chron ethan aspas

#1

marxlboro

considering their achievements/performance throughout all these years, how would you rank this top 3 val players in the goat convo and why

aspas, chron and ethan

these 3 players compose top 3 oat but i think its pretty close between them

aspas 1x champions tier s+ performance throughout the years in tier 1

chronicle 3x vct trophies no champions tier s performance (did it with 2 different teams)

ethan 2x champions (with 2 different teams) regular at its best but the trophies talk for themselves

if you think other player should be in top 3 ure delusional

#2

Congo1

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ethan is way behind on stats.

aspas is way behind on trophies.

Chronicle has both

#5

Vyantic

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😭✌

#7

Marii2

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Chronicle does not have both, Look at his stats for his trophies on fnatic

#42

bay_z

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1.10 and 1.19 supposed to be bad ratings?

#52

Marii2

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And what were Leo and alfas stats

#8

osamason

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chronicuck will never be close to both of them

#9

gamergirl

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surely chronicle has been the best player for his team at 3 international events then

can u name them?

#12

cirruss

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surely aspas wasn't the lowest rated player on his team for his trophy...

#15

gamergirl

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surely he wasnt negative in multiple grand finals..

aspas had the most kills on his team and won the mvp for that finals btw lol

#19

cirruss

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i mean chron went +28 for his first trophy

#23

sentinelmain377

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no need to interact with gamergirl. blinded by bias

#27

cirruss

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i mean yeah lol, they also just stopped engaging as soon as u bring it up... sure chron had bad performances at champs 23 and mid performances at lock in and tokyo but he is By far the biggest reason that gmb won berlin

#34

sentinelmain377

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You guys are just considering/comparing their performances when they won trophies (only a few out of the many events they played). If you look at all time performances (every international event), Chronicle has better stats than Aspas (I'm too lazy to find the post where I showed this).

#41

gamergirl

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look man, if you be honest about chronicles career, list all the international events he's attended and then list the events where hes the best player on his team, now do that with aspas

you simply cannot call urself the greatest when you're not even usually the greatest on roster, he isnt man,

ill give u champs 2021, thats my only thing, if you can come to me and say im wrong chronicle is usually the best player on his team, ill admit hes the goat, but you cant, because even if he's amazing at berlin, nats was better in the important matches vs VS and G2, tokyo and lock in was easily leo/alfa, champs 2023 was derke alfa leo, shanghai everyoen was shit but derke/alfa, champions 2024 derke better, alfa was technically better at toronto, but i wouldn't be mad if u said chron is better here. kaajak CARRIED at champs alfa was better too once u take away the easy matches chronicle farmed..

so im asking u to read what i say and make your case that chronicle is truly great, and not just a top 10 player, that has been surrounded by other top 10 players for majority of his career.. like seriously tell me im wrong about anything i said here

edit: not to mention in 2022 sheydos and nats were better the entire year, at every event M3C played

#47

cirruss

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i mean tbh i think val is way too young to have a clear GOAT because not only are both of these guys still playing but their careers are so different
chron is top 3, whether or not you think top 1 is fair. i'm kinda in the middle, i think they're pretty close, this year will really be the first year where we see who gets the edge

top 10 is where it gets pretty contentious. i think there's a clear gap in between someone like chron vs, let's say, tenz, who had one year as a top 3-5 player, two events where he was the best, and two whole years where he wasn't good, vs chron who has made a career out of consistency with some lowlights but also has been dependant or an x factor for most of his career

#29

gamergirl

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blinded by bias and its just chronicle never being the best player on his team

im happy if you said leo is the goat btw

#35

cirruss

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if he still played now i think it wouldn't be a contest but prime for prime i think he's probably the most complete player

#24

gamergirl

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sure chron peaked in 2021, i agree, thats when he was the second best player on his team, since then he's been 3rd or 4th usually so good times for chron

#30

cirruss

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you're on your knees defending a champs 2022 performance where he was consensus the worst player on his team

#33

gamergirl

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did u watch the series? he won mvp for his performance lol

usually u dont give mvp to the "consensus worst player"

#36

cirruss

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series mvp =/= event mvp when less sacy and pancada were all in their prime

#38

uwukitten

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except the mvp is a meaningless award without strict standards, he was unarguably worse than pancada/sacy/less over the whole tournament

#40

sentinelmain377

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"mvp" isnt a stat and is clearly not based on tournament stats with some of the winners we've gotten.

