]Yeah, but this thread was made specifically against people who start hate discussions stemming from the fact that clove is nonbinary and why lgbtq is shit and what not.
It’s not hate my guy, it’s just common sense. From where I come, it’s either a he/she, and in my perspective Clove is a she.
ALoKi007 [#37]"They" are not welcomed in my country 🗿🗿🗿🗿
Me when I am bragging about living in a shithole
Bloxy [#180]It’s not hate my guy, it’s just common sense. From where I come, it’s either a he/she, and in my perspective Clove is a she.
That is what I am saying. You can call clove whatever you want, but you shouldn’t be spreading hate pertaining to lgbtq or nb.
yungbasel [#174]Of course discrimination is an issue.
People choosing to call a female video game character "she" out of habit, on the other hand is not.
Sure, if they're dicks to someone in real life who prefers to be called "them". That is different.
I don't care about Clove that much at all. They are just a video game character. I'm upset that people are intentionally using them as a way to be discriminatory.
I meant for this thread focused on irl people anyway.
stackk__ [#165]Is the clove voice actor non binary? I actually thought the lgbt was a myth
yes, Clove's voice actor is non-binary
Cheasle2 [#77]I mean this video game so, Clove uses they/them pronouns so yeah. Not that serious.
Do you lol. She looks like a great agent to me.
DjOOII_213 [#161]This isn't human rights.. this is madness
I'm glad Russia has a such great track record for human rights! They are the paragon country that everyone around the world looks to for inspiration!
j3bx5597 [#187]I'm glad Russia has a such great track record for human rights! They are the paragon country that everyone around the world looks to for inspiration!
i dont live in russia but at least they are doing SOME things right
having a non great track record for human rights does not coorolate, though it can be used for refrence
"human rights" is a thing that is defined.
A lot of countries dont agree that trans rights are human rights
it is human rights in america but not necessairly human rights in other countries
smthlikeyou11 [#188]i dont live in russia but at least they are doing SOME things right
having a non great track record for human rights does not coorolate, though it can be used for refrence
"human rights" is a thing that is defined.
A lot of countries dont agree that trans rights are human rights
it is human rights in america but not necessairly human rights in other countries
that's some bullshit right here, human rights are not a thing defined by the country, or at least it shouldn't.
cristiadu [#189]that's some bullshit right here, human rights are not a thing defined by the country, or at least it shouldn't.
well human rights are defined by the UN and i dont see anything regarding trans rights on there, UN has 5 major powers which can veto many other countries
donkkomong [#10]Valorant viewers and watchers all around the world first language isn't English either so got to keep that in mind
Sure, so of course it will take some getting used to. But those people are not willing to get used to it and develop are ignorant.
smthlikeyou11 [#188]i dont live in russia but at least they are doing SOME things right
having a non great track record for human rights does not coorolate, though it can be used for refrence
"human rights" is a thing that is defined.
A lot of countries dont agree that trans rights are human rights
it is human rights in america but not necessairly human rights in other countries
Russia ain't doing anything right buddy, even in the modern, post cold war era.
it does correlate. They've imprisoned so many foreign nationals on no basis whatsoever (https://www.wsj.com/world/russia/evan-gershkovichs-stolen-year-in-a-russian-jail-61234ec9?mod=evan_gershkovich_lead_pos2)
Fact: humans have rights
Assumption: trans = humans
therefore trans rights are human rights
if you don't agree that trans people are humans then that's uhh. literal definition of bigoted.
think back to the 1800s, where slaves were considered humans, and were treated and classified as sub human species.
countries do not determine human rights. They are there to guard them, and prevent them from being infringed upon. the people are always responsible for giving themselves rights.
smthlikeyou11 [#190]well human rights are defined by the UN and i dont see anything regarding trans rights on there, UN has 5 major powers which can veto many other countries
these rights are defined for the sake of clarity, the UN aren't giving any rights to any people, these people have rights inherently. Like at the moment of birth they literally have these rights without anyone needing to give these unalienable rights, also the UN has no power whatsoever.
