I would deadass rather see xeppaa hoops than ''sportsbetexpert''

trade offer:
cis trades excess of faceit demons to be duelists and carry emea
NA trades excess duelists/sentis/initiators to revive na cs
both win

fr what the hell?

The ''everything is OP'' is ofc wrong and unrealistic, but the main idea of buffs should be the ''picking every agent is not a troll and not a guaranteed loss''. Right now riot aren't nearly close to this idea. And while it is unrealistic, it should be the idea they thrive for. this patch is shit cuz if tommorow 100t pick miks every 100t fan tommorow will go fucking feral.

I never said I hate loud =(

https://liquipedia.net/dota2/The_International/2026
they just made it that 4-0 and 2 4-1 teams are the 3 teams in the round of 8 and forced 5 3-2 teams and 5 2-3 teams to fight it out at Last Chance

yes, I agree fully. Players are afraid to go out of their comfort zone because comfort zone works (or worked) and going out of it punishes you initially. It's similar to learned helpless concept. When you get punished for something, no matter what you do (stay put or change things) you will naturally give up and not try changing the environment entirely (adapting to a new agent). Sadly, it is the correct move in the current meta. Safer to stay comfortable and wait for the meta than to try adapting and losing precious games.

his closest comparison is deadass ropz and it's not a slander or hate in any way. That is also impressive as hell. Like the fuck do you mean he has a career placement at international lans of: 1st, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 4th, 7-8th, 5-6th, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, minimum top 3 now. that's 3.09 average placement across 11 lans and 5 years

similar to ti's 2026 format, albeit they just make it a sudden death with 3-2 vs 2-3. Swiss stage until 3 wins or 3 losses is the goat tho for me.

While I agree my opinion is moreso a dream and totally unrealistic, it serves more as an idea valorant should thrive for. Comp copying happens because of learned helplessness theory. the constant meta changes of today taught both fans and players alike that there is right valorant and wrong valorant. That is why ''metas'' are just copying the best team and then countering this best team meta. Teams are afraid to go a different way because they were taught not picking agent 1-2-3-4-5 on map 4 of the map pool is insta lose. There needs to be a meta where riot basically takes the teams by the hand and allows them to try some new stuff out.
donk-faker existing has more so to do with esports structure, and the whole partner-franchising system is such rotten cancer it needs to be talked about separately.
as for using multiple comps, I wonder WHY the game should be studied? Valorant is not a science, it doesn't have numbers and it doesn't have a heartstone level of attributes you need to accumulate to win a fight. It's a game about getting to 13 rounds faster than your opponent. How you get to these 13 rounds is not that important, getting there is. The win condition on a map (get 13 rounds/2 in OT) and just this should allow for more freedom in how you get there. Ideally, that's what should valorant get. multiple ways to get there, not a single correct one.

probably harder to say which teams didn't have drastic dips/rise in form :D

it can, but at least riot can sell it, and the fans can also indulge into the ''the scene and the level is so close that everyone can beat everyone'' and then leo faria and valorant are praised for semi-open format.
But in reality I think another scenario would occur. Funnily enough anything and everything working will actually turn into the meritocracy. Because there is no bad agent and because there is no bad ''idea of gameplay'', there is no excuse of a bad meta or meta-dependent teams. The prestige of every victory rises and it's not just ''they got the patch better and won as a result'', it's ''they picked THEIR idea, picked THEIR agents played THEIR valorant and won against OTHER ideas''. That sounds way deeper, more deserved, more earned. That implies there was an arms race of unlimited ideas and every masters/champs winner, hell every #1-#2 seed from any region developed their idea and project better than their peers. And when you have a year of such meta, champs becomes the grand finale, the decider. You know the teams, you know their idea, you know they have a perfect understanding of their idea. Everyone knows how every other team plays. It's not just ''which team is better at this meta'', it's ''which team has a better idea of valorant?''

which is precisely why meta being so shit and constantly changing resulted in the top 3 of champs consisting of a team which was a bottomfeeder in january, phoenix abusers and a team who lost to 2 tier 2 teams in emea! There's no goliath, no villain, no undisputed #1 team. You can make the case for them deserving a trophy as much as them being a fluke. The meritocracy feeling is dead. There have been so many underdog runs which then gave us teams who couldn't back it up that people undermine the potential winners before the event is even concluded. It gets to a point where people are so fedup with fast food wins that no winner can be accepted, let alone satisfy the community.

I never said loud were bad or trash or undeserving. on the contrary, amazing team, great raw skill, and insane levels of passion. It's just that I dislike the system of vct cuz I already saw the same with lev in london. young team, on the up, first big event, shocking the world. potato, po-tah-to. While I appreciate their talent I don't bite into the rookie narrative cuz I already saw it. I hate that because of how constantly the meta changes I cannot enjoy loud's win because deep down I feel like they will just get nerfed by the meta, get eliminated at vct cups and then vct masters seoul will give us the 3rd iteration of lev-loud. When I see the talent and skill of players on lev and loud, and I see them winning trophies, I firmly believe they can be winning and attending events constantly. I see their skill and I expect accolades and greatness to follow. When in reality with the meta changes of vct there won't be a continuation.

