If LOUD won LOCKIN, Aspas would be undisputed GOAT

#1

nAtsbiggestfan2

Why are we so results orientated regarding the GOAT debate. Like can we actually examine what goes on in the games, like KDA, impact, rating instead of "whoever won".

Let's say if Aspas beat Derke in that 50/50 1v1 on icebox map 5. The game closes out at 13-11 LOUD win, for example. Then Aspas would be undisputed GOAT as both Chronicle and Aspas have the same amount of trophies (2). But Aspas' top 3 placements in 2023 and 2024 champs would be enough to scale him into undisputed GOAT category.

So when discussing GOATs, trophies really shouldn't matter AS much as the community rates it.

It's really crazy, because the difference between a world of Aspas undisputed goat (alternate timeline) and Chronicle vs Aspas H2H goat (current timeline) isn't even in the control of Aspas or Chronicle. If Tuyz didn't drop a 10/20 kda stinker on icebox map 5 lock in, then we would be viewing Aspas as undisputed goat

#2

Azzelastia

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No one gives a shit about lock in, mickey mouse tourney.

#9

Mca

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The titles argument is retarded.

Device has 4 majors but no one thinks het's better than S1mple.

#11

9tails

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only in valorant

#14

sentinelmain377

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here is a nearly-full chron argument. I could add a lot more, but u would prob start struggling to read everything.
also to solve ur problem, stop debating with ppl who only look at trophies.

Chronicle:
Role: Initiator -> Flex (Controller, Duelist) -> Flex (Sentinel, Initiator)
International Events attended: 10/16
Top 1: 3
Top 2: 6
Top 4: 8
Top 8: 10
International MVPs:

Berlin 2021 (1.26 rating) - according to Liquipedia: https://liquipedia.net/valorant/VALORANT_Champions_Tour/Statistics

International Ratings: Average = 1.16

Total Rounds: 2669
- 1.26 * (306 rounds)
- 1.19 * (356 rounds)
- 1.10 * (307 rounds)
- 1.19 * (210 rounds)
- 0.94 * (270 rounds)
- N/A
- 1.21 * (293 rounds)
- 1.13 * (419 rounds)
- 1.30 * (279 rounds)
- 1.16 * (229 rounds)
Average rating with rounds for each stat being weighted: 1.16408392656 -> 1.16

Tier 1 Teams: https://www.vlr.gg/355247/top-10-teams-of-every-year

GAMBIT (#1 2021)
FNATIC (#1 2023, #8 2024, current: #1-4 2025)

................................................................................................................................

Aspas:
Role: Duelist
International Events attended: 10/16
Top 1: 1
Top 2: 2
Top 4: 5
Top 8: 7
International MVPs:

Champs 2022 (0.99 rating) - according to Liquipedia: https://liquipedia.net/valorant/VALORANT_Champions_Tour/Statistics

International Ratings: Average = 1.12

Total Rounds: 2525
- 1.18 (240 rounds)
- 1.04 (136 rounds)
- 0.99 (366 rounds)
- 1.11 (380 rounds)
- 1.11 (80 rounds)
- 1.15 (515 rounds)
- N/A
- 1.14 (407 rounds)
- 0.53 (71 rounds)
- 1.33 (256 rounds)
Average rating with rounds being weighted: 1.12

Tier 1 Teams: https://www.vlr.gg/355247/top-10-teams-of-every-year

LOUD (#2 2022, #4 2023)
LEV (#7 2024)
MIBR (current: #13 2025)

Conclusion: Chronicle is better.

#15

alienista1

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ewc = masters? nah this guy needs help 😭

#16

sentinelmain377

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?

brazilian fan when he finds out he's wrong:

"let me bring out insults instead of trying to give logical arguments back at em"
"my goat is only decided off vibes. true/objective facts do not matter to me"

#19

alienista1

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if we take ewc out of your equation (mickey mouse event), and look at shanghai masters where aspas played well and chronicle played bad, both have almost identical international stats. considering aspas peak is MUCH higher and also their regional performance, the answer to who is better is clear.

#20

sentinelmain377

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explain why EWC is mickey? don't base it off vibes. give reasons. also if u remove EWC, Chron is at 1.145 -> 1.15 still. Higher than Aspas while not even being on duelist.

EWC qualified the BEST teams in the world using VCT Stage 1 and ewc qualifers (unlike other off-season tournaments which just invite teams) and made the teams compete for a higher prize pool than Masters Bangkok/Toronto. Doesn't seem mickey to me.

shanghai stats cant be counted cuz no ratings in China. also it still would very LIKELY have chron being higher than aspas since both barely played any rounds in that tournament.

#24

alienista1

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ewc is mickey because the schedule was a mess (cn teams traveling, apac teams with stage 2 in 2 days), format was trash (bo1, single elim, roster swaps, online, different patch), and it’s not part of the official VCT cycle (no points, quals unfair). money is okay, but prestige? nowhere near masters. calling it the same level is just delusional

#25

sentinelmain377

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I think Champs > Toronto >= EWC > Bangkok

format was not trash.
there were no bo1 elimination matches
single elim does not make a tournament invalid. is every CS major invalid?
China's qualifiers were 2 weeks before all other regions.
all regions had stage 2 within 2-5 days. it really does not make an event with a 1.25 mil PRIZE POOL invalid.

also even without EWC, Chron has better stats than aspas. so this argument is irrelevant to the goat debate.

Chron > Aspas.

#27

alienista1

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i get you are trying to save your region’s terrible year by hyping up ewc, but its not gonna work bro, just give up

continue thread →

#21

Rev1va1

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how about we look at toronto?

#13

Yoplemeo

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LOCK/IN disrespect in big 2025 🥀

#3

beayuh

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water is drinkable

#4

glittering_yard

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Aspas is still the undisputed GOAT

#5

beayuh

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not undisputed but yes the goat

#6

nAtsbiggestfan2

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yes, MOST people rank Aspas as the GOAT, but its not like 90%. It's more of a 70% aspas 29% chronicle 1% nAts right now.

#7

ayo67tuff

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this a what if, lock in was mickey mouse, etc.
no point in this

#8

shrike-

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what's funny is that i was rooting for FNC in this tourney because the brazilian fans were unbearable, but now i wish LOUD had actually closed it out

#22

cioccolat

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you fell for the TARIK/shanks propaganda dude

#10

ariLMFAO

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if LOUD won LOCKIN we wouldve seen Cloud9 qualify to an international by the way

#12

dimmed

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IF

#17

TM06Nick

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Lock in and EWC are top mickey tournaments

#18

KiwiJuice

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It's simple, People who rate chronicle over aspas look at numbers. People who rate aspas over chronicle look at the game

#23

cioccolat

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i just know you tipped your fedora after writing this lmao

#32

KiwiJuice

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That is not what i was going for

#28

dimmed

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but aspas has better numbers? it'd be more people who rate chron over aspas rate the util, flexibility, accolades over the stat farming of Aspas

#26

EMEAstan

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Chronicle is simply better than Aspas overall lmao he's usually better internationally as well

#31

uwukitten

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I agree with your point that trophies are overvalued but chronicle has been a top tier flex for 4 years (hardest role). people only see impact as getting 4 kills in a round and not players winning the important duels that actually decide the outcome of the round.

I think it's debatable who's better but I agree trophies are overrated because of how close some of these finals were