Genuine question.
For those choosing not to watch EWC, what ethical principle are you using?
Is it:
that consumers shouldn't support organizations with serious ethical issues,
that state-sponsored events are fundamentally different from corporate ones,
that sportswashing creates a unique obligation to boycott,
or something else?
I'm watching because I enjoy high-level Valorant, but I'm interested in understanding where people draw the line.
im not even boycotting its just my sleep schedule is so bad that i wake up at noon and cant even watch the games
i don’t watch it because i’m asleep for most of the games
i also don’t care about it because it’s separate from the actual circuit and except for lining your pockets a little more it doesn’t do anything to cement your legacy. there’s nothing about this event except the millions of dollars the saudi government dumps into it that makes it one worth people’s time
State sponsored is the biggest turn off ig. Saudi is trying to monopolize esports
Gdgdfdgtttt [#4]im not even boycotting its just my sleep schedule is so bad that i wake up at noon and cant even watch the games
ewc has actually fixed my sleep schedule so there's at least one positive from the event
I_LOVE_LESS [#3]morals and Less isn't there so its mickey mouse club house
less hasn't been anywhere in years?
healzera [#9]less hasn't been anywhere in years?
he's been living in your head for months now so
Bigfish [#6]State sponsored is the biggest turn off ig. Saudi is trying to monopolize esports
That's fair. Is your objection that it's state-sponsored specifically, or that it's Saudi Arabia specifically?
For example, if another government with a better human rights record funded a similar event, would you have the same issue?
shrike- [#5]i don’t watch it because i’m asleep for most of the games
i also don’t care about it because it’s separate from the actual circuit and except for lining your pockets a little more it doesn’t do anything to cement your legacy. there’s nothing about this event except the millions of dollars the saudi government dumps into it that makes it one worth people’s time
If EWC replaced Champions and had the exact same teams and prestige, would your opinion change? I'm trying to separate whether your issue is with the tournament itself or with Saudi sponsorship.
I don't care for it the event whatsoever, it's morally dubious and nAts isn't there
I attended etc 2025 irl
val crowd was boring
quite frankly it lacks hype
I think it has its place tho
but firmly as less than a masters
EthanAndBailey [#12]If EWC replaced Champions and had the exact same teams and prestige, would your opinion change? I'm trying to separate whether your issue is with the tournament itself or with Saudi sponsorship.
yes, my argument is that EWC has little to no prestige; if it becomes an actual champions event where a team can vie for it from the beginning of the year, then sure
the only thing EWC has going for it is the massive amount of money
As someone who hates Team Falcons not even I think EWC should be seriously 'boycotted' but I think it's understand why people don't like it. Still, it is a real tournament and not some tier 4 mickey. The fact that it's not prestigious enough to cement someone's legacy or that it's right after a Masters is irrelevant. CS2 has one S-tier tournament where top teams compete one after another.
I_LOVE_LESS [#3]morals and Less isn't there so its mickey mouse club house
can you elaborate on those morals?
dimmed [#13]I don't care for it the event whatsoever, it's morally dubious and nAts isn't there
What makes it morally dubious to you? Is it Saudi Arabia specifically, the fact that it's state-sponsored, the idea of sportswashing, or something else?
EthanAndBailey [#17]can you elaborate on those morals?
pretty much everything u listed
i won't support events being hosted by a country or a company that are known for human rights violations and i think it should be illegal for the government of a country to sponsor sporting events
healzera [#9]less hasn't been anywhere in years?
He was at Bangkok last year
I_LOVE_LESS [#19]pretty much everything u listed
i won't support events being hosted by a country or a company that are known for human rights violations and i think it should be illegal for the government of a country to sponsor sporting events
Since we're on VLR, I assume most of us—including me—still follow Riot's esports. That's why I'm curious: what makes watching VCT acceptable considering Riot's previous Sexual Harrasment scandals but watching EWC cross the ethical line?