I am genuinely amazed how riot managed to spin such a drastic cut of costs into some sorta wwe ppv bullshit of ''EVERYTHING IS A TOURNAMENT''

I got more people agreeing from what i see, but I am free to hear where I countered myself :)

where?

I would go for a radical embracing of the identity of valorant. it is not like other fps because it has agents and feels almost moba-like. Make a patch where every character and every idea can work. Buff/Nerf, whatever it takes. So that every character is at least playable and picking them isn't seen as trolling. leave this professional meta for a year. Even give pros a different build from casuals (who might enjoy changes). And just let the scene do the work for riot. Double initiatior, double senti, double duelist, whatever the teams want and see as their choice, they can play it. You kinda need to make everything feel buffed and op because the teams now are scared to pick something out of lane, like taught helplessness. The experiment which showed dogs who were hit with electicity no matter what they did couldn't leave the room because they thought they would get hit anyways. Doctors helped them by just dragging the dogs by hand out several times and showing them there is no danger. That's what the new meta should be. allowing teams to pick something new or different again.

I hope LOUD actually breaks this cycle. they are the underdog against the system of vct itself, not the tournament. If they win masters seoul, they then can become the era, the dynasty.

Which is what makes an underdog so special. it's rare, it's beautiful. life is not a series or an anime where the good guys win. It's a cruel fucking machine which saw threepeat madrid, yankees and dodgers, patriots, celtics in the 60's and mercedes in f1. So, when the Ajax, the A's the New York Giants the Indiana Paces DOES happen, you cheer for them. People who hate the dynasty see this underdog as a saviour.

when I write ''I don't like LOUD'', I don't mean I don't like LOUD as a team an org or this bundle of 5 players. I don't like them as a winner. They feel like just another cinederella, just another mary sue and just another outlier. Their victory doesn't feel special to me. It does feel special to you since you are brazilian and i am happy for you and I understand YOUR happiness, but they feel like just another product of the system which doesn't work.

true, because I feel like i have seen this script before. doesn't matter which of the 48 names in vct is the winner, the winner feels the same

I literally praised loud in the 3 rd sentence of the thread lmao

fair points, still I wonder if they struck people as this ''yeah, they are a dangerous team, one to be title favourites''. I hope valorant does build an identity, and it's a fair point that it can be identity building, and honestly I find your reply an incredibly deep understanding of valorant. I however disagree on some points. to me, a team with 3 new player is a new team. to me a team who went from top 5 in their region to 10-1 to back to then top 8 at champs feels like it could do so much more and is patch dependant. And these are great examples of consistent teams, but these teams were mostly 2021-2024. 2025-2026 isn't nearly as consistent. It really makes me think the game is not built for building legacy when a team is capable of going 10-1 at masters, missing masters and finishing top 8 at champs, ALL IN THE SAME YEAR.

While i do agree I might have gone overkill, the vision of my takes remains correct

true, glad the ''cs vs val'' war was prevented, that shit is old and just exists for morons

yes I did call verno an odin spamming cuck who is afraid of losing. Yes I did say eg pay their players in chipotle. Yes I did compare engh to a moustache man because he took down france (kc) and england (fnatic) without any help. I am a man of many opinions and many thoughts =)

of course, but then now you have a problem that apparently most masters/champs winners can't adapt? who we have, prx, nrg, fnatic, that's it kinda?

most respectful way I have ever seen someone write tl;dr, fairs

thanks =)

which is why I am scared for vct. The new format creates such a wild mix of random and potential to see new faces it will lose this meritocracy feeling. At least don't change the meta for a year, then at least you can sell the scene is competitive. if they do change, then it will turn into this circle jerk of ''meta is shit bla bla bla''

And it's really sad that even the format itself sorta prevents some sort of consistency and building at least something.

I can't know ball when I am an occasional viewer, that is okay, but it would be better for me to feel the stakes for players if I at least heard of them before. Or when I googled, I would at least see they were around the top of their region.
They were #1-#2 seeds just because of the tournament format.
LOUD were 11-12th in January and had tkzin and davih come in in july.
LEV were 7-8th at kickoff.
NS literally had to grind ascension again cuz they didn't do well enough in 2025.
You look at it in retrospective. Sure, you saw them as insane talent (because you know they won), but at the time of events they were ROOKIES. Unproven. No pressure.
New game? sure. But let's look at it this way. Valorant doesn't have the nature to build up talent. it has been roughly over 6 years since valorant released. let's look at faker's career 6 years deep into lol existing as an esport. 3 worlds, 2 msi, 6 LCK. HE was already the GOAT.
It is a transitional period, but the meta changing constantly doesn't allow valorant to build a faker.