j3bx5597 [#192]Russia ain't doing anything right buddy, even in the modern, post cold war era.
it does correlate. They've imprisoned so many foreign nationals on no basis whatsoever (https://www.wsj.com/world/russia/evan-gershkovichs-stolen-year-in-a-russian-jail-61234ec9?mod=evan_gershkovich_lead_pos2)Fact: humans have rights
Assumption: trans = humans
therefore trans rights are human rightsif you don't agree that trans people are humans then that's uhh. literal definition of bigoted.
think back to the 1800s, where slaves were considered humans, and were treated and classified as sub human species.countries do not determine human rights. They are there to guard them, and prevent them from being infringed upon. the people are always responsible for giving themselves rights.
????????????????/
humans have rights yes
however having a right to be trans is a different thing
Assumption: murderers have rights
there for murderer rights are human rights
having a right to be trans and trans rights being human rights is different
smthlikeyou11 [#194]????????????????/
humans have rights yes
however having a right to be trans is a different thing
Assumption: murderers have rights
there for murderer rights are human rights
having a right to be trans and trans rights being human rights is different
define different thing
Murderers had rights, but they lost them because they infringed upon other people's right to life
in addition, murders have certain rights as well. they have freedom to not be tortured, yeah in extenuating circumstances they ought to face the death penalty but that's different
trans people have not harmed anyone.
therefore they have equal human rights.
j3bx5597 [#193]these rights are defined for the sake of clarity, the UN aren't giving any rights to any people, these people have rights inherently. Like at the moment of birth they literally have these rights without anyone needing to give these unalienable rights, also the UN has no power whatsoever.
ur right. the UN is STATING what rights a human has
well who decides these people have rights? how do u know what rights a human has ingerently??? for example, Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of
working hours and periodic holidays with pay. How do I know that I inherently have that right from the moment which I was conceived???
There is a REASON why on the UN it says sex and not gender
j3bx5597 [#195]define different thing
Murderers had rights, but they lost them because they infringed upon other people's right to life
in addition, murders have certain rights as well. they have freedom to not be tortured, yeah in extenuating circumstances they ought to face the death penalty but that's differenttrans people have not harmed anyone.
therefore they have equal human rights.
yes they have equal human rights just as anybody else, however being trans is not a human right by definition.
also the murderder example is a bad example i just thought of it onthe fly
trans people dont have trans rights because trans rights never existed in the first place.
smthlikeyou11 [#196]ur right. the UN is STATING what rights a human has
well who decides these people have rights? how do u know what rights a human has ingerently??? for example, Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of
working hours and periodic holidays with pay. How do I know that I inherently have that right from the moment which I was conceived???
There is a REASON why on the UN it says sex and not gender
well who decides these people have rights? how do u know what rights a human has ingerently
i think you meant inherently
no one decides if a human has rights or notHow do I know that I inherently have that right from the moment which I was conceived???
you know this because it is fundamental to the identity of a human
if you are a human, you have human rightsFurthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs
rights aren't unique to each country
smthlikeyou11 [#197]yes they have equal human rights just as anybody else, however being trans is not a human right by definition.
also the murderder example is a bad example i just thought of it onthe fly
trans people dont have trans rights because trans rights never existed in the first place.
are you saying that trans aren't humans?
j3bx5597 [#198]well who decides these people have rights? how do u know what rights a human has ingerently
i think you meant inherently
no one decides if a human has rights or notHow do I know that I inherently have that right from the moment which I was conceived???
you know this because it is fundamental to the identity of a human
if you are a human, you have human rightsFurthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs
rights aren't unique to each country
its not unique, its universal across ALL countries that are recognized by the UN that nowhere does it say that there is a right to be free to choose what sexuality u identify as
smthlikeyou11 [#200]nope, they are just as human as we are
ok then your argument is that the act of being trans isn't a human right
which is a fallacy
because the act of identifying or being is a unalienable human right
a parallel would be identifying to a religion, or faith
thus a human is allowed to identify as a trans and have the right to do so
smthlikeyou11 [#197]yes they have equal human rights just as anybody else, however being trans is not a human right by definition.
