I literally saw a post a few days ago where the OP was bronze at 19 and said they were trying to go pro and compete on a major org. As a master baiter myself It was clear he wasn’t rage baiting by how he wrote in all his replies.
Today I saw another post with a 18 yr old who is plat who played for 5 years with 700 total hours asking if he can go pro.
These guys are nuts I’m telling you. Human intelligence is plummeting
why does it matter where you start as long as you are willing to work hard it could happen
and even if it doesn't it's their life and their goals bro let them be at least they're trying at something in life
if u dont have the talent ur literally wasting ur time
if ur goal is t2 and/or radiant its more achievable, but tier 1? no way
what exactly makes up talent for an esport? much easier to tell in physical sports. and how can you even know if you have talent if you're bronze and just beginning to "try"? you have no idea. even people with great physical genetics have very little idea of where they stand for sports performance until they start training (unless growing up in physically demanding environment like on a farm)
that plat kid with 700 hours how many of those were spent actually trying to learn skills and apply them vs autopiloting? not a clue. nobody knows except maybe him so it just seems crazy toxic to be taking a dump on other peoples' dreams when we know nothing about them
if u had talent u’d be atleast immo 1 in 700 hours, no matter how u spent them, sorry im just being realistic
im sorry bro but that's just hard untrue if those 700 hours were spent poorly
someone super talented for bench press might spend 5 years benching with terrible form and awful programming + commitment they will never reach a high level of strength let alone world class even if they have a great "talent" for it
people use talent as a cope far too often particularly in an esports setting like almost all these skills that pros have are learnable. not 100% of them but a very significant portion
Spending 700 hours doing something with the intention to improve and knowing how to improve properly is a skill/talent itself that most non-pro players lack
yes it's a skill not a talent. you arent born genetically with an "intention to improve" my guy that's a mindset you develop intentionally
I don’t understand why you keep conflating talent with genetics. They are not necessarily the same thing
my understanding is as follows:
talent is what you have naturally
skill is what you develop through effort
so talent is more or less identical to genetics in my view. you could argue a grey area for the circumstances in which somebody grew up (loving parents vs bad parents) but i don't see how that's really a "talent" that somebody possesses innately
if you want to go pro in valorant or anything you need:
good talent (genetics), a shit ton of hard work (talent means nothing if you dont put in the work aswell), and passion (if you dont love what you do and dont care about it, its difficult)
You're confusing 2 concepts and defining them as the same thing.
Talent is what will help you hit your ceiling faster.
Dedication and discipline is what will dictate how high that ceiling is.
A lot of Immo 2 will never be something else than Immo because they're just talented ranked demons with actual 0 clue about how to play the game.
Because if you're considering just pure raw aim to define success in the game, Boaster and FNS wouldn't have even 1 title and wouldn't been some of the most talented IGL's to ever grace the game. Just watch FNATIC after Boaster retires without a proper replacement and you will see it's not just talent.
you have it legit backwards, talent is your ceiling while dedication and discipline is what gets you there
Sociablee didn't make it into tier 1 until he was 29, i think if youre early 20s and aren't at the top its doable. Unlikely? Absolutely.
No one ever made it pro if they didn’t have talent bro. If you aren’t radiant within your first 5 acts of consistent play, you don’t have what it takes to go pro
yes but you are assuming this is genetics. vast majority of pros have prior FPS game experience or at least competitive experience in other games which gives a lot of transferrable skills and the right mindset for improvement instead of autopiloting
may I introduce to you the demon of hard work
furia alym
I think this is hilarious cuz I was planning to use alym as my example of talent lmfao. I don’t know why you think he’s an example of hard work, he put in around 600 hours to get to radiant while only playing sporadically. As soon as he put in 1 acts worth of meaningful hours he hit immortal 2, and the very next act he hit immortal 3.
Alym actually fits my argument perfectly, because he took 4 acts of consistent play to make radiant, not even 5.
