#1

MrHyphon

This applies to basically everything but this is what I thought of for valorant specifically

Prime: if ur performance is one of the best performances of all time then people will automatically put you in the conversation
Trophies: This category is either overvalued or undervalued by people, but the fact is the more trophies you win the more you put yourself apart from the rest
Consistency: even if your prime isn't one of the best of all time, you can still be the goat if your a top 4-5 player (in your role of course) for multiple years
Cultural Impact: pretty simple, people will know who you are even if they aren't as invested in the professional scene
Success over multiple teams: This shows that you can perform at the highest of highs even if a structure around you is constantly changing
Game Impact: even if your stats don't show it, when people watch you they can immediately recognize how good someone is
Big Game Impact/Clutch impact: similar to game to game impact, but in the biggest of moments in the times of desperate need. Whose gonna step up when we need it?
Innovation: Whose constantly shaping the game and finding the success?

I might be missing more but the first player to have 7 of these IS the undisputed goat

#2

jerry34

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every Goats2 player has at least 6 of these

#3

MrHyphon

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Who gonna tell him

#4

gamergirl

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drops 0.6 rating map against ascension team

#47

twigster001

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acting like the same ascension team isn't about to go to santiago with the first seed

#48

gamergirl

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nobody has qualified yet lol

#5

sw4gman

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insane how chronicult has none of these

#6

gamergirl

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he has #9 bro wtf.

#7

MrHyphon

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2.
Debatedly 5
If you specify in your role you could say 3

#8

foythvlr

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Prime: Demon1 probably

Trophies: Chronicle/Ethan

Consistency: Aspas

Cultural Impact: Tenz? I'd say Tenz

Success over multiple teams: Chronicle/Aspas (Tie or Small difference)/Sacy?/Ethan?

Game Impact: Aspas

Big Game Impact/Clutch impact: similar to game to game impact, but in the biggest of moments in the times of desperate need. Whose gonna step up when we need it? - Aspas

Innovation: Whose constantly shaping the game and finding the success? - That's probably a more complex one that demands more discussion as i think it is more long-term based

#10

gamergirl

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nobody has higher prime than champs 2025 aspas

registered two series in top 3 of kills at a champs event while sick

#12

foythvlr

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hes up there but demon1 on 2023 was a freak

he took a bottom feeder team with cum and HappyMealstio and carried them to world championship

#21

JonahPork

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Don’t forget to include jawgemid

#11

MrHyphon

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For me its
Prime: Yay
Trophies: Chronicle, Ethan
Consistency: Aspas but realistically there are so many canidates
Cultural Impact: Tenz, Aspas, Meteor
Success Over Multiple teams: Chronicle, Aspas, Sacy, Meteor, Ethan
Game Impact: Ethan, Sacy
Big Game Impact: Meteor
Innovation: Boaster

#15

foythvlr

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Prime yay is overrated he was great but it was a meta thing more than anything (so much he got chamber diffed by a lot of players after reykjavik)

Not putting aspas at least on big game impact is wild considering he carried MIBR to or on overtimes with NRG and DRX twice this champions alone

#17

MrHyphon

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Im talking about BIG BIG GAME impact,

Grand Finals and the Lower finals at every international event only

#23

foythvlr

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It still applies

he brought breeze to a overtime on champs finals 22 with a insane 3k on 11-12, got important kills on ascent including a vac kill on optics map point that helped bring to OT too, top fragged that final and was Riot's match MVP (there wasnt champions mvp at the time, but there was match MVP for the finals) on both BR and NA transmissions, leaded the 9-3 half vs FNC on lockin with Less (they were 2v5 on the other half), top rated and fragged vs DRX on lockin semifinals, topfragged and top rated on reykjavik 22 final, top fragged and top rated on his team on lowers vs EG champs 23, and the only time he truly underperformed was on lev champs run but that has its own reasons

#27

MrHyphon

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imo Big game moments are synonymous with the trophy pillar because when the lights are brightest, you step up and win, like Ethan vs Fnatic at champs. Unfortunately, Aspas did choke lockin

that 37k breeze game was wild though

#30

foythvlr

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he was literally a finals mvp bro LOL
he has a 1.57 rating and top fragged the lockin decider map how is that choking 😭 its rough when saadhak is disasterclassing and theres two rookies on your team shitting themselves

#31

MrHyphon

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During Bangkok T1 were down 2-7 on the map and 1-2 in maps, they looked completely dead

Who stepped up, 1v3'd for an ace, and swung momentum

#34

foythvlr

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Ok? How does that change what i said

#37

MrHyphon

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I just think Meteor is the bigger game player simple as that

continue thread →

#19

Zerphyr1

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how is everyone putting chron in success over multiple teams, the guy has legit only played on 2 teams like what??

#22

MrHyphon

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I mean he has been successful across multiple teams

#25

Zerphyr1

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u could put 30% of tier 1 players in this pillar.

#24

foythvlr

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I mean most players up there did? Aspas himself has been on only three teams lmao, Ethan has been on two, Sacy on three, etc

#26

AkameMNT

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How can u put aspas as most consistent after what he did in toronto???

