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Goat of Valorant

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#1
Icarus_101

I dont get it . When people say "X player is the goat of valorant" what are they looking for: stats? , most mvps? or perhaps flashy rounds?. For me personally it would be the player that has the most trophies (Regional + International) with international carrying more weight of course. Because it seems like the most logical thing. The guy who consistently beat everyone always is the Goat.

PS: I just want to understand what yall think, I actually dont know who has the most trophies so far

#2
jawn
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sacy your goat?

#6
Icarus_101
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I mean if he has the most trophies, Internationally and regionally then yes hes my goat

#10
jawn
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regional trophies are weird, what do we count as regional? franchising stage 1 and 2?

#15
Icarus_101
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Both cause all the players we are discussing have been there from the start

#16
jawn
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but pre-franchising regionals were a bit weird, 2021 had like 50 regionals including a regional masters event, which one of them count?

#22
Icarus_101
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The riot officiated ones only for arguements sake

#26
jawn
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that would mean tenz has like 8 trophies

#32
Icarus_101
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As he should be my secret goat

#33
jawn
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welcome to the cause comrade

#3
Gummybears
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they cry when its not aspas

#4
1dan1x
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CHRONICLE

#9
bullet194
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oh shit, here we go again

#5
Shadow_Monarch
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Technically most trophies but I just go by who I think is the best player in the game in general. Not everyone plays the game or joins pro at the same time too.

#7
Dudhi
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well thats the reason people get so heated over this topic. different metrics lead to different outcomes. some look purely at consistency and mechanical skill while others only count trophies

#53
Icarus_101
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Thats...Actually a very good take and a sensible one too

#8
bullet194
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if aspas get 2 world champions, 100% goat, because he will the only one.

#13
Icarus_101
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IF* and yes he would be the greats of all time but again what were we looking at here trophies or stats , or consistent stats + Trophies?

#18
bullet194
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for now, to me he still the goat. But if he get the second champions, its oficially. in all times the discussions are = aspas or leo? aspas or derke? aspas or x player? every time is Aspas the goat.

#21
Icarus_101
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Based on what metrics though? I dont really care abt the player. why should aspas be in the discussion matters more to me than anything else and thats what I am trying to figure out

#27
bullet194
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1- Consistent 2- Highly skilled 3- World champion (chronicle has 0 champions) 4- and most importantly (he always stood out in every team he played for, unlike chronicle who was always an average player). Aspas crazy plays, insane impact in the games and a lot other things. Chronicle today = -5, insane impact, lol.

#37
Icarus_101
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I think chronicle has all the 3 in most games I watched him so Im not going to judge based on a single game . as for champs trophies I think he has 2 masters trophies does that beat aspas's champs trophy? (I want to also include lock in even though most people consider it mickey mouse which is ridiculous considering most teams that showed were the best at that time)

#54
dimmed
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Chronicle has 3 masters trophies

#57
Icarus_101
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Wait three? I though he had berlin and tokyo whats the third one?

#58
Katharize
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Mickey mouse tournament

#61
dimmed
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lock/in

#62
Icarus_101
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I removed lock in to have a fair argument (Which is stupid considering everyone showed up with their A game literally the best teams from every region came to play )

#11
Good_ping_Bad_aim
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regional domination + international mvp + >2 international titles + consistent performance during the active career.

no one really fits in except aspas and chronicle
but both lack one of the criteria. aspas has one title while chronicle only has a joint mvp.

#12
Coronos
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Here is a similar example : Dani Alves has more trophies than Cristiano Ronaldo. But it does not make Dani Alves better than Cristiano

Team trophies should not be used in the individual comparisons

#20
Icarus_101
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I get what you are saying but its easier to talk about football due players being awarded the Ballon d'or every year (I think) if we considered that + the impact they have on their respective national team. Its one of the reasons why messi is the goat of football no?

#30
Coronos
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Obviously messi is one of the goats but we cannot say solely coz of ballon dors, coz they have been quite controvertial and its not like cristiano has only 1 or 2 ,he has 5 as well. I think its mix of everything along with how much of a threat everyone feels about u. Like teams make their game plan to anti strat aspas, so i think that counts a bit imo

#66
cumbackderkepls
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Bro by your logic Karn Sharma is better than Kohli.

#14
Zaba
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Meteor goat

#17
glittering_yard
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Its a mix of being the best, consistency and trophy

The problem with Chronicle is that he was never really the best player on his team, in his best year trophy-wise, he was Fnatic's fourth best player, only better than Boaster. There is also the fact that he doesnt have a Champions trophy. Thats like calling a LOL player that won 3 MSI's, but never won Worlds, the GOAT. Or CS player that never won the Major, but won other internationals, the GOAT.

Winning the biggest trophy of the esport is a minimum requirement for these GOAT debates everywhere. Only in VCT community people try to hype up players that never won the biggest trophy. Probably because all 4 Champions winning teams were not favorites to win the event, and their favorite players only won Masters

#59
dimmed
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People already value champs over masters, but I think its dumb asf to say to be the GOAT of valorant you have to win a champs because effectively champs is just a slightly bigger masters. Like if this was European football, where there's only 1 champions league per year then ofc I would agree but the difference between masters and champs is not big enough for you to say you need to win a champs to be the GOAT conversation.

