Hypocrisy of the flor case.

#1

Congo1

Funny how in other cases like Sinatra, flashback or Mazino a certain crowd was clamoring for evidence. Saying "innocent until proven guilty!!!".

Some of the same usernames are now perfectly fine destroying florescent without second thought or hesitation.

I personally am on the side of believing victims because i am very well aware of the dynamics in sexual harrassment and assault cases and know the statistics of how nigh impossible it is to prove such things in court and the potential repercussions for victims.

But these usernames i speak of only seem to care about finally being given a unanmious reason to hate on florescent (because she is trans). Having ammunition with which they can tear down the one they hate. They do not care about the rape victim. And that is disgusting.

And before you accuse me: Fuck Flor if she did that. Deserves all the public shaming.

EDIT: I am now realizing i am arguing with a bunch of teenagers. Waste of time.

#2

Uncleben

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The vast majority of rape accusations are true, and regardless we should be supporting the victim. Like you said though, it’s very funny that this only applies to flor and not to Sinatraa though.
What did Mazino do I thought he was just a gooner

#42

zhongZHI

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hey being objective here a big majority of us supported flashback when he was in the shit

#46

Uncleben

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The safest option is to not send any hate to the accused and support the alleged victim until more evidence comes out.
However, innocent until proven guilty is only for the law and court, and given circumstances and testimony I think it’s unlikely the victim is lying in this situation.

#85

Gerogorum

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Did flashback actually do it tho?

#95

geospliced

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Pretty sure it's different with him because he was still a minor when the whole shebang happened with him and what he did was different than what flor is accused of but I can't explain it properly.

edit: I'm 99% wrong don't listen to me

#104

DetonationFocusMeiy

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Flashback proven innocent for drx, dont spread fake information

#114

geospliced

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My apologies I was talking about these kinds of cases with a friend and probably mixed it up with another case :p
I wasn't meaning to cause any harm

#123

Upstander123

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from what I remember, flashback (essentially) got accused of something WAY out of proportion compared to what he actually did. Basically, the allegations of rape turned out to be partially mistranslated (as in, rape was the wrong word to use, but one person translated it that way and it spread like wildfire), the sex was consensual (but the issue is flashback allegedly ejaculated inside when he promised to pull out), and flashback was a minor when it was happening so it wasn't like he was pulling a Diddy as people were claiming. Now, he shoulda used protection and/or pulled out, BUT the act of sex itself was consensual and it was between two minors of the around same age.

#127

Congo1

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That is not point of the discussion. The point is the reaction of different people in the direct aftermath of the news when information was still very new and unclear. Meaning we didn't fully know and assess the situation yet.

How did people act during the time all these allegations first dropped

#131

Upstander123

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Oh, of course, I completely agree with your points. It is interesting to see the juxtaposition of who is defending flor vs sinaatra/flashback (I wouldn't really count Mazino along with the other two because the initial accusation for Mazino was kinda goofy). I was just providing context for Gerogorum since I assume he didn't know the extent of the flashback story. Personally, I prefer not to comment/form an opinion about stuff like this when it's fresh, since I prefer to listen to both sides and get a more nuanced POV that simply isn't possible when what are essentially nukes are getting thrown around, so any comment/reply I make is going to be akin to expanding on situations that already have blown past with a generally accepted consensus instead on current drama :P

#47

incidmoir

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They called him a cheater because he stroked
To some
OW character 😭😭😭

#76

proud_bandwagoners

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dawg what?

#3

Fluxcicide

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TBF we really don't care if she is trans or not ( or me personally ) , she used to shoot good until her temp retirement and everyone started hating on governor , I just want an apology form everyone for hating on governor + this is an esport scene there are people ona spectrum from racist to pedophiles u never know who they are and what they do.

#4

shrike-

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why would governor need an apology

sure flor abused someone but governor was astronomically bad

#7

Fluxcicide

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( I am joking vro ❤️)

#9

shrike-

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Mb gang

#10

guest17525

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Governor was not THAT bad.