Regional dominance and international dominance are two different beasts. Dynasties are good when they are on the biggest stage, they draw the eyes of new fans to them, not when it happens in a region. No new football fan gives a fuck bayern dominates bundesliga and practically wins it in february. New football fans do however look at three peat real madrid as some fucking satanic instititution which found a way to win against the best of the best for 3 years in a row.
PRX was shocking because they are the only team which has the same core as in 2023. It's still the same prx basically. same playstyle, same players, same philosophy. That is why it was emotional and super shocking. People gave a shit about PRX going out 7-8th, they didn't care about NS going 7-8th or T1 then getting 5-6th.
It is a difference, I agree, but it still means every single win is tied to the meta and the patch and can't be looked upon as just a win. If this team fails to adapt to the next patch, they are not seen as some elite team with insane talent, they are seen as patch abusers who got lucky with the patch fitting them.
Chron derke and asuna are the exception to the rule, not the rule. Yes, these players did grow up on valorant. but some of them were top 9-10 teams in their region last year. They weren't here. these aren't some consistent international stage players. And there's nothing indicating about this changing. LEV missed champs after winning masters, NS missed masters after winning masters in january. These young players can't establish their name when their time is potentially 1-2 LANs. donk had the same rise and debut in 2024 as tkzin or luk xo right now, ''new kid on the block wrecks shit'', yet then he had TIME to show he was not a fluke and to become the monster he is seen as right now.

2023 was the greatest year because there was a big bad, fnatic. They went into champs with the chance to sweep the fucking year. Their fans (and later on entire emea when emea went out) had this ''us going for greatness vs the world'' feeling, all other regions had their favourite also going for their head. Like the ''kill fnatic'' was a subplot to the ''win champs'' objective.

I would love to see a meta where theoratically everything can go. For me when valorant has one set way of playing, the correct meta way, it loses what makes it special compared to cs. to me it was wild to see some fans say g2 trolled by picking vyse and not sage on summit today. And turns out they were correct. I want a meta where theoratically everything works, like in a good meta. And don't change it for a year. Even make some like parallel patch for the pro scene if you are afraid casuals might get bored. Kinda like pubg has 1st person/3rd person mode. And let the scene just invent shit.

Exactly my point. It just lives a bittersweet taste in my mouth. Like I see luk xo and tkzin and davih and I think ''fuck these guys are good''. I will stop watching, look at vct masters in february and won't find them cuz riot made another meta change and now they were eliminated 5-6th at vct cup americas by LYON cuz LYON got the meta and loud didn't.

I want VALORANT/VCT to stick around because rivalry is amazingly beneficial for CS. I genuinely do not believe CS would shift to open format in 2025, 32 team major, abolishment of louvre agreement and vrs introduction if it wasn't for valorant. The peak of cs viewership at cologne 2026 major came in part because valorant was there to provide competition

I hate what the LOUD victory MEANS, I literally said I have nothing against THEM, their win would just be meaningless because they are like that buzz lightyear meme from toystory where all of them look fancy and cool but they are exactly the same. I love their story, going from middle of the pack to now champs gf, their skill, their story, it's AMAZING. However, Riot build VCT In a way that I cannot enjoy their victory because I as a viewer EXPECT they will fail in 2027. I would love them to stick around and actually even build a dynasty in 2027, because valorant needs one. And given how passionate loud players and fans are, they would make for a perfect fucking villain if they win plenty of events

because they feel exactly like LEV and LEV felt exactly like NS and NS felt exactly like the underdogs of the past. Nothing against them as players really, it's just given the nature of vct you naturally expect them to fall off in 2027, and that is bad, you can't enjoy their current victory because of this

