https://twitter.com/neLendirekt/status/1458025179804753920?s=20
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G2 Changes
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Worked for Guild tbf xD
Nah but DavidP's latest tweet makes me think it's not him, rather some of his teammates :/
https://twitter.com/Davidp_/status/1458040585906970626
So Fit1nho is the obvious player that they're going to trial but since it says Giants players idk who the other one would be. I would say Ambi cause he plays sova but idk who the IGL for Giants is and G2 would need an IGL. Good move dropping keloqz and koldamenta and going for fit1nho imo. DavidP and meddo don't make sense role wise so the other player has to be either hoody or Ambi. They both play sova but idk if one of them is the IGL or if DavidP is the IGL because I don't think meddo is the IGL and fit1nho plays jett so I doubt he's the IGL either. Either way they would be diminishing a top 5 EMEA team while getting much better themselves and removing the internal issues. So overall, it's a good move for G2.
LAN keloqz was so good, sadly he wasn't able to perform as well online. Fitinho is good player though. Dunno about the 2nd one, because role wise maybe Ambi, but Koldamenta was IGL(?) and Ambi wasn't so I'm not sure about that. Good that they keep Avova and nukkye though, you don't want to lose those.
Both are god pickups for other teams, I wouldn’t be surprised if they change Fiti for Keloqz and just like they changes the Heretics or Acend player.
Even though I love Fiti I really hope G2 doesn’t take anyone from Giants, it would be sad if they break the team like that, plus they don’t need a second duelist, it just doesn’t work. I think the perfect move would be plus Davidp plus chiwawa
Kolda to Guild?
Depends. Yoinking players/staff from a competing roster, which leads in the collapse of that roster, I would, especially a roster with as much effort and as Giants. It seems like a repeating pattern for this organization.
They stand on the graves of previously promising rosters. Heretics, Megastitut and now potentially Giants and we're only a year into the scene. Honestly they stand on the graves of players they've taken in and dumped as well without allowing them to grow first, Zeek being the exception. Giants would be the last straw, Davidp has already voiced his concerns, so we'll see what happens.
I value the entire scene more than a single team, but anything can be justified by that team becoming the best in the scene, if they fail, they fail the entire scene.
Example of a good move: ABX -yay for NV +yay, bolstered the NA scene internationally & ABX was a failing team already so it made sense.
Why are you jumping to assumptions.
Nobody is forcing anyone to join G2. Blaming a company because they're looking out for their best interests? How could they smh...
G2 Valorant 2020, Europe (and arguably World's) best team was made up with teamless players except for Ardiis. Their first org was G2.
-
TH was imploding, there was an internal crysis, Nukkye and Avova both stated they wanted to leave before G2 showed any interest in them.
-
Megastitut??? Promising??? THEY'RE NOT EVEN AN ORG. How tf is that promising?!?!?!?!
They picked up an unproven Tier 3 talent out of nowhere, how does that add up to your point?
Would you also be mad at someone signing a "LOOKING4ORG" player when that's what they literally strive for?
and now potentially Giants and we're only a year into the scene
Well completely ignoring the baseless assumption, you're shooting at your own foot with that last quote.
Use your brain.
When G2 built up their first iteration almost every player was orgless because there weren't orgs in the scene
How do you expect them to sign teamless players when almost every (good) player is signed? Do people here not know about traditional sports?
Also having played for a team before denotes experience, it's a requirement and there's a lot more to it than what we know.
Ironic you're over imposing your own personal interests over theirs as if they held any value. Your text lacks any substance whatsoever, exposing a narrow-minded vision and cherry-picking scenarios ignoring the most obvious reasoning.
Pd: "without allowing them to grow first" what does this even mean?
Can we start using proper, objective terms, because this seems quite ambiguous.
What's the real world application there?
"Hey Nukkye we know you don't wanna play with Keloqz but I'm afraid we'll have to let him grow first"
You can't even possibly know what leads to the "collapse of a roster" and it'd be arrogant of you to think so.