You're talking this... On a val forum where berlinglazer exists?
yea if ur one of those people u will never make it cus u just dont have the genes for it
What is wrong with having aspirations despite how unrealistic they might be?
attempting to go pro when u just picked up the game a week ago and are bronze 1 at 19 years old is stupidity
People who genuinely think they can go pro if they just work hard enough are so funny, I’ve never seen a pro that took more than 5 acts to hit radiant unless they played less than 50 hours per act in those 5
i think hard work can get 80% of people to challengers, but tier 1 is a different beast
so like you come out of the womb with gaming genetics? your first fps you hit radiant in less than 5 acts? look at canezerra's tracker he started off like iron, played a shit ton and got good. he wasnt born good. i dont think most pros are insane when they first play, it takes time to get good
yeah except the thing is genetics determine how good you can get and also how fast you will improve. there are many people who even if they dedicated all their time they wouldn't exceed a player like eeiu or aspas or demon1.
i dont see what genetic advantage those players have over anyone else though? what i see is that they've probably spent a lot of time getting to how good they are now. i mean i agree these reddit guys are delusional but i dont really see the gamer gift you're born with
Baseline reaction time has a heritable component (~50-60% genetic)
Contrast sensitivity and motion detection ability vary genetically and affect how quickly you track enemies.
Fine motor control and cerebellar efficiency have genetic underpinnings. The precision needed for flick shots and micro-adjustments is partly tied to neuromuscular wiring.
The ability to track multiple agents, utility timings, and map positions simultaneously draws on working memory capacity, which is substantially heritable (~50%).
Some people are genetic "high responders" to skill training — they improve faster from the same amount of practice. This is linked to dopaminergic and neuroplasticity-related genes (BDNF, COMT, APOE).
valorant is no differnt from every other thing in life. your genetics determine your celeing at everything. that doesnt mean you only need genetics there is much more than that. as pujan once said to be proffesional or highest teir at anything you need: talent (genetics), hardwork, and passion.
i dont think your genetics do determine your ceiling, and i also think that your weighing too much on genetic factors too. firstly, reaction time is pretty similar for high rank players (who never go pro) so i dont think this means much. secondly, contrast sensitvity is spotting differences in light intensity - i dont think this is a factor in valorant. the enemies arent exactly hard to see with outlines. motion detection ability i guess could help you see an enemy faster? again, a bit of a reach. fine motor control is literally strengthened by playing games and obviously plays a factor but if you play more you aim better, no genetics there. "genetic underpinnings" doesn't really mean much. i think cerebellar efficiency is similar to reaction time which i already disputed earlier. working memory capacity of valorant is pretty small and i doubt many people are bottlenecked by forgetting where people are on the map. final point is literally just how you practice as well. different practice works for different people. amount is not quality.
be ready to get disected!
the fact that high rank players who never go pro have similar reaction times actually proves my point. reaction time is a floor requirement to even compete at that level, not the thing that separates pros.
it's not just "can you see the enemy." it's peripheral motion detection, tracking a peak that is 50 ms, seeing movement through a smoke with 10 pixels only being exposed. that's what contrast sensitivity is for.
fine motor control getting better from playing doesn't disprove genetics at all. trainability itself is genetic thing. two people with equal hours of practice will not hit the same ceiling. that is a biological gap.
working memory in valorant is quite important. you're tracking 5 enemy positions, util cooldowns, your team's economy, map control, and rotating decisions all at the same time. people who are bottlenecked by it believvee they just have bad "game sense" which happens to be the exact same thing.
and on the bigger point. i never said genetics are the only thing, that's literally the opposite of what i said. me and FNS's whole argument is that you need 3 things to go pro and play vct. Talent/genetics (these dont matter unless you put in the hard work and effort), hard work (to be a pro you need to put a shit ton of time work and effort into practicing n shit), and passion (you gotta love what you do otherwise it will be hard to put in all the work)
ok in order:
#1: i agree, reaction time is a floor - it doesn't seperate pros
#2: i don't think this seperates pros either. i have seen pros miss small timings of seeing people plenty of times - it literally has no impact on whether you're good or not
#3: trainability is probably genetic but training any skill in general is generally more dependent on how you're training it.