also the murderder example is a bad example i just thought of it onthe fly
trans people dont have trans rights because trans rights never existed in the first place.
this is incorrect, gender dysphoria has existed since mankind
and i quote
Among the sexual depictions in Neolithic and Bronze Age drawings and figurines from the Mediterranean are, as one author describes it, a "third sex" human figure having female breasts and male genitals or without distinguishing sex characteristics
Talalay, Lauren E. (2005). "The Gendered Sea: Iconography, Gender, and Mediterranean Prehistory". The Archaeology of Mediterranean Prehistory. Blackwell. pp. 130–148, especially p. 136. ISBN 978-0-631-23267-4.
j3bx5597 [#202]ok then your argument is that the act of being trans isn't a human right
which is a fallacy
because the act of identifying or being is a unalienable human right
a parallel would be identifying to a religion, or faith
thus a human is allowed to identify as a trans and have the right to do so
that logic would be correct if it werent for the fact that it is SCIENTIFICALLY wrong.
beliving in a religon that science cannot disprove is fine.
denying facts proven by science is another thing.
2nd point. Lets say for example you are.... a Catholic, lets say. and for example i am an atheist. Just because you are a catholic DOES NOT mean I have to follow ur beliefs. U cant force me to call u a priest.
Same thing goes with trans. U can be trans, idc. Don't force me to call u by ur pronouns. Just as athesists can refuse to acknowledge religon, I can refuse to acknowldge trans people
smthlikeyou11 [#201]its not unique, its universal across ALL countries that are recognized by the UN that nowhere does it say that there is a right to be free to choose what sexuality u identify as
this also doesn't make sense
just because it is omitted doesn't mean you can't do something
the rights are there to prevent others from infringing upon them
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience
so you can identify as anything you want
the reason they dont explicitly mention sexuality is for fear of repercussion against LGBTQ from religious governments who would crack down harder on them, because its so contentious
j3bx5597 [#203]this is incorrect, gender dysphoria has existed since mankind
and i quoteAmong the sexual depictions in Neolithic and Bronze Age drawings and figurines from the Mediterranean are, as one author describes it, a "third sex" human figure having female breasts and male genitals or without distinguishing sex characteristics
Talalay, Lauren E. (2005). "The Gendered Sea: Iconography, Gender, and Mediterranean Prehistory". The Archaeology of Mediterranean Prehistory. Blackwell. pp. 130–148, especially p. 136. ISBN 978-0-631-23267-4.
idk which post this reply is replying to but gender dysphoria has been existing since a long time ago, i am not denying that fact
j3bx5597 [#205]this also doesn't make sense
just because it is omitted doesn't mean you can't do something
the rights are there to prevent others from infringing upon themEveryone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience
so you can identify as anything you want
the reason they dont explicitly mention sexuality is for fear of repercussion against LGBTQ from religious governments who would crack down harder on them, because its so contentious
u have freedom to think yes u can think u are a 10ft demigod monster but u are not.
the reason they dont explicitly mention sexuality is for fear of repercussion against LGBTQ from religious governments who would crack down harder on them, because its so contentious
u dont know that, do u? now ur just guessing
smthlikeyou11 [#204]that logic would be correct if it werent for the fact that it is SCIENTIFICALLY wrong.
beliving in a religon that science cannot disprove is fine.
denying facts proven by science is another thing.2nd point. Lets say for example you are.... a Catholic, lets say. and for example i am an atheist. Just because you are a catholic DOES NOT mean I have to follow ur beliefs. U cant force me to call u a priest.
