I don't like LOUD

Frags

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because they feel exactly like LEV and LEV felt exactly like NS and NS felt exactly like the underdogs of the past. Nothing against them as players really, it's just given the nature of vct you naturally expect them to fall off in 2027, and that is bad, you can't enjoy their current victory because of this

#11

Useless_Miks_Ult

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ngl i thougth it was smth with the ORG itselfs
yeah as an CS watcher aswell i want more dominant years dynasties instead of underdog runs rigth now

#15

Frags

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At least consistent top 4-6 teams, I not even talk about dynasties

#12

catNmouse

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it is dreadful as a viewer (and for pros) to watch every team scramble to find their identity in a new meta with a new map pool in a short amount of time. 2022-2024 was nothing like this

#20

Shadow_Monarch

Frags

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True.

#21

Frags

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Exactly my point. It just lives a bittersweet taste in my mouth. Like I see luk xo and tkzin and davih and I think ''fuck these guys are good''. I will stop watching, look at vct masters in february and won't find them cuz riot made another meta change and now they were eliminated 5-6th at vct cup americas by LYON cuz LYON got the meta and loud didn't.

#23

catNmouse

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partly why 2023 champions is my favorite, the entire top 4 was full of teams that had reached great heights in prior tournaments in that same year

#28

Frags

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2023 was the greatest year because there was a big bad, fnatic. They went into champs with the chance to sweep the fucking year. Their fans (and later on entire emea when emea went out) had this ''us going for greatness vs the world'' feeling, all other regions had their favourite also going for their head. Like the ''kill fnatic'' was a subplot to the ''win champs'' objective.

E1ijah

Frags

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Unironically a respectable take.

Shadow_Monarch

Frags

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Wtf? lol. LOUD is good. Not reading allat though.

Do you not like VALORANT/VCT or actually Loud?

edit:

Valorant suffers from constant cinderella runs, underdogs and it has a lot to do with frequent meta changes.

Indeed a fact.

Yet if I watch LOL, and google faker, I see greatness. I know that's a guy who has 6 Worlds, 2 MSI's and 10 LCK titles. I immediately understand that's a guy who is firmly the goat and every next game he plays is just adding to his immense legacy.

Also a fact. Aspas was supposed to be this for Valorant but the game and stupid changes with dumb broken agents like Apex Neon fucked the game up and meta.

#10

Frags

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Not reading allat though.

You're one of the reason why this esports is fucked

#13

nutab1e

-1

Frags

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flair 😿

#16

Frags

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Gambit was one of the best esports org itw😭

#17

Frags

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I want VALORANT/VCT to stick around because rivalry is amazingly beneficial for CS. I genuinely do not believe CS would shift to open format in 2025, 32 team major, abolishment of louvre agreement and vrs introduction if it wasn't for valorant. The peak of cs viewership at cologne 2026 major came in part because valorant was there to provide competition

#19

Shadow_Monarch

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Exactly, just like Apple and Samsung.

f4vel4do

Frags

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so blame Riot for this not loud wtf

#14

Frags

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I hate what the LOUD victory MEANS, I literally said I have nothing against THEM, their win would just be meaningless because they are like that buzz lightyear meme from toystory where all of them look fancy and cool but they are exactly the same. I love their story, going from middle of the pack to now champs gf, their skill, their story, it's AMAZING. However, Riot build VCT In a way that I cannot enjoy their victory because I as a viewer EXPECT they will fail in 2027. I would love them to stick around and actually even build a dynasty in 2027, because valorant needs one. And given how passionate loud players and fans are, they would make for a perfect fucking villain if they win plenty of events

#36

thatpower

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Nah we’re blaming loud too

#18

okbenzene

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I agree

#22

Castawaytwizz

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I actually like LOUD but I completely agree with the overall take. There needs to be more events (and no, this wouldn’t cause “burnout”, what causes “burnout” is spending your entire life playing shitty boring scrims against some t2 team every day) and a more util heavy meta so that out-thinking the opponents is once again more important than just being better on the day

#25

Frags

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I would love to see a meta where theoratically everything can go. For me when valorant has one set way of playing, the correct meta way, it loses what makes it special compared to cs. to me it was wild to see some fans say g2 trolled by picking vyse and not sage on summit today. And turns out they were correct. I want a meta where theoratically everything works, like in a good meta. And don't change it for a year. Even make some like parallel patch for the pro scene if you are afraid casuals might get bored. Kinda like pubg has 1st person/3rd person mode. And let the scene just invent shit.

