If Trophies were all that mattered
Kiles= Aspas
Sacy & Tenz > Aspas
d3ffo = f0rsaken
But we all know that's stupid. Not a single soul even considered Ethan in their Top 5 till yesterday but vlr is calling him the goat now lmao. Real goats are players who stay at the top level of players in their role for a consistently long time, years. And the top 5 real goats (in no particular order) are Aspas Alfajer Boaster Chronicle Derke Forsaken.
Chron has world class stats. One of the highest rated players in every event he ever played in. Just MVPed EWC and champs 21. 7 international finals.
Ethan has 3 finals and 0.98 &1.06 stats in his two wins.
This is elite tier disingenuous or clueless talk
statpadding against shit teams while u have leo and alfa on your team is nothing
he was top 3 at tokyo but when you use your brain you can see they played 4 matches, and one of them was against prx with a streamer instead of their MVP, and the other was against EG with visa issues
and the top 2 were FNC payers averaging .1 rating more than chronicle
this is the story of chronicles life, He was tied with Nats for rating at berlin, but nats had like 50 more ACS and clearly impacted the rounds more, and the only reason it was tied was because chronicle was surviving lots of rounds.. because nats is the best player itw
USE YOUR BRAIN
Shut the fuck up with your nonsensical bullshit. At this point i assume he must have fucked your mother or something.
I have read enough of this obsessed delusional drivel of you on this topic by now im not gonna read your shit no more.
mfw when you login to vlr to discuss the most talked about topic and congo1 is crying because his "goat" went -10 in a finals against 3 tier 2 players and can't accept it lol
Chron isn't just called goat for his trophies, otherwise sacy and tenz would be in the discussion. Chron has great stats and performance consistently for years
being the third best player on your team for 80% of your career doesn't really make you the greatest player ever does it
michael jordan was hailed as a basketball god before he won a single playoff game, thats greatness
greatness is like dropping 60 with the flu, or in aspas case dropping a kill record with the flu
i cant name 5 "great" chronicle moments like the derke 11-3 comeback, aspas 82 then 80 kills, leo dropping a historical game while sick with covid, tenz' dominant iceland,
neither does he have a underdog run like ethan or demon1, or forsaken,
there is nothing "great" about anything he's ever done, he's just been at the right place at the right time, thats not great thats good management lol
My bad I wrote 6 down, remove either f0rsaken or Boaster depending on what you value
Two great runs and barely showed up to internationals other times, the consistency isn't there.
0.98 and 1.06 in his two wins.
Chron, aspas, alfajer, derke, tenz, yay all clear. Even meteor tbh.
ah yes, let's bring up stats for a hard support player. masterclass.
regardless of whether or not you wanna count trophies, he's the only player to have won champs twice. picked up igling again and led his team to a win. most people would regard him to be one of the best support players itw. i can literally only agree with chron and aspas there being above him, maybe tenz.
And what the fuck is chron? Bro is playing breach and every bitch role the team needs. Ethan is just not that caliber of player. I am not putting Zellsis in all timer talks for winning madrid
chron is better than ethan. you never saw me suggesting otherwise now did you? id happily agree with someone who says chron is the best player itw. ethan is simply also up there in top 5. just because chron can frag while being a hard support player it doesn't mean every other hard support player has to be held to the same standard. also, ethan is a LOT more passive than chron. and he igld in 2025.
He never led his team with his individual performance. This event was won by brawk and skuba. Like ethan is not even remotely close to them its huge gap.
Fringe top 10 i might accept and thats is really pushing it. Even Forsaken who suffers from the same problem has done more. He at least has Toronto where he carried. Ethan carried none
ah yes, let's bring up stats for a hard support player. masterclass. (part 2)
don't waste my time if all you can talk about is stats. ethan excels with utility and his calling.
he's the only player to have won champs twice
So we're using arbitrary shit now?
Sacy is the only player to have won both masters and champs
The Fnatic core are the only ones to win back to back
Chronicle is the only one to have won 3 trophies
Aspas has done neither of these things, why are you putting him at the top? Because you know performance matters.
yea bro!!! "i'm gonna single out the 1 point i disagree with and fully disregard everything else said because i don't agree with the person!"
good job. i also said he's one of the best supports itw who recently picked up igling again to lead his team to a win. i mentioned the trophies because theyre a thing that happened, not because i think thats the reason why hes among the best. it is simply a point.
i simply believe he's an exceptional support player who can also frag when he needs to. while clearly being an exceptional igl. (also won 2 champs trophies btw, im sure youll single this point out again ill make it easy for you)
I singled that out because "exceptional support player who can also frag" also could apply to Alfajer Chron Sacy Tenz and Leo, who also have 2 or more trophies, WITH BETTER ALL TIME PERFORMANCE AND CONSISTENCY
two cinderella champs wins vs consistent top event finishes from players like 80% of FNC & PRX and Aspas, maybe Sacy n Meteor if you stretch.
like let's not kid ourselves
trophies matter a little but consistency matters more
I find it ironic that the same people who call Chron the goat will complain when a player like brawk or f0rsaken get the MVP because of their impact despite not having the most kills. And then they will use the exact same impact argument to defend Chron as the goat.
brawk mvp was deserved. alfajer played better than f0rsaken on Toronto but if you're only gonna give mvp to the winning team then f0rsaken also deserved it.
i think chron's the goat and don't think brawk's mvp was undeserving. not sure where this argument is even coming from, never seen this happen.
So does every player in the goat convo. Also the only thing Chron has on any other player in the goat convo is the amount of trophies he's gotten which he was carried in the majority of the ones he's won.
genuinely really getting bored of "goat" debates bcos theres no way to please everyone, what if we just didnt have one? all of the top players can be one depending on the metrics. what people value more and what playstyle they like, the region theyre from, and a million other stuff. its so pointless.
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