"hey X, you're underperforming, your teammates want you out, you lack working ethics, you've made some dubious statements and 1000s of reasons more the audience will never get to know BUT you can keep stealing our paychecks and ruining the team for 6 months or more although you've probably failed to meet every requirement you agreed upon. We will allow you to grow first! (whatever that means)"
Growing for VCT 2026?
Ironic you're over imposing your own personal interests over theirs as if they held any value. Your text lacks any substance whatsoever, exposing a narrow-minded vision and cherry-picking scenarios ignoring the most obvious reasoning.
Really? It's as if it's my own opinion and how I see things. Crazy how people can have opinions on the internet.
Claims you made, that are addressable:
1) Nobody is forcing anyone to join G2.
Correct, but point me to where I said that anyone was being forced. What I'm concerned with isn't that they're "forcing people into G2", it's that they're primarily picking up players from other teams, that are already established, which may or may not lead to that established team becoming worse and at the worst dissolving. There is no creativity in this rosterbuilding process and in my view leads to a net loss for the scene overall. And they keep doing it, because they're wealthier than any EU team, orgless or not. It's like they're the center of the scene roster-moves wise because of how much they can put in.
2) G2 Valorant 2020, Europe (and arguably World's) best team was made up with teamless players except for Ardiis. Their first org was G2.
I'm not saying G2 hasn't done good things for the scene, this era of G2 you're talking about is when I respected the org the most, the scene was still in early times back then and they had creativity and didn't only pick and choose players from established teams, they held their own tournament for upcoming talent and picked some of the best there too, that's respectable. But as the scene moved forward the approach for G2 shifted, once they don't have the results they want, the approach they take is not to fix, but rebuild with talent in established teams. All you need to do is compare and contrast their approach and the degree to which they exert it with other organizations in the scene, the differences become immediately clear.
3) TH was imploding, there was an internal crysis, Nukkye and Avova both stated they wanted to leave before G2 showed any interest in them.
The owner of Heretics said it was the most extreme poaching he's seen, that's what I'm basing it on. I didn't imply G2 was the cause of Heretics' problems. They took advantage of the opportunity and gave Nukkye and Avova an exit when the team was in shambles, leaving the rest of Heretics twiddling their thumbs. Now my prescription related to this is, that the way and frequency at which they create incentives for players in established teams is the problem, not players taking those incentives.
4) You're making assumptions about Giants.
No, I never made any assumption about Giants. I proposed a condition. If that condition were to be met, I will lose the respect I have left for the organization.
5) Megastitut??? Promising??? THEY'RE NOT EVEN AN ORG. How tf is that promising?!?!?!?!
Megastitut was a very promising team until Keloqz got picked, in fact they were looking for an org during that time period; what most likely changed course was them getting significantly worse after the departure of Keloqz. And now he's being dropped from G2.
6) They picked up an unproven Tier 3 talent out of nowhere, how does that add up to your point?
Keloqz was not a nobody. I had him on my list for one of the biggest EU unsigned talents back then. He was an extremely talented kid and it was extremely obvious to anyone who was looking at the scene back then. I don't blame Keloqz for taking the opportunity, because Megastitut had no financial backing, that's understandable. I think G2 picking him up was good for him. Again most of the moves from the perspective of players make sense, that's not my gripe.
7) Can you explain what you mean by "Allowing them to grow".
Simply put, I think G2 is too hasty in their roster-building process. Let's compare and contrast with other EMEA teams in champions for example:
Liquid sign Fish123, boarded Jamppi, boarded Nivera. Took risks without destruction or impact to the rest of the teams in the scene and kept their core throughout.
Fnatic sign SUMN FC, integrated Derke from CrowCrowd roster which at the time lost 0-2 to ForZe in CIS Masters 1, which was a big risk that paid off thanks to their good scouting.
Acend(RYE) sign Don't Even Ask, a roster, that came in 5th-8th in a recent LVP, they stuck with the roster apart from the the trade which was initiated by G2.
Gambit sign FishkaVTom and have stuck with them to this day, regardles of all the ups and downs they've had.
All of them built their rosters out with their own ups and downs, but they made it into the biggest event of VCT. This is in my opinion more respectable, than what it took for G2 to get an entry into Masters 3.