#24

shanters

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Perfect take my man, a lot of fans live in denial and refuse to spot this pattern. The game is intentionally made RNG so Leo Fraudria can go online and boast when the top 4 inevitably have one team of each region. If everything is a miracle run, this just mean your game sucks

#26

Frags

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Pretty much how I feel. The constant meta changes is I think the main reason. NOVA going from 1-4 in Split 1 to 5-0 in Split 2 China is just not normal

#29

catNmouse

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i mean… it isn’t just meta changes that contribute to that, those teams made upgrades to their rosters to become good in the first place.

#30

Frags

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That too, those are the two main things

#27

sematary

Frags

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i think it's good that underdogs are a consistent theme, it makes tournaments way more fun to watch because of the unpredictability.
"it loses its magic and results in people getting bored" do you see the majority of NA viewers cheering that g2 has won the 23895235th regional in a row?
i would make the argument that dynasties are boring, i mean, prx has consistently been top4 for the past couple tourneys and everyone predicted they would follow suit in this champs, when they lost out it was super shocking and very emotional.

also you said you're a cs fan, the conditions to win are completely different. there are 1 million patches for utility before each tournament and for a team to recognize what has changed and to adapt is part of winning, not just shooting heads. for example krx pioneered the double duelist comps, ns was able to pounce on that with mechanically gifted players and that's what got them their trophy. in cs you don't have agents with their own identities, you don't have ultimates, etc etc, so the meta changing and teams adapting to it (& finding success) isn't a flaw, it's just a difference.

also your point about not knowing new faces is moot imo. chron derke asuna have been around for years and they're also in the top4. it's no surprise that younger rosters are going to achieve more, they've literally grown up on this game versus players that have switched over to val. new/younger players just have the advantage of valorant being all they know.

#33

Frags

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Regional dominance and international dominance are two different beasts. Dynasties are good when they are on the biggest stage, they draw the eyes of new fans to them, not when it happens in a region. No new football fan gives a fuck bayern dominates bundesliga and practically wins it in february. New football fans do however look at three peat real madrid as some fucking satanic instititution which found a way to win against the best of the best for 3 years in a row.
PRX was shocking because they are the only team which has the same core as in 2023. It's still the same prx basically. same playstyle, same players, same philosophy. That is why it was emotional and super shocking. People gave a shit about PRX going out 7-8th, they didn't care about NS going 7-8th or T1 then getting 5-6th.
It is a difference, I agree, but it still means every single win is tied to the meta and the patch and can't be looked upon as just a win. If this team fails to adapt to the next patch, they are not seen as some elite team with insane talent, they are seen as patch abusers who got lucky with the patch fitting them.
Chron derke and asuna are the exception to the rule, not the rule. Yes, these players did grow up on valorant. but some of them were top 9-10 teams in their region last year. They weren't here. these aren't some consistent international stage players. And there's nothing indicating about this changing. LEV missed champs after winning masters, NS missed masters after winning masters in january. These young players can't establish their name when their time is potentially 1-2 LANs. donk had the same rise and debut in 2024 as tkzin or luk xo right now, ''new kid on the block wrecks shit'', yet then he had TIME to show he was not a fluke and to become the monster he is seen as right now.

#31

foythvlr

Frags

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I had to google who neon/blowz/spike were in June, and now I need to do the same for darker/lukxo/tkzin

you just dont know ball thats ok

loud, lev and NS were seed 1/2 on their runs. if you think thats a underdog run thats on you

comparing VCT to 15/20 year old esport scenes its also on you. you think faker started with 5 titles?

rn i see val on a transitional state between old talent (mainly from CS) and new talent (grew with the game). of course theres a lot of young guys. the stablishment of the identity has to start somewhere

#38

Frags

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I can't know ball when I am an occasional viewer, that is okay, but it would be better for me to feel the stakes for players if I at least heard of them before. Or when I googled, I would at least see they were around the top of their region.
They were #1-#2 seeds just because of the tournament format.
LOUD were 11-12th in January and had tkzin and davih come in in july.
LEV were 7-8th at kickoff.
NS literally had to grind ascension again cuz they didn't do well enough in 2025.
You look at it in retrospective. Sure, you saw them as insane talent (because you know they won), but at the time of events they were ROOKIES. Unproven. No pressure.
New game? sure. But let's look at it this way. Valorant doesn't have the nature to build up talent. it has been roughly over 6 years since valorant released. let's look at faker's career 6 years deep into lol existing as an esport. 3 worlds, 2 msi, 6 LCK. HE was already the GOAT.
It is a transitional period, but the meta changing constantly doesn't allow valorant to build a faker.