#13

shrike-

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😬…

#124

Effluxi

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bro he died to his own tejo ult he was that bad

#26

Epicgamer69

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nah bro was just playing as a drone for flor

#8

Congo1

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why would you not be critical of governor? he was the worst player in the league?

#11

Fluxcicide

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Vro I am just joking vro

#20

SleepingSnorlax

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He wasn’t great enough but surely also doesn’t deserve double down on hate for being ass

#21

Fluxcicide

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Yea , I mean it just sucked for him he was good on turtle troopers ( when I watched ) but yea man smtimes time goes up and down

#5

Galactc

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Honestly it's just how it is wish people could just choose to not be selective and cruel

#6

Zephyros

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idk abt u but i seem to recall everybody shitting on sinatra as well when his accusations came out
overwatch sentinels and valorant all left him

#14

Congo1

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You are talking about some kind of hivemind. Thats not reality. The are different groups of people having different opinions and saying different things.

I am specifically speaking of the former sinatra and co defenders who seemingly abandonded their prinicples now that a target they disliked got hit.

#16

Uncleben

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There were so many people to this day that insist there was no evidence and that it was innocent until proven guilty or that Sinatraa was somehow proven innocent; those same people suddenly changed their mind when it comes to fluorescent tho

#93

mosthatedplayersRise

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Nah sentinels kept him signed on as a CC but everyone else… yea

#12

vexdia

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? everyone was shitting on sinatraa and his esports career is literally gone, he literally just streams now.

#17

Congo1

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there is no "everyone". Society is made up of different groups of people with different beliefes saying different things.

I am specifically speaking of the former sinatra and co defenders who seemingly abandonded their prinicples now that a target they disliked got hit.

#24

vexdia

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👨‍🦳

#32

Fluxcicide

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Oh nvvm

#37

Ghostjinn

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Then it works the other way too. There were equal numbers of people who didn't like sinatraa for his personality alone who were gunning for his career to be terminated. Notice the hypocrisy within your own line of argument before trying to apply hypocrisy to wider societal issues

#54

Congo1

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Who is saying "flor is innocent!". "innocent till proven guilty". "false accusations!"

No one. Thats the whole fucking point. That is why i am calling out the Sinatra defenders. The "beliveve the accused" crowd is very selective in the application of their principles of due process.

The "other side" is evidently (looking at twitter and reddit) not like that

#108

TwentySeven

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the fact that he can still stream and get a lot of viewers goes to prove you wrong. Theres still people defending him and supporting him
this forum alone has a bunch of incels supporting him

#119

KenH

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How are the supporters of Sinatraa incels?

#134

efweema

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sinatraa cooporated with police investigation and court dropped the case. If hes guilty hes in jail now. The ex got a new bf right after the shit happened and she didnt show up in the court

#129

lolapola

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yes, also there are def more of flor supporters rn than there were for sinatraa.

plus sinatraa didnt take a temp retirement beforehand of the accusations going public lol

#15

Frogger0_0

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you are saying the opposite
people were gunning for sinatraa's head and still are even after the prosecutor backed out

#18

Congo1

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there is no "people". Society is made up of different groups of people with different beliefs saying different things.

I am specifically speaking of the former sinatra and co defenders who seemingly abandonded their prinicples now that a target they disliked got hit.

#27

vexdia

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this mf is a cornball bro 🤣

#55

Congo1

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the fuck is that even supposed to mean dumbass.

#70

Ghostjinn

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I'd walk away from your setup if I were you, the more you type the dumber you look

#83

Congo1

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to whom? Goofs like you?

Shaping my behaviour by the opinions of some fools i shall not do.

#86

vexdia

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(edited cuz i felt bad)

#94

OliverQueen_

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you're goofy af take a break lil bro you're prolly sweating from all the replying you're doing

#74

sircartierrr

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hop off the alt flor.

#105

penpen

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u made an account just to comment LMAO

#19

ArterieX

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sinatraa one wasnt this bad lets be honest

#23

Congo1

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i am honest. And i am honestly saying youre wrong.