#43

bay_z

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Well no shit Asspiss can't even make grand finals 💀

#10

marxlboro

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i kinda agree but his performance doesnt match with aspas (no cope, he has been consistent, but its not the same level as eric) and his trophies doesnt have the same weight as ethans, but fair point

#3

Divine_Thunder

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ethan might rank 5-6. trophies cant talk for themselves when u are not consistent like the above 2.

#22

marxlboro

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erm, i dont really like him but he did it with 2 different rosters after struggling as fuck with fns and demon1, plus at least for now, hes the only one with 2 champions tittle

#54

Divine_Thunder

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It was ch0t's fault

#55

marxlboro

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demon1 couldnt satchel, fns couldnt aim, it was everybodys fault

#68

notnorte

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i mean whos even consistently at events to a point where they can be considered top 5 anyway? meteor? alfajer?

#81

Diffractiongrating

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Alfa is top 5
Derke too (probably?)
Meteor/Tenz/Sacy /Forsaken just outside (Meteor is probably the closest from Pacific to crack the top 5)

#4

dayumwtf

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Ethan is 3rd in this convo even though I love him

#6

cirruss

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chron > aspas >>>>>>>>>>> ethan

#11

asunaluvr

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erm cryo #1

#13

glittering_yard

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Where is Chronicle's Champions trophy?

#14

osamason

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aspas
ethan

gap

chronicuck

#16

Flame4Game

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aspas > Chron > Ethan?

#17

Elby56

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Chronicle
aspas
--gap--
Ethan

Ethan is not top 3 OAT, there's 3-5 players inbetween him and those two.

#45

Wolfed

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who is inbetween

#66

Elby56

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Boaster, Derke, Alfajer at least. You could also argue Jinggg, naTs and maybee f0rsaken.

#67

marxlboro

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ethans deeds surpass them all (not glazing but are 2 champions tittle with 2 different rosters while igling)

#69

notnorte

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meteor unironically gaps everyone you just listed

#70

marxlboro

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meteor gaps alfajer? im not sure bro...

#72

notnorte

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thats the only arguable one, aspas chron meteor alfa top 4 everyone else you listed cannot be in that convo

#73

marxlboro

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he listed, but i would rank meteor as high as sacy 5/6, tenz deserve top 4

derke is close tbh

#74

notnorte

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tenz?? bro his career isnt even better than s0ms

#77

koldamentafan

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Alfajer oat > meteor oat and its not even close

#18

Yistyy

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alright reading these replies im gonna play devil's advocate

https://www.vlr.gg/572868/ethan-got-carried-on-2023-eg

#20

adits11

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how is ethan even on that list

#26

osamason

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greatest flash ini oat
greatest support oat
only 2 time world champion and won one igling
very good mechanics
highest ingame iq
handsome
married
humble

#21

xineFso

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Ethan being in the convo is so forced u just know by saying Ethan is the goat even you urself know it doesn’t sound right

#25

sentinelmain377

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Ethan being considered in the top 3 (let alone top 15) is why vlr is dum as fuck

you can easily argue for players like crashies to be ranked higher than ethan all time, but somehow ethan is top 3.

#28

Yistyy

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(let alone top 15)

???