#46

foythvlr

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Loud had three different players in january. LEV had a sub on kickoff and played without their best player. NS was still a top 5 APAC team by the end of the year, the ascension thing was just a rule thing and they qualified pretty comfortably to 26. Feel like you're lacking some nuance here

it doesn't make sense that you blame the meta and use league as an example like league doesn't have even heavier meta differences and is a completely different game. the actual truth is that league didn't have to deal with a mass player migration the way valorant did. valorant will always live under the shadow of CS (and league itself to an extent) until they build their own identity which is happening at the moment. valorant also has way more talent between regions contrary to league which is just a korean-china circle jerk since forever

also, what you're saying isn't even that true. first winners of 21, sure (mostly), but loud won 22 and went great the other year (and even had a decent 24 besides everything). their 2nd, optic core, had like two years of great consistency between three different orgs before the BLG incident in late 23.FNC 23 went down as the most consistent core on the history of the game with PRX, who by themselves are PRX. SEN went 4th on champs after madrid, GENG was great through most of the year. FNC core came back in 25, NRG had a good 26. NS still got a top 8 on champs and while Lev disappointed its still soon to talk about the roster capabilities. And we have TH and G2 as teams who were consistent af these past two years. The only "downfall" roster that this apply post-21 is T1, EG (who disbanded post-win for monetary reasons but their players were still on top for a while) and EDG (who still got a top 4 after their win). there are a lot of famous names from every valorant year still on the top 8 champions this year

#51

Frags

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Gambit downfall is consequences of Russia Ukrainian war

#52

foythvlr

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and even so, Chronicle/nAts/Redgar still went for a while even if not together as a core (Chronicle is still a top player to this day, nAts also is for some)

#53

Frags

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I still think about world when war never happened, CIS league still exist and we could have multiple Russian teams like Virtus Pro or Team Spirit along with Gambit

#54

Frags

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fair points, still I wonder if they struck people as this ''yeah, they are a dangerous team, one to be title favourites''. I hope valorant does build an identity, and it's a fair point that it can be identity building, and honestly I find your reply an incredibly deep understanding of valorant. I however disagree on some points. to me, a team with 3 new player is a new team. to me a team who went from top 5 in their region to 10-1 to back to then top 8 at champs feels like it could do so much more and is patch dependant. And these are great examples of consistent teams, but these teams were mostly 2021-2024. 2025-2026 isn't nearly as consistent. It really makes me think the game is not built for building legacy when a team is capable of going 10-1 at masters, missing masters and finishing top 8 at champs, ALL IN THE SAME YEAR.

#32

snowconedeity

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honestly yeah, i think that the meta being so volatile all the time makes it so that it’s impossible to garner any consistency, and if you are consistent, you’re usually not consistently winning (G2 for example). I don’t particularly know how to solve this though besides lengthening the map pool cycles and overall metas. but with 2027 circuit starting less than a month after champs while introducing a: new agent, new weapon, and a new map pool, i don’t think riot is going in the direction of consistency.

#34

snowconedeity

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but also i think it’s kinda fun. i personally HATE that t1 is just unbeatable at worlds stages it makes the viewer experience worse cause it feels like the outcome can be predetermined. i also hated VIT for that same reason in CS2, i think a good balance of underdogs and dynasties is important, valorant just skews too far on the “cinderella” side. but also LOUD have always been good since this iteration of five players was formed.

#42

Frags

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which is why I am scared for vct. The new format creates such a wild mix of random and potential to see new faces it will lose this meritocracy feeling. At least don't change the meta for a year, then at least you can sell the scene is competitive. if they do change, then it will turn into this circle jerk of ''meta is shit bla bla bla''

#35

king_bob

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this argument gets reheated every year since EG. it's all a financial issue, vct is broke as fuck and these winning rosters stuck on shitty broke orgs end up constantly having to break up because the partnership is completely useless and it also restricts orgs from playing more games and winning more tourneys. this isnt a hot take nor a breakthrough or whatever.

#41

Frags

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And it's really sad that even the format itself sorta prevents some sort of consistency and building at least something.

#37

EpicGamerGamingEpicly

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this is the reason i think 2023 still remains the best year for vct. meta was stable the whole vct season and we saw teams that were able to dominate for a large portion of the year (fnc,eg,prx). riot need to stop doing multiple big meta changes in the middle of the year and reactionarily nerf characters mid season it just makes the game so much more random.

since riot just dropped their biggest update yet (their own words) hopefully they realised this and we actually have a stable meta for a full season

#39

Frags

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since riot just dropped their biggest update yet

Just imagine that is the worst version of 11.08
I would die

#40

Candlee

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I ain't reading all that, free Palestine

#44

Frags

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most respectful way I have ever seen someone write tl;dr, fairs

#43

Fightu

-1

Frags

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Seems whiney tbh, games 5 years old. Meta changes are good and adaptability is important in the team.