#28

foythvlr

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One bad tournament doesn't undermine his other 6 great ones through 4 years

#29

AkameMNT

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There are more consistent players than aspas that didnt drop 0.5 rating at an event lol, even chron has a better average rating than aspas

#33

foythvlr

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Thats a outliar scenario and that's why it's so shocking. Aspas still has consistent and impressive results year after year with three different cores

#36

AkameMNT

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There are more consistent players that didnt drop 0.5 at any event like alfajer. But the most consistent one for me is leo (might be invalid cuz didnt play for that long)

#45

alienista1

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https://www.vlr.gg/stats/?event_group_id=45&region=all&min_rounds=1000&min_rating=1550&agent=all&map_id=all&timespan=all

https://www.vlr.gg/stats/?event_group_id=61&region=all&min_rounds=200&min_rating=1550&agent=all&map_id=all&timespan=all

https://www.vlr.gg/stats/?event_group_id=74&region=all&min_rounds=200&min_rating=1550&agent=all&map_id=all&timespan=all

Essas são as estatísticas da franquia dos últimos três anos. Compare-o com outros jogadores que você mencionou, como o Alfajer.

#43

alienista1

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errei

#69

glittering_yard

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Trophies is Ethan/Sacy

#9

BYUDSAdsa

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Aspas the GOAT

#13

Zerphyr1

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Consistency should be the highest btw

#14

MrHyphon

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its not in order at all

#16

Zerphyr1

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ngl i thought u were ranking them bc its a numbered list and the bottom ones are not very important but the first 3 are very important but i see now.

#18

MrHyphon

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Thats why they are pillars and not "top 8 goat categories"

#20

forklift2

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aspas is the goat bro come on watching him live is just something else

#32

sh1lll

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From this list Ethan might be the perfect candidate

#35

MrHyphon

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Trophies, Success across multiple teams, Game impact, big game impact, maybe innovation?

hes in the convo I can tell you that

#38

sh1lll

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100%, the only one I don't see him fully being in is Innovation but i feel like that's probably the hardest one because it's kind of a confusing category

#40

MrHyphon

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Boaster

#41

sh1lll

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im not sure about innovation but i can seee him for cultural impact 1000%

#44

MrHyphon

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I feel like Boaster is responsible for shaping the game and finding success though

#46

sh1lll

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ok fair, i can see that ,his style of play of slowing the round down and shit is innovative

#49

twigster001

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Prime: Demon1 / yay / aspas
Trophies: Ethan / Chronicle
Consistency: honestly way too many people fit into this to give it to one person
Cultural Impact: aspas / Chronicle
Success Over Multiple teams: Chronicle / Ethan / Aspas
Game Impact: Ethan / Meteor
Big game Impact: aspas
Innovation: Ethan

in conclusion
1: Ethan
2: Aspas
3: Chronicle

#50

MrHyphon

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ehhh I don't think Chronicle has Cultural Impact like Aspas Tenz or Boaster. When you play ranked and you say you play like Chronicle, it aint the same

#51

twigster001

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arguably tenz > chron for cultural impact, i just didnt want to say him since he's been retired for a bit
aspas > chron for cultural impact isn't crazy to say either

#52

MrHyphon

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yea

#53

Ross

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Respectfully, winning tournaments and trophies is the highest classification for how good a player is because they are able to win with multiple different people. It even comes back to the lebron and Jordan debate. Currently there is only one player that has won 2 champs. I think Ethan by default is the greatest rn, with HIGH POTENTIAL for others to surpass.

#54

my-dad-ate-my-toes

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Prime - yay
Trophies - Chronicle
Consistency - aspas
Cultural impact - Zmjjkk or TenZ honestly idk
Success over multiple teams - Ethan
Game impact - aspas
Big game impact - Ethan
Innovation - nAts

I don't think we can have this convo till 2030 lowkey

#55

Ross

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For chronicle with trophies, are you not differentiating or taking champs into higher regard?

#57

my-dad-ate-my-toes

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Yh in terms of practicality winning a Masters is about as difficult as winning a Champs so I value them equally

#56

MrHyphon

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OH SHIT I FORGOT ABOUT KANGKANG

#60

my-dad-ate-my-toes

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People often do when discussing the goat contention but I do think he'll be up there if he puts up anymore good international performances

#61

MrHyphon

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He has Cultural Impact and Big game impact but ill doubt that he would move outside of the EDG core

#58

jawn

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tenz has all of these, my goat

#62

MrHyphon

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Success over multiple teams?

#64

jawn

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he has won 2 trophies with 8 different people

#65

MrHyphon

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Ship of Theseus

#66

jawn

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you can't just reply with a paradox

#67

MrHyphon

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I think this is the exact same ship

#68

jawn

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you’re objectively wrong

#70

SadPandaBear

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its fundamentally two different teams just under the same org.

#59

Gutssz

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nAts is the perfect example

The most dominant non-duelist performance Masters Berlin 2021.
Destroyed the events with Gambit and made three internationals with Liquid with rookies in one year.
No other player has had as much influence on agents and maps as he has. Bind, Fracture, Viper, Cypher.
He was the first non-duelist great player.
He is the master of all Sentinel players, %99 of t2 Sentinel players learned the role from him.
He also has iconic weapon skin with gunbuddy, Prism Phantom Masters Winner.
He is handsome.

HE IS THE GOAT

answer is nAts easily.

#63

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Prime - yay, Leo
Trophies - Chronicle, Ethan
Consistency - aspas, Alfa
Cultural impact - TenZ, Boaster
Success over multiple teams - Chronicle, Ethan, Sacy, Meteor
Game impact - f0rsakeN
Big game impact - Ethan’s the first one I think of, but tbh every gf usually has someone who steps up
Innovation - Boaster, aspas

given how much Ethan struggled in 2024, I’d pick aspas as the goat now

#71

ScatterSen

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This post’s rubric screams: “chat please help me understand how to engage with the GOAT conversation.”

#72

MrHyphon

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Tutorial ahh thread

Pillars of GOAT

nAts is the perfect example