8) How do you expect them to sign teamless players when almost every (good) player is signed?
I expect them to invest in their own talent and grow it, rather than throw it all away once they start running into issues. This has been my gripe with G2 and rosters like G2. There are waves of creation and waves of destruction. There seems to be no baseline reached where this organization can say "yes we're going to stick with this core, build the roster out and grind to become the best". Rather it seems, that the organization thinks they can buy their way into becoming the best and the way they accomplish this is by picking and choosing from established teams, which lacks creativity and almost seems corporate incentive structures-wise. This is why I don't respect them in this scene and it is entirely my opinion, which I am entitled to.
If you have a different opinion or value different approaches a team takes, that's fine. But from my perspective and seeing the way G2 approaches rosterbuilding, I don't respect it. That's all.
The problem now wasn’t the org, someone in the roster created beef, if it wasn’t for that I think they would stay together, they went from 0 points to almost making it to champions in a short time, so they throw it because of the internal issues.
But you need to understand that when a team wants changes they need to sign players from other teams, that’s just how sports and esports work. G2 is an org that needs results now, they won’t wait couple of years or months for a player to grow. If they do that, it can cost them not making it to important tournaments in 2022 too.
I’ll feel sad too for giants because I like the team and a streamer I see is from giants and I watch their matches, so if g2 takes players from them I hope they manage to buy some good players too with the money g2 is paying
- You talk about opinions yet stated 2 objectively false claims attending to different logical fallacies in your 1st paragraph.
- Non-sequiturs, [a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement.]
You're making up false case scenarios.
2 . Assuming players move to G2 for the money - "because they're wealthier than any EU team" is this another one of your so-called opinions? Because that's categorically false. Another wrong assumption.
So far I know players have chosen G2 over higher paid salaries in other teams.
There is no creativity in this rosterbuilding process
No real-world application terms again.
"This is mumbo jambo"
Alright. What's does that even mean? Doesn't your "creativity" differ to mine? What is there to be creative about?
it's like...
Another one. Another pointless subjective perception.
- Talking of "established teams" as if I didn't already address that one before.
- There's no objective definition of "established team", you didn't even bother to explain what are the requirements to consider a team "established" according to your flawed, personal perspective.
- Let's see if you understand it this way, to put you in context:
League of Legends (Europe) has a main league (LEC). Each of the teams competing in LEC, have their own academy team in European regional leagues (ERLs), within those ERLs, there's even more sub-divisions filled with more teams!
You see all these layers. It's a universe full of teams so it's nearly impossible for a decent player not to have a team.
Now tell me, if an org needs to make a change for whatever reasons, consult its players to see who's the more fitting piece, investigate who's the best option among all possible ones and finally find that change... It means that player is worth it, ergo means that player made a name for himself in the professional scene, thus that player probably plays for a team.
I can't believe I'm seriously explaining this.
Or do you expect G2 OR ANY other org for that matter to go and sign their 35 year old casual League of Legends player next door because he doesn't have a team?
- You speak of a scene (almost an ecosystem, kinda) you don't want to be ruined without even having detailed what it consists of or why it'd be damaged, unable to back up your points in 1st place.
Last time I checked G2 holds the record for the most watched Valorant game ever.
once they don't have the results they want, the approach they take is not to fix, but rebuild with talent in established teams.
"once G2 don't have the results they want, the approach they take is not to fix it, but instead... To fix it" 👏👏
"hey X, you're one-armed so you're making things difficult for the team. Instead of looking for a better replacement with our excellent scouting team, evaluating various options to improve the team because we aspire to win, I think it'd be more appropriate to fix your disability and grow you one arm "
Ozzy, Zeek, Mixwell, Patitek, Pyth, DavidP, Keloqz, (Nukkye and Avova left) yeah... ""Established teams"" x))))))
- Woah, a player has been proven to be worthy of a team and someone picked him up? Crazy.
So according to you G2 should never go for a player catering their needs because he probably has a team already although that team could be "123" unranked? So G2 should never look out for the best option for their team?