#4: true, but you're not doing this all at once. no one tracks util cooldowns - you can see yours at all times, and for everyone else in the game you have a rough idea. if pros tracked cooldowns, you would never see pros get timinged by a smoke fading badly. you dont track economies mid round, map control isnt memory it's in the top left of your screen and rotating is a decision not memory. bad game sense isnt memory
#5: i agree. genetics just doesn't play a significant part
3.ou're not wrong that training quality matters more than quantity, but that's a separate point from genetics. trainability being genetic means the ceiling of your response to good training is still biological. two players doing identical high quality even personalized training regimens for the same hours will still diverge in how far they progress. the method explains the path, genetics explains where the path ends and how long it takes to finish if yk what i mean.
but i wanna think about #5 which is where you kind of changed the frame of the argument. so im wondering in your opinion what is "unsignificant" in this context? like a percent value
#2 those timings rarely happen in game. especially to the extent you're saying. pros miss them not due to this contrast sensitivity thingy but because there's other shit in the round they're more focused on (probably looking at map)
#3 i dont know what this means exactly - what is the ceiling of your response? how much you learn from it? and "identical personalized" doesn't make sense because by definition personalized varies from person to person
#4 most of the time you're only tracking a couple of enemy positions not all 5 but i take your point. there still isnt that much to remember in a round. you only need to remember the agent and their map location which is quite easy, pros dont struggle with this
#5 its not a quantifiable value but to say it better, genetics arent differentiating t1 pros from t2 pros or any pros from any pros. it probably affects lower skill players more. as you get better, genetics mean less and less. maybe when you're iron these factors come more into play but for higher ranks no
yes "gaming genetics" are a thing. and if cane didnt have them he wouldnt have gotten good as fast as he did (he also wouldnt have reached the same peak no matter what he did)
what genetics? reaction time? intelligence? i dont really understand what genetics you're talking about
yea all of that. and just the ability to learn all the skills necessary to become good fast and accurately. ur personality also matters, how you approach games etc
i fully agree with the games approach. obviously if you grind swiftplays all day you wont become pro. but i dont think reaction time makes much of a difference. lots of immortals/radiants have fast reaction times, and they're not pro. there's probably some super genius valorant players out there who are like plat. i think its a mindset thing first and foremost, and also if you got a lot of free time to burn on valorant that helps too
yea but some people are just genetically capped at a certain level, and nothing can change that. some people play for 2 years and insta get into challengers and does well, while others can grind for years and not even make challengers level
i wouldnt put that down to genetics though, i would put that down into mindset and approach as you said earlier. how much you grind is not proportional to how good you get. lots of pro teams dont play lots of scrims, they drill individual scenarios because that is better practice than just playing for the sake of playing. most people just play valorant - they dont drill those scenarios. it's all about the quality of practice, not the quantity
Might be able to go into a coaching/staff position. Then you just gotta mess up someone’s visa and boom you got a spot on the team.
With enough determination you can do anything
yeah and that understating it. if you arent like 500+ rr by 16 u prolly should give up.
it does matter. if i was exactly where i am right now except 1 year younger i would go all in on trying to go pro in val
as of now i am not trying to go pro ( i might consider content creation t2 > teir 1 but i doubt) im focusing on my studies but i do want to go play high level collegiate val if i can
i also improved pretty fast and i have good genetics for val (i think)
if a 19 year old bronze player drops out of college to try to go pro and after 4 years of working hard they finally hit radiant only for them to realize they are miles off of the goal of reaching tier 1 and are fucked essentially. yeah seems like it payed off.
Did you say this too them or did you see that post and come to vlr to talk about it?
im immortal 2 and whenever i play against ex radiants occasionally all my dreams about even playing in TIER THREE get crushed in an instant
for sure. ive hit radiant mutliple times im 16 aswell and back when ranked was good (few acts ago) w;hen i played against good pro players it kind of made me re evaluate how i thought of myself and going pro
bro playing against actual like good good players is such a humbling feeling like there is levels to ts
Online ranks don't matter. You can get boosted and then pretend you're having an off day when you do bad.
Only LAN tournaments matter and how you perform in front of others in person.
are you fr? if your not high ranked its very hard to get on the path to joining a pro team.
High ranked can be purchased. It would be insane for a legitimate team to consider this for a pickup. Online can be a nice to have but it cannot be the path. What if they got boosted? What if they played with a cheater? What if they cheated? Online is not a measurement of success. This might be your first FPS so I won't hold it against you.
avg 100t flair 60 iq. just letting you know ascednatn players will never be considered by teams cuz they are ascendant by the way
Buddy. You've got the reading comprehension of Anderzzz. I never said Ascendant players would be considered for teams. God we are fkd as a society if you get anywhere close to a job.
