Meta & Termi | VLR.gg

#1

dekoy

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What is up with people shitting on the triple duelist comp? Calling Termi lazy?

idk how good of a coach he is, but from a meta-defining perspective, he

Started the breach Haven meta in vision striker days
Invented the triple initiator comp on Ascent for DRX
First teams to demonstrate harbor on Icebox in an international stage
Dominated Fracture with RB neon with stun lineups for B-tower and more.
Pioneered the double duelist meta with double dive (yoru + waylay)
Now created a new comp that works in 3+ maps that allows players to keep their comfort picks

you can shit on him as a coach and strats, but in terms of meta innovation, bro is unmatched

#2

Ranger45

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w post

#3

GarbanzoEnjoyer

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They're also nearly undefeated on Abyss with like three different comps

Had every team at champs '25 banning it or getting rolled

#6

dekoy

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they are 15/2 on Abyss since the team was made, i cannot remember the last time almost every single team banned a specific map against a team just because they are so dominant on it

#9

Wunkey

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100% win rate on the international stage as well.

#22

hiroeats

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This should’ve been EG but everybody let it through during Tokyo and got bodied 💀

#4

Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one

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Started the breach Haven meta in vision striker days

The shittiest haven meta period. We got the Neon Phoenix now and its so much cooler

#7

camefentran

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the best

#10

Nigellomeister

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L vyse fan

#5

hotshot_

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me and termi needs to be stopped!

#8

Galactc

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Damn he should be an analyst

#11

Wunkey

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I mean, in my opinion he's already the best meta-defining coach of all time. Sure you might not like him for other reasons but I don't think there's any denying this if triple duelist ends up sticking.

Off the top of my head he's also known for early-usage of Viper and Astra plus his counter-meta of going back to Jett during the Chamber era.

#12

xDazeline

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and yet people were saying L termi W frost back then

#13

GarbanzoEnjoyer

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Idt that had much to do with their coaching ability considering the team matchup was kinda one-sided

#14

xDazeline

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yea ik, i'm just a frost hater as of today bcs he put primmie on deadlock for 2 maps >:(

#15

jixk

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"Started the breach Haven meta in vision striker days" you shouldn't bring this up its literally a running joke how bad breach is on haven
"Invented the triple initiator comp on Ascent for DRX" bad comp tbh
"First teams to demonstrate harbor on Icebox in an international stage" mid lowk
yoru waylay is sick AC level task but still credit where its due
triple duelist is sick too ngl phoenix waylay neon if it doesnt get insta shit on by better teams and was solely used against dfm and prolly ts to throw off anti teams

#16

fveaa

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your first two are just obviously bad in 2026 but for their times they were all extremely disruptive and teams had to adapt

also harbour has never been mid on icebox

#17

dekoy

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yup, back then breach was THE agent on Haven, with 80%+ pickrate

#18

jixk

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what about his non mirror win rate i swear even in like 22/23 it was really bad

#19

shadowvlr

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no it was always good. and most of the top teams in 22/23 on haven played breach

#21

jixk

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i just checked his non mirror win rate kinda sucks ngl the top won cause they were the top teams in spite of breach from what it looks like people didn't like comp experimenting back then the craziest thing we saw in 23 was fracture sova

#29

GarbanzoEnjoyer

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NMWR is kinda a fraudulent stat without more context bc when you have 80+ percent pickrate the sample size for NM matchups becomes lower, and then also consider how many matchups are just a team diff even within the same tier.

#30

jixk

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that team diff could work or against it and generally balances out especially across YEARS of breach play if anything it would probably skew towards breach bad since alot of high level teams stuck withh him and boosted it more since they have more games played over bad breach teams

and i don't think breach has ever been 80+ in total or even on his maps since 22 this much consistency 22-now is more then enough proof that breach sucks and prolly sucked

it is a fraudulent stat but most stats are fraudulent ngl unless its like 20+ or sumn i dont even think the the same goes for -20 ngl

#20

jixk

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Breach has had a bad non mirror win rate since forever 22/23 so the haven comp isn't allat even then

no i said it was a mid argument since he didn't create the comp probably for harbor icebox even then sage clears imo i rate wall higher then cove on that map even with new cove

and im pretty sure it was used else where in Tier 1/probably got used by another team around the same time not enough for drx to popularize it i could be wrong about this part

#23

Prase

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Idk if I remember correctly who was first but 100T did the triple initiator comps first I feel on Split & Ascent. With Steel, Hiko and Ethan playing initiators and nitr0 Asuna filling in for smokes duelist

Now I’ll have to go back and verify both DRX and 100T’s past games from dinosaur era

#26

dekoy

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DRX 5/22/21 https://www.vlr.gg/101860/drx-vs-damwon-gaming-champions-tour-korea-stage-2-challengers-w1/?map=2

100T 8/11/21 https://www.vlr.gg/29396/100-thieves-vs-xset-champions-tour-north-america-stage-3-challengers-playoffs-ubsf/?map=2

DRX was a little earlier, idt 100T ever played triple senti on split

#28

Prase

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Oh okay thanks for pulling up the stats tho.

I meant triple ini on split not senti

#24

thatpower

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I remember teams like fnatic used “vision strikers” as a callout on haven. Idk if they still do tho

#25

traffy067

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drx started the tejo meta first

#27

Miyuky

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He created the Neon Waylay aswell btw