Warning: long thread, cs fan opinion, occasional vct watcher opinion, yap thread, TL;DR in the end
I don't like LOUD. not because the players did something wrong, or their org did something wrong. On the contrary, their run from vct americas bottom feeder in january to champs finalists in 10 months is an amazing story, and their entire roster is playing amazing valorant and displaying amazing skill. It's just that given the meta and the competitive reality of vct, there's nothing indicating they will stick around as a permanent trophy contender. And that's what VCT lacks. Teams which actually stick around at the top.
Every sport creates narratives, something which makes sport interesting for most people. No util or tactical brilliance can replace the sheer human side of the sport, which are narratives and stories of people involved. If we strip LOUD's story of names and the game itself, it's: ''a team of young rookies/talented players who had to rebuild and change roster several times before sneaking into the biggest stage against the odds and going on a cinderella run, defeating opponents of different tiers, leagues and prestige, on their path to write their names into vct history.''. It's an amazing, emotional and ''feel good'' story. One of promise, change and beating all the odds. Ajax in UCL 2018-2019, Monaco 2016-2017, morocco 2022, 2021 bengals in the nfl, spurs in nba. When it happens, it's a thrilling story and you genuinely want to cheer for these guys because potentially, you are cheering for the future of the sport.
However, a narrative can never get old. And it's a problem for valorant. Same narrative for LOUD applies heavily to: LEV 2026, NS 2026, NRG 2025, T1 2025, EDG 2024, Heretics 2024, GEN.G 2024, EG 2023. And, given that vct only has 3 events per year, and such high rate of underdog/cinderella runs, it turns out there were more cinderella runs than ''tournament favourite winners''. And when every winner is some cinderella, or an underdog or overcoming the odds, the value of the ''underdog'' run loses its sport meaning. Underdogs don't happen every single season or every single year in UCL. That is why when they do it surprises you and makes you watch their games. And the bigger issue here is not that there are a lot of underdogs, it's what happens after their wins.
They do not stick around. They don't turn into dynasties or permanent trophy contenders. With every meta change and every new international LAN, the cycle just repeats itself. The winner of yesterday is gone and you have a new underdog to cheer for. Valorant feels like a constant revolving door of players and faces on big stages. just 3 months ago everyone was discussing how neon and blowz and sato are the future of valorant and can dominate americas for years, put LATAM on the map.... And now they didn't even make it to champs. Just 10 months ago NS went 10-1 at Santiago and people talked about Korea potentially turning valorant into LOL 2.0.... And since then they missed VCT masters london and had a really mediocre vct champs finishing 7-8th.
We are quick to call every run a fluke, if they fail, but using this logic, Who is NOT a fluke? PRX, fnatic, G2, and that's it? The biggest problem of this constant change of faces at the top is that there are no names which stick around and visit every single Masters/Champs as a favourite. There's no cs vitality, there's no faker and t1, there's no real madrid and there's no kansas city chiefs. as someone who watches VCT occasionally, I had to google who neon/blowz/spike were in June, and now I need to do the same for darker/lukxo/tkzin. And every time I find out it's a rookie or someone who was on a mid team a few months ago. Yet if I watch LOL, and google faker, I see greatness. I know that's a guy who has 6 Worlds, 2 MSI's and 10 LCK titles. I immediately understand that's a guy who is firmly the goat and every next game he plays is just adding to his immense legacy. If someone new watches CS and decides to google niko, they see 10 HLTV Top 20's, 10 MVPs, 2 million dollars in prize money and 18 LAN's won. A new viewer IMMEDIATELY understands that's a legend, someone who stuck around for 10 years and has been a perrenial trophy and mvp contender.
Yet this constant change of players prevents the same in valorant. valorant has no goat, no era, no giant and no goliaths. It has only 10 underdog runs. And when every run is an underdog, no run is. It loses its magic and results in people getting bored. That is why vierwership dipped. That is why 4/5 top peak viewerships at escharts were prx games. They are the only team who frequently without fault visits international LANs and has players who were here 4 years ago. Meanwhile with teams like ns, loud and leviatan, fans don't have enough time to build the same connection. Hopefully, LOUD breaks the cycle and actually becomes one of the best teams in the world for years to come, as valorant desperately needs teams whose legacy stretches years.

TL;DR: Valorant suffers from constant cinderella runs, underdogs and it has a lot to do with frequent meta changes. Valorant struggles in viewership because vct fails to build up their talents. No winner feels special because deep down most people understand they will fall off cuz they didn't get the next meta as well as the current one. That results in lack of personalities, dips in viewership and a feeling that every team is a fluke.

we don't know about china cuz they have heat index, that's their stat instead of viewership (like for example cs had 200 mil heat index I believe at the major). escharts shows 400k at the western platforms and that's low af

thanks for building a system where being a non-partner is a humiliation ritual riot!

400k viewers on a top 3-4 game is fucking sad

open qualifier is pure slop if you don't have a fair system which separates the elite from the teams who have to attend open quals. one single tournament is not it bro

it's just me being surprised at how much china loves cs. like not a single chinese player in cologne playoffs, yet they had like 200 mil heat index and niko trended #1 weibo. and like pretty sure london had like 90-120 mil heat index and cs had like 180-200 or something (twitter screenshot, might not recall correctly). still wild how big cs is in popularity in china

norwegian, 100t, rain is right there buddy. carrying 100t cs like he carried faze

chinese cs fans love tyloo and lynn vision, yet they also like religiously love niko, m0nesy, donk, etc. Somehow they can't develop the same in valorant

china can cheer for teams outside of china (e.g. shanghai 2024 major, falcons in cs, spirit in dota), yet vct deadass feels like they paid these people to fill ourt the arena

there is not even a need to compare with cs, there the production/crowd factor was always better, this shit is straight up ass compared to 2023.