#30

ArterieX

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nah now ur just being biased sinatraa wasnt forcing someone even if they were bleeding or holding someone hostage untill they let them have sex , he also didnt change the password of the partner's phone and not let them contact their family

#35

Uncleben

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I don’t think it really matters man,both were accused of being abusive and of rape, which are both horrible crimes. Does we really need to rank it on a scale? Sinatraa’s accuser also said he forced her to keep going when she said no or made her have sex even when she was exhausted

#22

kk85

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I mean in some of the cases you mentioned the accused were innocent, it's a double edged sword really. You're a dick if you don't believe the victim, but sometimes malicious or crazy people will make up accusations to destroy the reputation of a person they don't like.

These "Certain crowds" are NPCs that cling onto a narrative and go with it. This is what terminally online people do. Even without hard evidence they will believe the accuser, even when allegations are disputed they still hold the person accountable. Same goes for the other way around. People can't think logically and wait for investigations to be done or for the situation to work itself out.

#28

Congo1

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youre not "innocent" if victims drop charges due to massive targeted harrasment.

Youre also not innocent if criminal court doesnt find you guilty. Courts job is to evaluate whether there is reason to punish you for a crime beyond reasonable doubt.

Its not civil court. You can just get away with it.

The idea that there is an epidemic of false accustions is a right wing propganda illusion created to stifle the achievements of the metoo movement. Does it happen sometimes? Sure. Peopl also get struck by lightning sometimes. But statistics are clear. There is a gigantic dark number of unreported sexual assault and harrassment cases that never get reported. The llarge majority of cases reported never lead to convictions. The only recourse that hes been on the rise is the court of public opinion that can at least lead to a modicum of justice and warning others from the danger someone presents

#39

guest17525

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youre not "innocent" if victims drop charges due to massive targeted harrasment.

Doesn't this work against your point? If Flor fans defend her hard or make this about transphobia then they're blurring the allegations from being credible.

#41

Uncleben

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I don’t think anyone is defending flor. Her fans are people that usually tend to support and believe the victim, and her haters who usually defend the accuser hate her because she’s trans.

I’ve already seen several people use this to say that all trans people are mentally ill or that it is expected of a trans person.

#107

penpen

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yup this is true i saw the comments on twitter. its so disappointing that its turned into a trans hate storm "finally i can hate flor without being criticised" "not all trans people are predators but somehow theyre always trans when it happens", "we already knew that trans are mentally ill" flors identity has nothing to do with what happened ppl do bad stuff no matter what they are. we never learn from the past when any allegations happen n its so sad. everyone immediately picks sides and just battle it out without considering that its ppls lives were dealing with

#43

Congo1

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if this "brick" person were to drop the accusations because people start massive hate campaigns against her then yes. You would be correct. That would be wrong

#31

Uncleben

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Innocent until guilty is related to law, so that legal action cannot be taken until guilt is proven beyond reasonable doubt
Especially with rape, 98% of accusations are real and the nature of the crime makes it difficult to prove; if there is a reasonable amount of evidence chances are it’s probably real

#25

NRGSUPERFAN

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sinaatra got crucified and no one cared about his side of the story. till this day hes still affected by what happened 4 years ago.

also mazino was never accused of rape but being a shitty bf lol. dont know why hes included in this list lol

#29

Congo1

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but fuck flor right?

We can decide she is the devil now but with sinatra no no we are innocent till proven guilty?

#40

Fluxcicide

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I think he did not say "fuck flor"

#45

Congo1

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then why does he defend them but does not mention flor?

Why exclude her?

#50

Fluxcicide

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I think all he try to say was "Sinatraa did not do that and yet he suffered"
Mind u Sinatraa's entire career was in riverside

In ur case flor is going through allat hate cause she is trans ( but u also say that if she is wrong fuck her )
And people are hating her cause she is trans, YOU are not ENTIRELY wrong ... Peoples belief vary but from what I see if it was anyone else everyone would still do the same thing that is hate on the guy regardless what gender ethnicity country he / she is from....