I'm saying a legitimate team would not pick a player up solely based on ranked.
You would base your recruitment on LAN performance.
Put this into chatgpt and ask it to explain it at your reading level.
sorry for being rude earlier that was stupid.
i think there is something i dont understand. what is the path to becoming a vct player in your opinion step by step?
for me personalyl i thought it was:
ranked > premeir > t2 > t1
ranked > top radiant > t2 >t1
ranked > top radiant > t1
however you are saying it is not the case. and you are saying you get picked up based off performance at LAN. however how do you get lan perfromance if you dont play it? maybe there is a misunderstanding or something but could you please elaborate so i could understand better. thanks
There are two different paths.
First, if you can get 5 people to play together, win premier (which is highly unlikely considering the cheating that goes on in premier), then some how get to ascension, win ascension, your team becomes pro if it doesn't get absolutely picked apart prior to getting to VCT.
Second, you play in Mr Funhaver tournaments, you get recruited into a tier 2 team, you attend a LAN or two, you personally do extremely well and place high or do well but your team consistently places top 3, you play for a long period of time, you get a tryout for a VCT team, do well in the tryout.
Each of these paths require EXTENSIVE networking with people and being the world's largest kiss ass unless you're a godly player winning LANs by yourself.
In 2027, there will be a BONUS path. That will be similar to the second path but since there will be cups, you have more opportunities now to show up at an Riot official cup or tournaments.
The only way ranked helps you, is if you network while playing ranked, befriend every good player you run into and become their best friend. To give you credit, you sort of identified this in your post.
If you're a young inspiring pro, Valorant isn't going to be the game for you. You will need to grind Valorant, become known to some degree and likely get in early for the next "BIG" game.
even if u hit radiant the chances of u getting signed is slim to none unless ure a nepo, so ur rank doesnt do shit at all and even if u can buy an acc trials will prove if ure fit for a team in t3-t1 unless its a no name team like how rankers was
yeah i know radiant alone isnt enough. its far too easy to hit radiant. however i personally had beleived being a consitent top 50 radiant could help get you into trials so you can prove yourself.
Idk i had 0 fps background and went from iron 2 to high immo 3 in 9 months. And even then I was astronomically behind an average pro player. Its definitely possible although after coaching for awhile ive come to realize some people are just inherently going to be awful and no amount of play time changes that. The best player I know comes online maybe twice a year for a couple of weeks hits radiant and doesn't touch his computer (although hes toxic af) so its definitely possible.
i highkey realized i sucked ass at val a long time ago
and thats alr
im not delusional abt it
i just suck
grass is green redditors are some of the dumbest people on the planet and unlike with x where you know half of the people are ragebaiting/ trying to make a narrative redditors have no self awareness and believe they are geniuses when in reality they just have no real world experience and are chronically online
People are downvoting some basic biology and truth. Albeit esports is not as discussed a topic compared to physical sports in the realm of genetics. But just from what I have studied regarding the specifics of genetics. Their is 100% a genetic component, and that occurs with everything. It can be anything from reaction time, the difference in calcium release from the sarcoplasmic reticulum for the extensor digitorum profundis to lift the hand jjust a focal of an inch, the different in type 1, II, IIb, your dentate nucleus of your cerebellum has a quicker processing speed for planning the fine dextrous movements of the fingers and wrist, etc. There is a genetic component, and this is also why you do not see as many women in the tier 1 scene (I do not even think a woman has made the T1 scene in val or CS yet or not that is biologically a female at birth). Some may view this as a bad thing or even look at the nature vs nurture view for the women argument. But, genetics plays a large role, and it's illogical to think otherwise.
It does not however eliminate hard work, but hard work can not make up for a super large gap that already exists.
30 year old ow silver player who genuinely thinks he can go pro quit his job n everything
https://www.reddit.com/r/OverwatchTMZ/comments/1lbv86c/can_someone_give_me_a_tldr_on_gamin4hope/
free real estate you looked at my profile to find something to say and this is the best you could come up with
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