#64
glittering_yard
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Im just saying how it is everywhere

s1mple only became the GOAT in csgo after he won his first and only Major ever in 2021, before that he was "s0mple" despite winning internationals and MVP's before

Astralis has won several international events in CS, lets say they won 10 internationals in CS. They are not 10x World Champions, they are 4x World Champions because they won 4 Majors

Faker is the GOAT of LOL for many reasons and great individual achievements, but what really puts him above everyone else is his 5 WORLDS. Despite winning 2 extra MSI's (that would be a Masters in Valorant) he is called 5x World Champion, not 7

#19
Ahnri
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I don’t think trophies are relevant at all tbh. No individual player wins trophies. Teams win trophies it influences it but isn’t definitive for me. Simply consistently being at the top internationally or having high peaks internationally that balance out a lack of consistency. I don’t understand the idea of measuring the individual value of a player by team based means. Seems clearly counterintuitive.

#23
Katharize
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Alfajer is goatttttt

#24
lolapola
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s1mple vs zywoo. cultural impact + top player vs most trophies + top player.
although chron is a way worse zywoo. who only played in a superteam this year unlike chron.
most casual players of the games know s1mple / aspas respectively of the game, but not zywoo / chron that much.
aspas made teams better unlike chron who played in the same core for several years with better players overall.

#25
Katharize
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Truth bomb, single braincells cant handle

#29
lolapola
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for real man, biased mfs

#28
Icarus_101
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I can see what youre trying to get at but how do we decide what kind of cultural impact a player had on the game , The community ? we can be too biased in that regard the way someone changed we saw and play the game? that would be tenz then no?

#31
Katharize
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what meta defining thing has tenz done? Lol

#36
Realfacts
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What actual meta defining thing has aspas done?

#40
Katharize
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Where aspas come here from now?

If we're talking about duelists then it is probably derke who had the most impact on this game meta wise

Also nats for much of how viper is used nowadays

#45
Realfacts
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Well aspas is considered the goat by many so he must have done some meta defining things right? Like what do you mean by meta defining here?
Something like kk popularizing attack side awping? Or vision strikers with advancement in game's macro aspect?

#50
Katharize
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Yes that's exactly what I mean, it makes the game far more enjoyable to watch

#52
Katharize
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I don't think we have a goat personality till now in valorant, like league has faker, and cs has s1mple

#38
Icarus_101
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I think we all tried to play like tenz once no? thats cultural impact if I ever seen one

#44
Katharize
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If you're just talking about jett then I think it would be this guy https://www.vlr.gg/player/10584/seoldam

#46
Icarus_101
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Dude I dont think half of vlr knows this guy, A player who is well known and consistently brought in new players into the game and also have like "a voice" that would be heard would be cultural impact for me and for me personally that guy is tenz

#47
Katharize
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Yeah but I'm still right, tenz didn't do anything special, he was just famous

#49
lolapola
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Yeah, and also he was from CSGO. He was already known.

#39
ACS289
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the way jett was played in 2021 lol

#43
Katharize
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Every single team played jett every game, tenz didn't do anything special

He didn't really change or innovate how the game is played instead he was just a super famous personality that too from csgo c9

#34
Realfacts
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Well if you just ask casual val fans then yeah majority will say tenz is the goat. Just overall influence wise tenz is val goat.

#35
lolapola
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Tenz is from the CS days though, most people know him from that time, unlike aspas who emerged from valorant and helped both valorant as a game and vct. Otherwise Tenz is more famous. S1mple didn't come from any game already popular, he made csgo. Similarly Mcgregor made ufc. He lost to Khabib, it's an individual game unlike val but still is the GOAT of ufc for some people.

Now imagine valorant, a team game and a guy who played with the best vs the guy who solo made other teams better consistently.

#42
Icarus_101
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I dont get it like loud was a raid boss to me that entire roster was literally best of brazil so how can we say aspas has not played with the best , when he played in loud like all the players on that team was built different

#48
lolapola
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Short amount of time, 8 months vs chron's whole fnatic career. Overall fnatic players are absolutely better. All are top players, derke kaajak alfajer boaster leo crashies.

#51
Icarus_101
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okay then how would we measure it then. standings? on how far could aspas go in the internationals compared to chronicle? like the arguement he played in superteam vs A guy that a raised a team should be backed by something tangible no? what use are stats and standings if you dont win anything at the end of the day?

#56
lolapola
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By that logic every team who doesn't win should disband and stop. Except PRX everyone should leave VCT after Toronto. He got top 3 thrice in three different champs with different teams, which were better after he joined them. He made them better. You can have a look at MIBR it's so recent. Aspas goes top 3 in all the champs till date with different teams VS Chronicle with the same team and better players. Without Aspas all the teams were ass.

#60
Icarus_101
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He won 1 champs and got top 3 with loud now I wont take loud as some random team thats not going to happen. But he did get top 3 with leviathan in champs and yes based on this performance its a valid take that aspas improves teams that hes in but the sample size is small , he only made 1 masters appearance with loud in rekjavik and none after that. You have very little to show for that statement

#41
nutab1e
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Flair

#55
sh1lll
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Current Skill level needs to be taken account imo not just how decorated they are.

#63
ark2
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consistency is a thing a lot of people have said, but i think the big thing that sets him over the top for me is the fact that he completely lifted teams from nothing to championship-caliber. look at loud after aspas left, look at lev before and after aspas played before them (maybe sato will bring them back but not yet), look at mibr before he joined. he completely revitalizes teams out of nowhere and gets them to deep champs runs. its hard to say that chronicle can’t do that bc we just havent seen it happen yet but its undeniable that chronicle has always had the better cast on his rosters. maybe he’d be able to do it but until he does, im gonna put a lot more respect on aspas’s name for doing it 3 times now.

(ofc if fnc win champs i cant really argue with 4 trophies vs 1 and ill have to admit chronicle is the goat but i think i can give more leeway with 3 trophies with super rosters)

#65
Icarus_101
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https://www.vlr.gg/post/5484716/goat-of-valorant, I answered that in another (thread?, post?) need to hit the sack or I would have chatted around a bit more

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