#45

Frags

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of course, but then now you have a problem that apparently most masters/champs winners can't adapt? who we have, prx, nrg, fnatic, that's it kinda?

#47

Akhmyed

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100/100 valid and agreed
leo furia is on a random americas generator and wants the rookies to LEV the moment
while consistent teams like PRX, G2, TL, DRX, FNC, SEN... etc get bullied for being "chokers" or not winning enough... etc
its like ur just guaranteed a trophy when u just pick a team and glaze them all the time and wait until ur vlr post checks out then claim to have "ball knowledge"
literally every couple of months u see flairs changing users based on recency bias combined with regional bias
cinderalla runs are fun but to an extent just like u said
now it feels like b2b mickey mouse events

back in the day VCT was more entertaining and i regret being too late to watch and only catching champs 23 unfortunately

#55

Akhmyed

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no wonder tarik stopped watch parties

#58

diffed

Frags

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yhea, i also started watching more cs, idk, at the moment it just feels the better game for me

#60

Frags

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Vitality mental comeback from winning Starladder series to win ESL was so entertaining to watch. But I feel bad for Mouz

#68

Akhmyed

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i might do it despite not touching the game for a long time (due to cheaters >:( which is why val is living)

#71

Frags

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Yeah, Im not touching CS either, but tournaments are still fun to watch

#57

diffed

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i agree with you, i started watching vct when it started, and i was excited seeing the matches, i was excited watching champions, it was fun, but it only lasted until 2025, now its not even fun, i just watch some clips, the game just became so random, i tried to watch some matches of this champs but man, its so boring, miracle runs, random meta, you know it... and then there is Tech Pauses also, which is definetly not helping lmao. I will probably not even watch the grand final, and its sad, the game i knew just disappeared

#48

zetydy

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Pretty true. I think you overexaggerate the problem somewhat, but I agree that it is a problem that I myself have been irritated with at times.

Staying at the top seems to be very hard in Valorant, and with mechanics being less important over all than something like CS, a lot of the problems teams have are more cerebral and strategy-based instead of mechanical, which can lead to teams improving or falling off significantly faster, as these problems are in general easier to fix and faster to appear. Pair that with the constant meta-changes and teams can fluctuate very fast.

That being said, there are more consistently good teams than you listed. Most stages you can still accurately predict the majority of teams that will make it through, and while the same team winning multiple international titles in a row or in a year is super rare, a team staying at the top is a lot less so. You just have to lower your expectations of these teams from top 3 to top 8 or so.

These pop-off cinderella runs are also a lot easier to track if you're invested into them regionally. And many of the "flukes" you mentioned took place over nearly the entire year. EG steadily improved over the year, going from mid, to runner-up, to champion, then fell off because there team was literally picked apart. Gen G was the best team of their year, performed bad for a tournament, then got players poached.

I also think the viewership criticism is stupid. Riot would say there viewership numbers are higher than ever. Numbers wise Valorant viewership is doing fine, it's just less visible to the average person because of the number of APAC and China viewers. With the tournament taking place in Shanghai right now, America's viewership in specific is going to take a big hit. They just don't really care.

#49

cartizera

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This is such a quality thread. Quality post, quality comments, quality replies, quality upvotes/downvotes as well, something you VERY rarely see on vlr.gg

#50

Frags

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true, glad the ''cs vs val'' war was prevented, that shit is old and just exists for morons

#56

Frags

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You said it well, but another thing I can say is when a storyline keeps existing it gets old. Premier League and VCT together show it. You had the dynasties of both Manchester clubs, United was dominating which made the EPL title race boring until the retirement of Fergie, but the throne is never vacant, and so City took it [by cheating], which is part of why Leicester City winning was remembered so fondly. A team that wasn't from Manchester, Liverpool, or London won it while being at 5000/1 odds. That never happened again, and may not. Also, in Worlds 2022 DRX's run is remembered so fondly. Because it's something that happens rarely. But when everyone's a true underdog, no one is.

#83

Frags

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Which is what makes an underdog so special. it's rare, it's beautiful. life is not a series or an anime where the good guys win. It's a cruel fucking machine which saw threepeat madrid, yankees and dodgers, patriots, celtics in the 60's and mercedes in f1. So, when the Ajax, the A's the New York Giants the Indiana Paces DOES happen, you cheer for them. People who hate the dynasty see this underdog as a saviour.