Real Madrid should never sign Mbappe so they don't ruin PSG and make Europe a more friendly-like competition as a whole with everyone holding hands?
All you need to do is compare and contrast their approach and the degree to which they exert it with other organizations in the scene, the differences become immediately clear.
"All you need to do is compare G2, an org making the necessary changes to win it all since that's their objective 1st and foremost, to all these other orgs with completely different goals, philosophies and approaches"
- Alright let's see:
How's that eSuba (#66) doesn't do the same G2 does?
That must mean they're better :O
It's not like:
- the org does not operate outside its geographical limitations and where theirQ is settled (Czech Republic)
- There are not enough players in the Czech Republic so the options are scarce and there are not so many replacements, the same with CIS.
Just naming 2 reasons out of the thousands that there may be.
You just decided (again) to assume and cherry-pick one conveniently.
Yeah, I compare I see their approach and I realize how much they suck.
Let's apply some of your amazing logic to top 10 European teams (don't get me started on how other regions work, seems like we already forgot about Korea, Sentinels buying out Tenz for 1 million, the SEA monopoly and so on...)
- Gambit:
-nAts & Chronicle (FishkaVtom)
-Dumped Sunset instead of growing him and decided to sign Redgar from another established team (flawless)
Massive fail. Absolutely disgusting. Now they're top 1 European team.
Fishka was the best CIS team at the time btw. Can't say the same about Megastitut, neither TH, and that's about it :)
- Team Liquid:
-destroyed one of the best European teams at the start of Valorant (Fish123, how could they) by signing the entire lineup.
-bench ec1s, sign jamppi, dump kryptix (alleging "personal break") and now they signed nivera.
What? I don't care about kryptix's personal break and TL making it to Champions with Nivera... Idc if he was a massive flop, why didn't they give him more time?
- You, probably
Moving on.
The owner of Heretics said it was the most extreme poaching he's seen
Reddit thread and Arnau Vidal rant. Aight, I'll completely ignore this. You already showed how little you know if you take any of what that hypocrite prick says in a serious way.
Why is niesow benched again? Where are the communicates?
I'll rather base myself on Nukkye, Avova and Lowel's words.
They've had issues since the end of First Strike, eventually they would've had changes
_
Riot enforces anti-poaching in League because they have it fully regulated, but in Valorant they don't because Riot aren't aware of all the contracts going on.
(It's not even illegal lmfao, wonder why)
_
The Universo Valorant crew mention that it's not Ocelote (G2 owner) that is doing the poaching
They feel like it was a bit opportunist on pAura's behalf, but they don't mind since they were already looking to replace him.
Woah so nice of them. Even trashing pAura
Still waiting to see how does that thread address what I said.
He's straight up confirming TH was in shambles before G2 contacted them. Also how are you are so naive to think that the same team concealing public statements wouldn't try to blame their losses on external factors after bringing in a large mass of fans.
So your whole point is... Arnau's verbatim words on a chill UV podcast?
And why should I take that into account?
Why should I think this reflects even a small % of what actually happens behind the curtains?
Why did you even bother sharing that?
No, I never made any assumption about Giants. I proposed a condition. If that condition were to be met, I will lose the respect I have left for the organization.
I will forever hate you if you kill an innocent child
But I'll take that back if you gift me a lambo
Megastitut was a very promising team until Keloqz got picked
proceeds to link a VLR match from a tier3 tourney against fucking excel
Megastitut in the match you link, with Keloqz:
https://www.vlr.gg/19121/megastitut-vs-excel-valorant-open-tour-france-spring-qualifier-gf
1666 pts.
Megastitut without Keloqz:
1716 pts.
The highest peak they've ever reached
https://www.vlr.gg/28141/megastitut-vs-dark-tigers-champions-tour-europe-stage-3-challengers-2-ro64
what most likely changed course was them getting significantly worse after
L.M.A.O
What makes you think any org would be interested in buying out a full 5stack? Oh, is that your standards of "building up rosters with creativity?"
It's so creative and original it's actually the most common formula and the one that calls for at least 1 change in the shortest period of time actually (fnc, TL, Gambit, Acend, Guild with Bonk...)