#31

osamason

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get your brain checked

#32

sentinelmain377

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these are your "arguments":

greatest flash ini oat
greatest support oat
only 2 time world champion and won one igling
very good mechanics
highest ingame iq
handsome
married
humble

get your brain checked

#37

osamason

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if chronicuck only had half of these id maybe consider him top 20

#48

Wolfed

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i disagree, ethan has a good case going as one of the most selfless intitiator players oat
there is a reason why demon1, the ego man, thrived on EG and never reached the same levels after

aspas is still 1 though (atp he has proven himself over Chron, Boaster and Derke for me)

#53

sentinelmain377

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the problem with Ethan is that he is pretty irrelevant outside of 4-5 events (100T Berlin 2021, EG Tokyo, EG Champs, NRG EWC, NRG Champs). pretty inconsistent

#39

deadpark

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better than that, imagine these 3 together

#44

sentinelmain377

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if GOAT = all time success & stats, then top 5 is some order of Aspas, Chron, Derke, Alfajer, Boaster

if GOAT = best peak/prime/true potential, then top 3 is some order of Leo, Alfajer, Yay and the rest of the peaks are debatable

the only way Ethan can be in the top 5 of something is if GOAT is solely based on trophy value or some team role like initiator.

#46

Yistyy

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well that's why aspas is arguably the goat because he fits both of those definitions.

#49

Wolfed

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if best peak/prime then demon1 should be above Leo and Alfajer

#50

Acethyr

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the best prime belongs to yay and it is not close
it will never be close either

#51

sentinelmain377

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true

#76

ballsinyojaws

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yays prime was significantly boosted thanks to prime chamber, once chamber was nerfed, yay fell off into oblivion

#56

cyk

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i am gonna say it, Not chronicle, only Leo in the goat conversation in that prime Fnatic, he is undoubtably the best in the team and in theworld at their era

#57

marxlboro

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leo era ended so much early that we couldnt consider him in this convo unfortunate

#58

Gdgdfdgtttt

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if goat means best then its aspas, if goat means best all around player its ethan, if goat means the MOST of like a true winner its chronicle

#59

MrHyphon

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Meteor has won 2 out of the 3 pacific trophies, qualified to internationals with 3 separate teams, has performed miracles in grand finals, has cultural impact, and an official MVP title in his belt

He should 100% be considered in the top 5 at least

#61

marxlboro

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hes in my top 6 - 10, but doesnt come close to top 3 (for now)

#62

MrHyphon

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name the other 3 better than him

#64

marxlboro

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better? i would say higher in the goat convo, but here it goes:

aspas, chron, ethan, alfa, tenz and sacy (meteor and sacy deeds are equivalent to me)

#65

MrHyphon

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Meteor has had more cultural impact than Alfa + Alfa hasn't proven that he could thrive outside of Fnatic
Even though the Alfa's stats are higher Meteor has proven that he could perform miracles to win trophies

Tenz is an interesting case because he dominated valorant's first event, didn't do anything for 3 years (not even qualify for anything), came back, won something, then immediately retired but has immense cultural impact so idk

#78

koldamentafan

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Alfajer oat > meteor oat and its not even close. No need for coping

#60

shrike-

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ethan knocked chronicle out of the goat conversation the moment he btfo’d the “goat flex” when it mattered the most, not to mention how he was igling

#63

MrBlooBloom

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all worse than chloric btw

#71

jawn

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ethan cannot possibly be top 3, he appears on internationals once every 3 years and wins a trophy with bog standard stats

#75

charleser

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Ethan is an outstanding player and vlr will never give him proper respect because he isn't a flashy player and not much of a personality/community guy

#79

9wntr

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leo > kron

#80

TaniBoy7

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1.) Aspas
2.) Chronicle
3.) Ethan
4.) Sacy
5.) Alfa
6.) Tenz
7.) Meteor
8.) Derke

My list goes like this, 5-8th isnt exactly fixed but for now I think this is how it should be

#82

marxlboro

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swap sacy for alfa and i agree

hm: forsaken, demon1, mako, nAts, Leo

#83

TaniBoy7

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Im probably putting f0rsaken and Leo at 9th 10th, I would love to fit in d1 nAts and mako as well but its just not possible too many good players lol