I_LOVE_LESS [#10]he's been living in your head for months now so
why would i ever think about him genuinely what makes you believe im like that
EthanAndBailey [#22]Since we're on VLR, I assume most of us—including me—still follow Riot's esports. That's why I'm curious: what makes watching VCT acceptable considering Riot's previous Sexual Harrasment scandals but watching EWC cross the ethical line?
individuals doing bad things while representing a company then being fired for it is a lot different than a government that has legal slavery trying to cover up their wrongdoings and forge a new positive image
EthanAndBailey [#11]That's fair. Is your objection that it's state-sponsored specifically, or that it's Saudi Arabia specifically?
For example, if another government with a better human rights record funded a similar event, would you have the same issue?
Yeah i think goverments should not be involved in any sports whether it is esports or actual sports
I_LOVE_LESS [#24]individuals doing bad things while representing a company then being fired for it is a lot different than a government that has legal slavery trying to cover up their wrongdoings and forge a new positive image
I get the distinction you're making. My question is why government vs. corporation is the morally relevant line.
If a company knowingly tolerated systemic abuse and then used a massive esports event to repair its image, would that be okay because it's a company and not a government?
I'm genuinely trying to understand where the line is.
EthanAndBailey [#26]I get the distinction you're making. My question is why government vs. corporation is the morally relevant line.
If a company knowingly tolerated systemic abuse and then used a massive esports event to repair its image, would that be okay because it's a company and not a government?
I'm genuinely trying to understand where the line is.
no it wouldn't be okay
State sponsored event is weird
Especially when you know what they're covering up
but I probably wouldn't watch it anyway as it's stuck right between masters and stage 2
I'm usually pretty bored of watching valorant around then
then after a break I'm excited again to watch stage 2
EthanAndBailey [#18]What makes it morally dubious to you? Is it Saudi Arabia specifically, the fact that it's state-sponsored, the idea of sportswashing, or something else?
Sport-washing, state-sponsored not really sustainable, human rights abuses
I_LOVE_LESS [#27]no it wouldn't be okay
I think I understand your distinction better now. It sounds like your argument is less "companies with wrongdoing vs. governments with wrongdoing" and more that the severity and nature of the wrongdoing matter, especially when the entity itself (the government) is responsible rather than individual actors within an organization.
My question then is where you draw the line. At what point does an organization's wrongdoing become severe enough that supporting their events becomes morally unacceptable? And is the government/corporation distinction the main factor, or is it primarily the severity of the actions?
Bigfish [#25]Yeah i think goverments should not be involved in any sports whether it is esports or actual sports
That's an interesting distinction. So your objection is less about Saudi specifically and more about governments having influence over competitive sports/esports in general?
Is the issue that you think governments shouldn't be involved because it creates unfair advantages, turns competitions into political tools, or because you think sports should be completely independent from governments?
themaniel [#28]State sponsored event is weird
Especially when you know what they're covering up
but I probably wouldn't watch it anyway as it's stuck right between masters and stage 2
I'm usually pretty bored of watching valorant around then
then after a break I'm excited again to watch stage 2
That's fair. Sounds like the timing/competitive fatigue is probably the biggest reason you wouldn't watch, with the Saudi sponsorship being an additional turnoff?
For the state sponsorship part, is your issue more that it's Saudi Arabia specifically because of their record, or that you generally think governments using esports/sports for reputation building is problematic?
dimmed [#30]Sport-washing, state-sponsored not really sustainable, human rights abuses
I understand the sportswashing argument. I'm curious though, what specifically makes watching the event contribute to the sportswashing? Is it that the event gives Saudi Arabia positive publicity, that viewers are indirectly legitimizing the government, or that you think individuals have a responsibility not to participate in events tied to human rights abuses?
I didnt watch ewc
Cause prx eliminated
And busy fighting my pessi and penaldo friends
Well I just don't watch it because I'm not going to wake up at 4-5 am to watch a mickey mouse tournament that doesn't actually mean anything. Though I did wake up to watch DRG play today.