Also if they were picked up Megastitut would no longer exist, how does that make it promising?
Megastitut/L'institut/Average Joe's have been around since Valorant came out.
They've been orgless ever since. I mean, they've had plenty of time to make a name for themselves right? Maybe whoever is running that orgless team should allow them to grow and fix the team?
https://www.vlr.gg/190/2g4l-vs-inst-cooler-cup-playoffs-qf
Why do you keep showing your blatant ignorance.
Aren't you ashamed of blatantly lying and embarrassing yourself?
Also don't you see your own contradictions?
You say Megastitut got worse after Keloqz finally found an org, meaning he was their best player, yet you were expecting the WHOLE team to be picked up by an org. Why would they?
Keloqz was not a nobody. I had him on my list for one of the biggest EU unsigned talents back then.
Congratulations, nobody cares.
0 + 0 = 0
You're another nobody. I can claim (random Vietnamese player) is underrated so when (tier 5 Vietnamese org picks him up) I could... claim that I knew he'd be signed eventually (?)
You also mentioned Cloud, mushashi and elllement lmfao.
You also said Megastitut was worse without Keloqz.
Why are you taking pride in that. I mean, I love Keloqz but he's nowhere close to being one of the top dogs. His inconsistency is so clear.
"it was extremely obvious to anyone who was looking at the scene back then"
It was so obvious that Nukkye doesn't want to play with him after basically stating he's a dumb Jett with no impact
Man, you keep clowning.
All of them built their rosters out with their own ups and downs, but they made it into the biggest event of VCT. This is in my opinion more respectable, than what it took for G2 to get an entry into Masters 3.
You portrayed that in such a biased way I can't believe you're being serious right now.
You know your whole point falls apart after knowing that, if it wasn't for Gambit's victory, fnc wouldn't have qualified, right? You know TL had to fight for that spot in LCQ just like G2 right?
I'd say G2 almost making it to Champions after beating current "World Champions", being Semifinalists in the most competitive tournament of the year yet coming from a massive revamp and 1 month of practice, is actually more impressive than sticking with your roster for months, losing to every team out there and qualifying thanks to RIOT fucking up system points lmao.
Took risks without destruction or impact to the rest of the teams in the scene and kept their core throughout.
Yes, signing 2 young Tier 1 CS:GO pros after building up their entire roster upon ex-CSGO pros. Such a big risk.
The risk of signing Nivera so he can play with his brother. Man, these guys are truly revolutionary.
TL should let every team win against them because that's not destructive for [opposite team in question]
FNC:
Enters Valorant in 2021 (most of the teams and good players are already picked up) signs an entire orgless lineup (goes in line with org's working model, can't build up a decent roster for themselves)
Yet you talk about forming rosters, when G2 seems to be the only one to carefully assemble teams going piece by piece while also being the only team to succeed at it lmao
Dumped moe and tsack in a span of 2 months.
Sign Magnum (HOMELESS, which was doing fairly good at the time) and Derke (CC, even better)
roster which at the time lost 0-2 to ForZe in CIS Masters 1
Such a clown.
CC wins against ForZe
https://www.vlr.gg/10429/forze-vs-crow-rowd-champions-tour-cis-stage-1-challengers-1-qualifier-ro64
CC wins against ForZe (again)
https://www.vlr.gg/11744/crow-rowd-vs-forze-champions-tour-cis-stage-1-challengers-2-main-event-fr
Also took down Gambit 2-0
https://www.vlr.gg/14937/gambit-esports-vs-crow-rowd-champions-tour-cis-stage-2-challengers-1-qf
But yeah, Fnatic took the risk of signing the best player in a team that was making noise. Insane.
Why are team results relevant to individual skill again?
Acend(RYE) sign Don't Even Ask, a roster, that came in 5th-8th in a recent LVP, they stuck with the roster apart from the the trade which was initiated by G2.
The way you portray things is honestly disgusting. Cut the fake bs.