Same thing goes with trans. U can be trans, idc. Don't force me to call u by ur pronouns. Just as athesists can refuse to acknowledge religon, I can refuse to acknowldge trans people
what does this mean? that logic would be correct if it werent for the fact that it is SCIENTIFICALLY wrong.
trans people do exist
gender dsyphoria does exist
yes but you aren't just refusing to acknowledge
you are actively discriminating
by your example:
lets assume that Catholics are eligible to be human, and enjoy human privilege
and atheists are not
in pari materia trans people ought to be able to exist and not be discriminated against
U can be trans, idc. Don't force me to call u by ur pronouns
this is discrimination no?
refusing to call black people by their name and instead opting to use N word is racism
similarly does this case not exist for trans people
and in fact in this case the prior pronouns aren't even a specific term, they just want to be respected and acknowledged
TLDR: its just a matter of respect
smthlikeyou11 [#207]u have freedom to think yes u can think u are a 10ft demigod monster but u are not.
the reason they dont explicitly mention sexuality is for fear of repercussion against LGBTQ from religious governments who would crack down harder on them, because its so contentious
u dont know that, do u? now ur just guessing
the first point is a strawman argument
arguendo (good faith arugment) no one says or does that. The reason people identify differently is because there is a legitimate condition called gender dysphoria (which you acknowledged) and have legitimate reason to identify differently
to your second point
I can't provide an article rn, but its a phenomenon observed in research done by
https://www.hrw.org/topic/lgbt-rights
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/
Check out Victor Madrigal-Borloz and Volker Türk if you wanna learn more about it
j3bx5597 [#208]what does this mean? that logic would be correct if it werent for the fact that it is SCIENTIFICALLY wrong.
trans people do exist
gender dsyphoria does existyes but you aren't just refusing to acknowledge
you are actively discriminating
by your example:
lets assume that Catholics are eligible to be human, and enjoy human privilege
and atheists are notin pari materia trans people ought to be able to exist and not be discriminated against
U can be trans, idc. Don't force me to call u by ur pronouns
this is discrimination no?refusing to call black people by their name and instead opting to use N word is racism
similarly does this case not exist for trans people
and in fact in this case the prior pronouns aren't even a specific term, they just want to be respected and acknowledgedTLDR: its just a matter of respect
unfortunately if i were to "respect" them, I would also be disrespecting my own moral beliefs, moral code of values, and culture. They would be disrespecting me by forcing me to adhere to their own values in a public space. I am not entitled to do so.
trans right is not a human right to begin with, although they exist they have no power over me to call them by their pronouns, nor can they force me by law.
i am not discriminating them, i am just treating them like a normal human
calling someone slurs is discriminating against
saying he or she is not.
I am by no means obligated to call u want pronouns u want, nor is there a law
j3bx5597 [#209]the first point is a strawman argument
arguendo (good faith arugment) no one says or does that. The reason people identify differently is because there is a legitimate condition called gender dysphoria (which you acknowledged) and have legitimate reason to identify differentlyto your second point
I can't provide an article rn, but its a phenomenon observed in research done by
https://www.hrw.org/topic/lgbt-rights
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/Check out Victor Madrigal-Borloz and Volker Türk if you wanna learn more about it
yes i acknowledge gender dysphoria is a thing
i also never said they CANT identify as whatever they choose to, but because that is not stated in the human rights, i can call them pronouns based on their biological sex and i wouldnt be treating them any less of a human
to ur 2nd pont
thats a PHENOMENON
that does not provide actual PROOF that UN doesnt want to do that
another human rights law btw: Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed
innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he
has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
unless u can somehow PROVE that they did it, they are innocent. U are treating them less than a human by saying otherwise.
smthlikeyou11 [#210]unfortunately if i were to "respect" them, I would also be disrespecting my own moral beliefs, moral code of values, and culture. They would be disrespecting me by forcing me to adhere to their own values in a public space. I am not entitled to do so.
trans right is not a human right to begin with, although they exist they have no power over me to call them by their pronouns, nor can they force me by law.
i am not discriminating them, i am just treating them like a normal human
calling someone slurs is discriminating against
saying he or she is not.
I am by no means obligated to call u want pronouns u want, nor is there a law
you haven't shared the basis of these moral beliefs, code of values, or culture is.
is it based on religion, logic etc?