#48

SleepingSnorlax

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Stop being a shithead dude I have been seen everywhere being the defender of justice

#49

NRGSUPERFAN

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sinatraa never got the "innocent until proven guilty" treatment. whole community was against him, his ex was continuously stirring things up after the charges were dropped and riot launched a shitty investigation.

what is happening to flor happened to sinatraa as well but even worse. he was prob the most top 3 popular NA player at the time and everyone crucified him. certain people in the scene got cancelled for standing up to him.

but currently its just "what he said she said situation". should flor be treated as a r4pist as of right now? no but these situations never gets put forward to a judge resulting in people taking sides.

EDIT: I also dont think its fair to include mazino and flashback into this as a comparison seeing that mazino's stuff was never anything crazy and flashback got crucified by everyone on twitter as well. only reason why flashback isnt getting the same heat is due to DRX doing their due diligence and making a proper investigation on what happened.

no one gets the "innocent until proven guilty" treatment in valorant.

#111

penpen

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agreed n ppl never learn from the past either its so annoying bcos they dont realise were talking about serious things and ppls lives n then they proceed to take sides and argue day and night usually when we dont know the full picture. like everything they just take the piss with it. ppl also come to the wrong conclusions when these things happen like dropping cases doesnt always mean it was fake, releasing information out the public when it happened a while ago saying things like "why talk about it now it happened X months/years ago" time doesnt discredit it at all. it takes time to put all of it together and deal with it whilst also dealing with life. ppl need to handle these situations with care.

#33

loapoarg

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LoL PRX fangirls nearly destroyed Fb's career
DRX supported him otherwise he was for wolves

#34

Fluxcicide

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Oh flashback

#36

ArterieX

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what did flashback do can i get a TLDR or Links for the matter ?

#38

Fluxcicide

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I think it was an assault too
https://www.vlr.gg/379750/flashback-scandal-breaking-news
There ya go

#87

vanssr

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Prx fangirl I just heard this rn

#101

loapoarg

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Go to Jing mods and smthing gf and ask them

#44

1One1

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So, we need to follow her norm value/ideology to encourage trans rather than follow our ideology?
How is that acceptable? Some country/religion don't accept that and they force to accept trans?

#51

Congo1

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yes. Nobody forces you to be trans lol. Just to let them live their life in peace.

If you think allowing people to live their lives without harrassment and attacks then you are indeed the problem. And the "culture" is the problem too.

Forget trans. Apply this principle to anything. Foreign migrants, people of other religions, people of other skin colour, people from other cultures, people with other sexualities.

If you cant let people live their lives in peace because they are different that is morally wrong

#52

Fluxcicide

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How is "culture" a problem??? People may or may not like something that does not align with their ideas , this is NOT entirely a cultures fault?

#60

Congo1

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if a culture encourages the scrutiny and opression of people just for being different then the culture has problematic elements to it and needs to evolve.

We can have different opinons on whether to bow or shake hands. Whether we are more individualistic or collectivistic. What we prefer to eat and what our table manners and norms are.

I dont think denying people the right to a peaceful existence is something we can just "have different opinions" about.

#72

Tomczi

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"if a culture encourages the scrutiny and opression of people just for being different" can u name me those "cultures"?

#73

Fluxcicide

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Yes people have to be happy yes people can be whatever the fuck they want to be ...

"Culture" encouraged scrutiny and oppression until people realised it was time to break the norms ... Alot changed since then

The problems occurs when u try to FORCE ur agenda with the common people...and then tell they don't accept it?

#56

incidmoir

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I mean if they force u to call “pronouns “ and if it doesnt align with my beliefs im not gonna follow it and they should respect it no?

#57

Rakooon

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No you see, if you don't align your worldview to theirs you're a bigot and transphobic.

#61

incidmoir

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Ikr

#96

Spectral_

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"Pronouns" are not a belief, they're just part of language

#130

lolapola

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people were taught he & she in schools as pronouns for their english classes, not the other shit..

here come the downvotes

#135

Spectral_

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for their english classes

lmao

#69

Tomczi

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"nobody forces you to be trans lol" they are many people that want people to be trans for some reason so its
definitely not "nobody" also wdym by "culture" is the problem? People will dislike certain people regardless of their "culture" that's just how It is

#97

Spectral_

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Name one person who forced you to be trans

#98

buuhzar

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how bout children of celebrities

#53

bladaaa

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wa is there any evidence like at all

#59

Fluxcicide

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Not really everyone just waiting for America to wake up

#91

SudokuDude

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lel they removed my comment. I didn't even discriminate trans people. Just said no one should give two shits who they are or what they are in Valorant. Outside of that is a different thing. Although, the helicopter line was messed up. I'll admit that. Oh well.