For those choosing not to watch EWC, what ethical principle are you using?
I just prefer watch APAC LCQ that give a place in T1 and this sounds more important than EWC, and can lead to champ
EthanAndBailey [#33]That's fair. Sounds like the timing/competitive fatigue is probably the biggest reason you wouldn't watch, with the Saudi sponsorship being an additional turnoff?
For the state sponsorship part, is your issue more that it's Saudi Arabia specifically because of their record, or that you generally think governments using esports/sports for reputation building is problematic?
i think any kind of image washing for countries is damaging, as ive seen how effective it can be, but it just affects me more with EWC and sportswashing because i am involved a lot more in the sports/esports scene
themaniel [#39]i think any kind of image washing for countries is damaging, as ive seen how effective it can be, but it just affects me more with EWC and sportswashing because i am involved a lot more in the sports/esports scene
That's interesting. Why does being more involved in esports change your moral responsibility? If image washing is equally harmful regardless of the medium, shouldn't the same principle apply even outside of esports?
Mqrio [#2]the best team itw aren't competing
Mqrio when a masters winner doesnt keep form and goes back to not being a top team for the 37th time in a row: 😲😲😲😲😲
I don't really like sportswashing.
Car washes are awesome because you get to wash your car by yourself
Did you wash your elbows yet?
Sports athletes wash their feet a lot, especially basketball players.
yo stop with the chatgpt answers ethan, why all of a sudden in this thread you start your responses with an affirmation, use phrases like 'Genuine question' and 'Sounds like the timing/competitive fatigue is probably the biggest reason you wouldn't watch'
I think that's fair. Genuine question, were you paid to do some market research? Is this thread a survey?
I think the human rights abuse is terrible, and I love watching EWC because it's high-level Valorant with all the best teams.
shrike- [#15]yes, my argument is that EWC has little to no prestige; if it becomes an actual champions event where a team can vie for it from the beginning of the year, then sure
the only thing EWC has going for it is the massive amount of money
So yeah it basically js glorified mid season friendly event which fcks every team's prep for stage 2
THE_killing_mac17117 [#44]So yeah it basically js glorified mid season friendly event which fcks every team's prep for stage 2
true i worried if ns win today they have to play on 12th and there stage 2 match on 17th will not get proper time to practise 😭
not boycotting but somehow i don't feel as much invested in watching, like i watch for a few min and got bored
my fav team and player isn't playing
meta is boring, all double duelist/controller, but sunset might prove me wrong since i saw some deadlock, kayo, breach play
EthanAndBailey [#31]I think I understand your distinction better now. It sounds like your argument is less "companies with wrongdoing vs. governments with wrongdoing" and more that the severity and nature of the wrongdoing matter, especially when the entity itself (the government) is responsible rather than individual actors within an organization.
My question then is where you draw the line. At what point does an organization's wrongdoing become severe enough that supporting their events becomes morally unacceptable? And is the government/corporation distinction the main factor, or is it primarily the severity of the actions?
Holy AI. LIKE WHAT
CaxTonYT [#48]Holy AI. LIKE WHAT
thats what im saying brooo. idk if hes running a bot or if hes choosing what to answer himself
At the end of the day it's all very specific and individualistic cause if you go by the logic that the ewc is sponsored by a state with bad morals and human right violations then you would need to start boycotting a fuck ton of things like mcd, starbucks for they support idf, quite some fashion brands as a lot of them use sweatshop labour, chocolates as it involves child labour in bad conditions , etc etc so it's very specific to what u wanna choose to Boycott and what u don't.