They aren't forcing you to do anything
its literally just a formality, acknol
you say that you are treating them like a normal human, then there should be no difference between a trans person person and a cis person in your mind no?
the fact that there is a distinction is discrimination
if you were treating them like a normal human then you wouldn't be having this cognitive dissonance - between not wanting to discriminate and trying to stick to whatever cultural values you have
yeah you aren't obligated no, nor is anyone forcing you to. its just like a name. like if your name is Joe, and i keep calling you Gil-Dong, every time we meet its kinda weird/inconvenient
another thing.
if you've ever met a trans person, then you would know that the media blows it up way out of perception and regular trans people are chill
i grew up in a household where my environment was super bigoted and i used to not believe in the concept of a trans gender until i actually met someone who said: 'bro im just tryna live my life, just respect i am and we got no problem'
imho Streamers and such overblow the pronoun thing because less reasonable people are less likely to go with the flow quietly and more likely to discriminate/cause drama etc. Its literally just to show support
smthlikeyou11 [#211]yes i acknowledge gender dysphoria is a thing
i also never said they CANT identify as whatever they choose to, but because that is not stated in the human rights, i can call them pronouns based on their biological sex and i wouldnt be treating them any less of a humanto ur 2nd pont
thats a PHENOMENON
that does not provide actual PROOF that UN doesnt want to do that
another human rights law btw: Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed
innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he
has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
unless u can somehow PROVE that they did it, they are innocent. U are treating them less than a human by saying otherwise.
You are calling them something that they aren't how does that make sense?
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/24/world/europe/putin-transgender-transition-surgery-russia.html
Was done in response to US affirmation of LTBTQ rights which shows the point clear enough
j3bx5597 [#212]you haven't shared the basis of these moral beliefs, code of values, or culture is.
is it based on religion, logic etc?
They aren't forcing you to do anything
its literally just a formality, acknolyou say that you are treating them like a normal human, then there should be no difference between a trans person person and a cis person in your mind no?
the fact that there is a distinction is discrimination
if you were treating them like a normal human then you wouldn't be having this cognitive dissonance - between not wanting to discriminate and trying to stick to whatever cultural values you haveyeah you aren't obligated no, nor is anyone forcing you to. its just like a name. like if your name is Joe, and i keep calling you Gil-Dong, every time we meet its kinda weird/inconvenient
another thing.
if you've ever met a trans person, then you would know that the media blows it up way out of perception and regular trans people are chill
i grew up in a household where my environment was super bigoted and i used to not believe in the concept of a trans gender until i actually met someone who said: 'bro im just tryna live my life, just respect i am and we got no problem'imho Streamers and such overblow the pronoun thing because less reasonable people are less likely to go with the flow quietly and more likely to discriminate/cause drama etc. Its literally just to show support
I treat all trans people like normal humans- however there IS a difference between a cis person and a trans person. I am just finding the middle ground between me and them. If u are clearly a 6ft5 tall muscular bodybuilder with a full grown beard and a dick no im not going to call u a woman. There's a reason why a lot of states in the US have banned transgender people from participating in events that are different from their sex. Because if u call urself a woman, at the end of the day, you are still a man. Yes I have met and encountered many trans people in my life, and most of them respect my values and are ok with my calling them by their biological sex. However its the people that aren't trans that make such a big deal out of it.
The ONLY exception I CAN make, tho, is that they FULLY transitioned from a man to a woman or the other way around. That changes science because they have chemically supressed estrogen or testerostone, etc. Even though I believe it is morally wrong to change ur gender, that doesnt matter. Unless u remove ur dick or whatever the female equivalent of that is I am going to refer u as ur biological sex.
j3bx5597 [#213]You are calling them something that they aren't how does that make sense?
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/24/world/europe/putin-transgender-transition-surgery-russia.html
Was done in response to US affirmation of LTBTQ rights which shows the point clear enough
unfortunately i cannot access the article because i am not a subscriber, but ive already said this in my other reply.
Still does not change the fact that being trans isnt a human right so i have no obligation to acknowledge it, however surgeries is another thing and for the fact the vast majority of lbgtq people do not undergo surgery
also js for context i do not reside in russia
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