#109

Fluxcicide

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Lmfao, u can be identified as an helicopter , the main point is most of the crowd does not give a FUCK

#110

SudokuDude

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yeah but Riot won't tolerate any form of words XD but yes at the end of the day no one really cares. just hyping off of drama. Funny how it took over a year to speak up on this alleged rape.

#112

penpen

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bcos things take time to deal with it? it always happens in many cases ppl dont realise the things theyve been through until after some time or finally breaking off with that person. theres no reason to be a dick about it bcos its two ppls lives. youre further proving the point that ppl dont take the cases like these seriously and take the piss at any moment.

#113

SudokuDude

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I don't go around calling someone a rapist without hearing the full story. If there's more than texts, I'll believe it. You're right it was a bit harsh but that doesn't change the timing of this shit.

#115

penpen

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no ofc not but ppl have this misconception of "what took you so long to come out with it" shit takes time to deal with n doesnt change the validity of anything. we dont know the full picture of when they stopped talking or anything

#116

SudokuDude

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That's true. It did take years for people on another incident like Dan Schneider, although I already knew he was guilty cuz of the actual evidence. But yeah I shouldn't discredit the timing like that my bad. Just annoyed at how people jump to conclusions.

#117

penpen

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i agree 100%. ppl jump to either side without actually hearing the full story and thats what annoys me the most. and this one doesnt have evidence outside of what someone has said n thats it. ppl are using it to be purposefully transphobic n thats not right when that has nothing to do with what happened

continue thread →

#58

jiancik

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Cmiiw, Didn't alot of caster refuse to cast when sinatraa got accused? I wonder if those people would still cast when flor playing, would they get called homophobic/transphobic or not?

#63

incidmoir

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Flor “retired”

#75

jiancik

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I thought flor would comeback since the vlr post/article was saying theres possibility flor returning to competition in the future, I guess this would nail the coffin if that's true

#65

Congo1

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I doubt Apeks would even let her play at this point if she was still signed.

Regardless, dont create a fictional scenario that hasnt happened just so you get mad about it. We will probably never know. I doubt Flor is returning to Valorant. Her community is not as forgiving about these things as sinatras.

#88

gutterslugs

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you just reminded me of pwr bttm rip their careers

#62

FlygonFC

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why are u defending a alleged rapist?

#66

Congo1

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read he last sentence, moron.

#67

FlygonFC

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im not the moron u use the flor case to make this weird and about people defending the others even tho they all got hated and u want people to defend flor so u are defending her u weirdo

#78

Congo1

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you are so dumb you must struggle to breathe.

Its looking bad for Flor. Lets see how the next few days go. If there doesnt come anything out that can refute or disprove this in a convincing manner then i will say "fuck Flor" forever.

I am not the one using shit. The pieces of shit that dont even care about sexual assault and rape are suddenly switching up to live out their transphobia. Before it was "innocent till proven guilty for my alpha king sinatra!!!". Now its "Fuck flor, he is the devil. him him him."

I will GLADLY tell flor to fuck off. I actually care about victims getting their justice. If you think i wont "drop" flor because she is a "trans icon" or some shit then you are soooooo, sooo wrong. I will condem her, shame her, demand her to leave the scene whenever some org wants to sign her.

But the usernames who are obvious transphobes who dont give a fuck about the victim and only love the opportunity to dunk on flor will probably make some sweeping statements accusing trans people as a whole to be sex offenders, try to discredit "them", an unspecified group of "wokes", to be a "hypocritical cabal" conspiring to defend the pesky trans person of her (they would say "his" here) crimes.

You right now for example are critical of me for "making this weird about people defending the others" (implying that defending them is the right and moral things to do) and at the same time are shaming me for "trying to defend Flor". So what is it chief? Defend the accused or not? Why so selective?