LocoMonteiro [#41]Mqrio when a masters winner doesnt keep form and goes back to not being a top team for the 37th time in a row: 😲😲😲😲😲
the qualifiers were before masters so ur point makes no sense what so ever
KClaw [#50]At the end of the day it's all very specific and individualistic cause if you go by the logic that the ewc is sponsored by a state with bad morals and human right violations then you would need to start boycotting a fuck ton of things like mcd, starbucks for they support idf, quite some fashion brands as a lot of them use sweatshop labour, chocolates as it involves child labour in bad conditions , etc etc so it's very specific to what u wanna choose to Boycott and what u don't.
As for me I ain't watchimg mostly cause it just doesn't seem fun enough ngl like last time group stage start was BO1 which somehow bought not just a good intensity to each and every matchup but we also got to see like a large variety of teams playing that we usually don't which made it more fun. I just didn't feel the fun this time.
CaxTonYT [#48]Holy AI. LIKE WHAT
his trying to debate and u call him ai lowk thats stupid
Not watching ewc cuz prx alr eliminated and never really cared that much anyways. Not even boycotting but world cup is around same time so
incidmoir [#55]his trying to debate and u call him ai lowk thats stupid
nah but he just sounds SO MUCH like AI.
EthanAndBailey [#12]If EWC replaced Champions and had the exact same teams and prestige, would your opinion change? I'm trying to separate whether your issue is with the tournament itself or with Saudi sponsorship.
i don't think it could have the same prestige. it always looks cheap and tacky, and constantly has bad formats and obvious time constraints. EWC are bad tournament organizers with a lot of money to throw at prize pools
worse production than tier 3 events
blood money
sportswashing
in terms of competitiveness it just favours shit teams that have a lot of prep time (like kc qualifying)
single elimination bracket
like ten other things too
I_LOVE_LESS [#19]pretty much everything u listed
i won't support events being hosted by a country or a company that are known for human rights violations and i think it should be illegal for the government of a country to sponsor sporting events
In that way you shouldn’t watch other sporting events also like FIFA cricket World Cup and what not because there is way more corruption involved in those and the countries hosting those events do way more dirty work then whatever is the case
Ranger45 [#45]true i worried if ns win today they have to play on 12th and there stage 2 match on 17th will not get proper time to practise 😭
I wouldn't be so worried, they have a lot of champs points if they failed to get into playoffs
Tbh most of the arguments against the boycott do not make any sense what not but anyways it’s up to the people to decide what they wanna watch
Bigfish [#25]Yeah i think goverments should not be involved in any sports whether it is esports or actual sports
You would be surprised to know that most countries invest money and have governmental oversight for sports, usually a ministry of sports or athletics or something along those lines
The only plausible reason to care in this case is that you just don’t like the specific government investing the money
Devanshhhhhh [#61]In that way you shouldn’t watch other sporting events also like FIFA cricket World Cup and what not because there is way more corruption involved in those and the countries hosting those events do way more dirty work then whatever is the case
well i dont watch fifa or cricket so
and i havent given a cent of my money to the nba nfl nhl or ufc
dimmed [#30]Sport-washing, state-sponsored not really sustainable, human rights abuses
If you already have a bad perception of saudi, the sportswashing failed already. The only people affected are the neutral unaware fans. The boycott is genuinely useless.
And the government of Saudi is literally just investing money. They aren’t enslaving esports personnel to force them to work production jobs and analyst desk work. The event itself is harmless. It just so happens to be that the entity funding it has done horrible things before.
But along those lines, if you were to watch the 2026 World Cup in the United States which is in part directly funded by the American taxpayers as the host nation, it wouldn’t mean you are suddenly supportive of or complicit in American governmental decisions. I genuinely don’t see the moral issue at all.
t0t0_wolff [#67]Cause xeppaa is not playing the tournament, Mah GOAT
that long hair girl
United states of America has bombed Iran, Venezuela, Ecuador, Nigeria, Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, and Syria in the past 12 months btw . Is vct americas blood money?