Completely overlooking that RYE was the top underdog (Kiles and starxo had big communities behind their back and cNed was a big name already) https://www.vlr.gg/event/328/champions-tour-europe-stage-1-challengers-3
"Org registered in 2021 with budget cap, is being credited for sticking with the same roster after signing an entire lineup with no hesitation, although they're probably limited in their decisions"
Roster happened to click and they have this factor called cNed.
Gambit sign FishkaVTom and have stuck with them to this day,
- False, but anyways it only further proves my point.
So, to sum it up: fnc, TL, ACE & apparently Gambit all signed ENTIRE lineups. All of them signed the BEST teams in their respective time periods...
As opposed to G2, which decided to apply their formula, examine each player meticulously to see who fits better and integrate them into the team.
That's how they dominated 2020.
That's how they were still on top in early 2021 with Zeek.
And that's how they placed 3-4th with 4 completely different players in Berlin.
Hmm...
Seems like we have different definitions on what is good scouting, taking risks and "creativity"
It's also funny how G2 kept an eye on nAts and cNed when no one else did and they were 2 nonames but yeah, keep clowning.
BTW
It's like they're the center of the scene roster-moves wise
I wonder why :O, prestige maybe? Conditions? Ambitions, goals? Philosophy? Developing environment? Resources? Etc etc etc etc...
Your closest "it's like" yet. Smelled like frustration kinda but you got a point
"I expect them to invest in their own talent and grow it"
That's exactly what they do but I don't think nobody should care about your expectations really.
When will you understand that they aspire to is to win and that there are different means for it? There's no default route, there are different solutions according to different situations. They've experimented with every formula across their many different esports and they succeeded with each. What's the big deal? I seriously fail to understand your point. You talk a lot but end up saying nothing
- Gotta love how unaware you are of your own hypocrisy.
Out of top 10 European teams by rankings only two (2) have actually built up and formed their rosters in a great way, these are VGIA & G2
The other halfwits (except, maybe, SMB) couldn't do anything but signing entire teams like incompetent/inexperienced and scared orgs lmfao.
So you praise Giants' team in countless times while trashing G2's (as if they try to purposefully ruin VGIA or something instead of simply looking out for the best options) way of doing things failing to realize it's the same fucking thing?
You literally said:
what Giants have built.
They've built their rosters in the same way. So what's your issue now? Hypocrisy much?
rather than throw it all away once they start running into issues.
When did they do this again?
"yes we're going to stick with this core, build the roster out and grind to become the best".
Easier said than done. Pretty sure that was the initial idea until half of the team doesn't want to play with one member and results don't show up.
Pretty sure they know better and your oversimplified and reductionist view is nothing more than that.
Rather it seems
Stopped reading. Completely pointless after having exposed your flawd pov. Water ain't wet to you.
You do you
E:
it is entirely my opinion, which I am entitled to
Yes, that's true. Fair enough. Have a good one
Expected reply when you can't say anything back nor prove anything I called you out for lmfao. Sit down and don't embarrass yourself more, ignorant liar
Couldn't even elaborate on your whole "m-muh scene" point. It's a business not a charity bozo, plus most of what I said doesn't even relate to G2.
Cope.
G2 should have dropped mixwell and koldamenta and leave keloqz. mixwell was the most inconsistant player of g2! also he sucks in big games. what a shame once again the guys who deserve the most stay untouched... its obv because mixwell has a lot of fans! cant wait to see G2 fail again and again! hope also all the sposnsors quit this trash org!
Prolly Mix will return to Jett role, so G2 Fiti seems unlikely.
I'd rather see G2 Hoody as a more viable option, he is absurdly underrated, droping insane numbers while flexing. Mix would fit into keloqz role and Hoody would take Mix flex role.
They for sure need a good IGL, which are always lacking. Who also plays Sova I guess? I think of Akukhos, but dunno if he fits G2 standarts. Foxie is Sova IGL, too. No idea actually who could be the potential replacement.
If there's any truth to this, I understand Giants players moving for money.
BUT - It's pretty stupid if they want to win anything. They're already a solid 4th team in EMEA right now, which puts them in with a solid qualification shot for international LANs next year. throwing that away would be very odd.
We will have to wait and see.
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