#80

FlygonFC

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ALLAT 🤣

#82

Uncleben

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There’s no point, people don’t understand your logic and have an agenda to push, you won’t make them see their own hypocrisy. Try saying this again once people cool down a bit, right now they think ur supporting flor for some reason.

#90

Congo1

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Yes. They are not interested in genuine, open minded conversation. And i disagree, i dont think this will change with time.

VLR has a signifcant amount of teenagers active here and its hard to engage them on a more serious in depth level. The way of thinking and manner of discussion doesnt lead to postive outcomes. The maturity just isnt there.

#102

archetype

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there's no point running up and down trying to defend your perspective man. sometimes its not worth continuing discussions with people who fail to see your POV. the vast majority of people on this site are young teenagers lol

just move on if theyre not getting your point. thats what i do. not worth your time.

#92

SudokuDude

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why not? Flor hasn't been proved of being one yet. Once again, this shows that no matter what happens, there are people like you just downplaying and writing off someone as guilty without the full story....

#64

Monsteiur

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I will not say anything till there is clear as day evidences. I talk shit about sinatra once when there wasn't clear evidence, and looking back, really felt bad to see his career in the dust

#68

sircartierrr

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hop off the alt florescent we know its you

#81

Congo1

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A flor alt would try to defend herself and discredit the accuser.

Why the fuck would she care what people yap about sinatra?

Think for a second before you speak.

#120

sircartierrr

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sure thing flor

#71

FlygonFC

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LOOK AT THIS WEIRDO 😂👆 USING RAPE ALLEGATION TO PUSH SOME DUMB NARRATIVES

#84

Congo1

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why type like some ai bot moron about serious topics? Where is your maturity you teenage boy.

#77

tessasz

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this is true but in any case i wouldnt be on sides defending or blaming people because of the seriousness of this topic

#79

Congo1

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i am not defending flor. She shall get the fate she deserves. Time will tell i suppose

#89

tessasz

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yeah i know, what ur saying is true but if the allegations against her are also true then it's pretty fucked up both for her and the trans community in valorant

#99

stellaresca

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sinatraa is innocent dawg, his ex went to onlyfans after failing to get his money

#100

Uncleben

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Sex workers can get SAed, you know?

#106

stellaresca

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i dont recall the ex doing SW before the drama, idk

neeways my goat is proven innocent

#103

SuperRoss

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what a retarded post

the backlash was there for all of those, and guess what?
sinatraa wasn't guilty
flashback wasn't guilty

mazino wasn't even accused of doing anything like that

i'd be more than happy to find out flor isn't guilty too

#121

Yeheu

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Funny how in other cases like Sinatra, flashback or Mazino a certain crowd was clamoring for evidence. Saying "innocent until proven guilty!!!".

First off that's a lie. Majority of people were asking for sinatra head, literally giving death threats. So come off your high horse and look at reality

The simple truth is a majority of the accuser / defender of sinatraa are now the defender / accuser of flor. The tables have now been turned. And honestly as a Sinatra defender it's great when the shoe is on the other foot now

#125

Congo1

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You are delusional of you think anybody is defending Flor from the allegations.

That is the entire point of this post. To point out this hypocrisy

You do not understand what I am saying. I don't want to copy the same answer to this very same reply I have gotten 100 times already. Check #14 or #78 for and explanation.

#128

Congo1

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.

#122

SunnyFromVLR

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Saying sinatraa got off easy is straight up bs lmao
Look at how that one accusation ruined his whole career. Bro was blacklisted from riot and valorant and no team wanted to be associated with him.

Now I might sound biased but you can just look at someone and know from their personality and the way they react and behave on the internet if they are evil or good.
He broke down on stream and even cried cus everyone around him started pushing him away. Now idk 3+ years later there still isnt any concrete proof and the court case is dropped but he has to live with that shit and ppl that remind him of that shit till this day.

#126

Congo1

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Buddy. Regardless of the topic... If you operate the way you describe in paragraph 2 you will be burnt many many times in life. That is simply naive.

#132

lolapola

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the only one naive is u buddy

#133

Congo1

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why is that?