CaxTonYT [#57]nah but he just sounds SO MUCH like AI.
ye i looked down the thread sounds like ai ngl mb
gold2peak [#70]United states of America has bombed Iran, Venezuela, Ecuador, Nigeria, Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, and Syria in the past 12 months btw . Is vct americas blood money?
the only direct sponsor the US goverment has on VCT is NRG, the US has no saying in what riot does or doesn't do. If you wanted a better example you could just picked VCT CN which is owned by Tencent who have deals with the current chinese goverment
hoboclap [#51]the qualifiers were before masters so ur point makes no sense what so ever
actually it proves my point to perfection, Valorant is so streaky and momentum based that in a matter of days LEV went from getting 0 map wins against NRG/MIBR to winning a masters, thinking their form would carry over to EWC is just delusional
EthanAndBailey [#40]That's interesting. Why does being more involved in esports change your moral responsibility? If image washing is equally harmful regardless of the medium, shouldn't the same principle apply even outside of esports?
I don't think I worded that correctly
I think they're just as bad as eachother but I'm more likely to discuss sports washing as I spend a lot of my time in sports related spaces
now that I think of it, when I'm in political spaces, I rarely see anybody discussing image washing outside of sports
I should probably get on that
LocoMonteiro [#73]actually it proves my point to perfection, Valorant is so streaky and momentum based that in a matter of days LEV went from getting 0 map wins against NRG/MIBR to winning a masters, thinking their form would carry over to EWC is just delusional
EWC haters can't use logic lmao. They completely ignore how NS fell off after Santiago, T1 fell off after Bangkok, SEN fell off after Madrid.
You can't expect them to use logic and not act like they're morally superior.
inuis [#60]worse production than tier 3 events
blood money
sportswashing
in terms of competitiveness it just favours shit teams that have a lot of prep time (like kc qualifying)
single elimination bracket
like ten other things too
i agree with everything except single elims. Although single elims bo5 would have been better
sentinelmain377 [#75]EWC haters can't use logic lmao. They completely ignore how NS fell off after Santiago, T1 fell off after Bangkok, SEN fell off after Madrid.
You can't expect them to use logic and not act like they're morally superior.
2 out of 3 of these fall offs were bcs of a meta change
sentinelmain377 [#75]EWC haters can't use logic lmao. They completely ignore how NS fell off after Santiago, T1 fell off after Bangkok, SEN fell off after Madrid.
You can't expect them to use logic and not act like they're morally superior.
Well Yeah because they determine the best team at that moment and some other team dethrones them
9wntr [#14]I attended etc 2025 irl
val crowd was boring
quite frankly it lacks hypeI think it has its place tho
but firmly as less than a masters
its clearly a serious tournament for the players involved because orgs and players alike are cool with getting hella money. I agree it's worse than a masters, it's just a money grab for orgs, and the production leading up to playoffs is ass. That plus sportswashing is the reason i don't care for it, though i will watch a watchparty or vods of watchparties after. I won't ever give direct interaction with the EWC, I just wanna see what teams are doing.
my team doesnt win = blood money
my team wins = this should be as respected as champions
LocoMonteiro [#73]actually it proves my point to perfection, Valorant is so streaky and momentum based that in a matter of days LEV went from getting 0 map wins against NRG/MIBR to winning a masters, thinking their form would carry over to EWC is just delusional
You do realize that they could have just hid their strats? why would they prioritize EWC qualification over a possible masters win?
I_LOVE_LESS [#3]morals and Less isn't there so its mickey mouse club house
I like this reason
sentinelmain377 [#75]EWC haters can't use logic lmao. They completely ignore how NS fell off after Santiago, T1 fell off after Bangkok, SEN fell off after Madrid.
You can't expect them to use logic and not act like they're morally superior.
T1 were never the best team itw even during bangkok LOL
they won against G2 because G2 choked.
NS fell off due to francis becoming homeless after yoru got gutted, but recently found form again.
EWC is a fun event, but its still nothing compared to the actual VCT circuit. LEV obviously focused on masters prep more than the qualifiers.
i just really enjoy watching my team play i dont really care what goes on behind the scenes
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