#59

TM06Nick

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All 3 of these teams would be first time winners except Nbs

#61

-2

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FUCK OFF, BRO. NO TEAM IN VALORANT HAS MANAGED TO BUILD A DYNASTY—AND YOU’RE TELLING ME YOU DON’T LIKE LOUD, SPECIFICALLY? IF YOU WANT A DYNASTY, GO WATCH THAT PIECE-OF-SHIT CS SCENE YOU’RE A FAN OF.

#62

Frags

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someone's salty and clearly didn't read

#64

Frags

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yes i asked to chatgpt summarize it to me

#65

Frags

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Flag, flair and chatgpt user combo

#66

Frags

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if it were anyone else he'd think the same. if it were C9 or KRU or TS or NAVI or anyone else he'd think the same. loud just so happens to be the one at this moment going through this

#69

Frags

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true, because I feel like i have seen this script before. doesn't matter which of the 48 names in vct is the winner, the winner feels the same

#70

Frags

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yeah bc this doesnt make any sense

#72

Frags

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What is exactly doesn't make any sense?

#67

Frags

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I literally praised loud in the 3 rd sentence of the thread lmao

#73

Frags

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name off the thread: i dont like loud
wym??? xd

#75

Frags

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That's why you retarded: you used chatgpt to summarise and didn't actually read the post

#76

Frags

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but what did I do wrong? stupid

#77

Frags

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Read the fucking post by yourself

#81

Frags

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i stil thiking the same, if you dont agree just say like an normal person bitch

#82

Frags

–

Then you just have a lack of reading comprehension

continue thread →

#79

Frags

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when I write ''I don't like LOUD'', I don't mean I don't like LOUD as a team an org or this bundle of 5 players. I don't like them as a winner. They feel like just another cinederella, just another mary sue and just another outlier. Their victory doesn't feel special to me. It does feel special to you since you are brazilian and i am happy for you and I understand YOUR happiness, but they feel like just another product of the system which doesn't work.

#84

Frags

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ok i got it bro, but LOUD cant change this, another teams with another players will appears and get the trophies

#86

Frags

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I hope LOUD actually breaks this cycle. they are the underdog against the system of vct itself, not the tournament. If they win masters seoul, they then can become the era, the dynasty.

#89

Frags

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They won't.
First of all.
Bigger orgs will do everything to take these players like Luk xo, Erde, Tkzin. So they will torn this team to pieces.
And second one
Another big meta change will eat their playstyle and they would force to find new identity and u need time to do this

#90

Biguera

Frags

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Kinda clickbaiting us to read the thread. I respect that.

#63

Frags

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It's better to watch CS scene with consistent players like Zywoo, Monesy, Donk than VCT with one tourney merchants like Neon or Luk xo

#78

Frags

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so go watch your fuck CS no one care about you

#85

Frags

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I already know your favourite LOUD would face downfall when meta will change and bigger orgs torn to pieces this team bc they want these players

#88

Frags

–

we are not gambit

#91

Frags

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LMAO. We fucked by Russia Ukrainian war that forced MTS (owner of Gambit Esports) to disband this club, it's not the same

#93

Frags

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thats not my problem 😭✌️

#94

Frags

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I didn't say it was your problem, you singlehandedly making LOUD unlikeable Despite the fact that I like them

#96

Frags

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and i dindt asked you and i dont care what you think about LOUD we gona be the greatest ORG of all time

#97

Frags

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Okay, you are definitely retard

continue thread →

#98

SturdyPanda

Frags

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i dont care what you think about LOUD

FUCK OFF, BRO. NO TEAM IN VALORANT HAS MANAGED TO BUILD A DYNASTY—AND YOU’RE TELLING ME YOU DON’T LIKE LOUD, SPECIFICALLY? IF YOU WANT A DYNASTY, GO WATCH THAT PIECE-OF-SHIT CS SCENE YOU’RE A FAN OF.

lol

continue thread →

#80

buhbuh

Frags

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maybe if it was csgo it would be exciting, but cs2 is a horrible game

#74

Biguera

Frags

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Good take, I agree with you. This annoys me a bit as well.

#92

spectredotaenjoyer

Frags

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so how do you fix constant 50 50 games and cindarella runs? just have a core set of basic agents that dont have lowskill abilities to be always kind of strong or something.
fire the balance team?? stop listening to pros like tenz for horrible ideas? how do we fix it!!!! help us!!! someone please!

#95