Propose Solutions

#1

Mortadelo

Alright this is awful for the players and I wanna see them franchised too. We are all blaming Riot, but I am yet to hear a better alternative than what they have done.

The Guard fired all their staff and does not have money at all, letting them in is a risk too big, players could not be paid or have scandals like that. People say then they shouldn't have let the guard in in the first place but there was literally an open qualifier, plus The Guard had their financial struggle mid year so what were they supposed to do kick them mid season?

Alright so we are put in this situation, now what do we do, we have 3 options imo.

We let M80 in, which ig is an option but how does that beenfit the Guard players? And most importantly, why is it more fair than announcing 2 teams will ascend next year to compensate and all teams can plan accordingly. M80 didn't ascend, is not fair.
We give the Guard players another org, but how? We let the players choose? Then it becomes a massive auction to see who pays more, which can lead to massive issues again, inflated salaries, or orgs pulling out and just waiting for opportunities like this one. The other option is riot chooses the org, in which case how is that fair with M80 and the rest of the orgs competing in VCL?
We could also let the players compete FA and Riot pay them, but that wouldn't really make sense because at some point you still have to go through scenario number 2 at some point.

Those are the options I have been reading the most and none make sense to me. Before criticizing Riot let's think first, what is a viable solution that makes the most sense. Please be reasonable

#2

oofington

37

Frags

+

–

Riot goes down a list of orgs that were close to making franchising and asks them one by one if they would be willing to sign TGRD players.

#3

Thriceistoocold

0

Frags

+

–

Yes

#6

Mortadelo

-1

Frags

+

–

That is scenario #2. So for example we ask OPTC and they say yes, how is that fair with all orgs that have been trying to ascend this year

#8

Thriceistoocold

4

Frags

+

–

Well are you dumb optic is poor and would deny

#10

Mortadelo

-1

Frags

+

–

Alright then, TSM or G2? Handpicking one of the 2 is still very shitty for the other one and for everyone else who does meet the criteria

#44

thinkaboutvic

1

Frags

+

–

G2 was supposed to make franchising before the whole Andrew Tate situation and considering that they've now fired the CEO that created that whole thing, they're the best choice IMO

#49

Thriceistoocold

0

Frags

+

–

Tsm would have made franchsing but they have a sexist ceo

#72

CryoZanderDerrekEnjoyer

0

Frags

+

–

thank god they didnt

#50

xSaneZ

2

Frags

+

–

Well what if a team without an org won ascension then? Riot really didn't think this through

#51

Mortadelo

-1

Frags

+

–

Explained it a couple times. It's different. Maximum as soon as they qualify for ascension they would get picked up, before winning

#56

xSaneZ

1

Frags

+

–

Yeah but there's no requirement for that? That's not a written rule, and it usually takes a very long time to buy out a team. This is very unrealistic, but this being an option already gives orgs the incentive to not build their own team and just wait then? So riot going with option #2 really doesn't change that aspect? Bonkers were 2 series away and they weren't picked up by an org

#11

oofington

0

Frags

+

–

It’s fair because they would go down the organizations close to making franchising one by one, regardless of if they have a current roster or not. Regardless, most of the orgs that Riot has on their shortlist either have dropped most/all of their players or are not in the VCL.

#14

Mortadelo

-1

Frags

+

–

But again, there are many orgs that do meet the criteria unlike the guard, if you handpick one over the rest all the others could be leaving. They have tried to ascend all year and now you give that slot to a random team for no reason

#45

Sk00d

0

Frags

+

–

tbh they already handpicked 10 orgs for each region, why not handpick one more? idk what exact system they used to determine what orgs get in, but whoever in NA would be next on that list deserves the first invite I guess?

#47

Mortadelo

-2

Frags

+

–

Yes but it's not the same anymore, they are already in, you have set the rules. You have already set the rules. This is something that could happen again, if I am G2 or TSM or whoever, what is the point of investing any more money in Ascension if I can make it through without winning? I would not invest anymore

#48

Sk00d

3

Frags

+

–

I think youre overblowing the issue, realistically not many orgs would quit based on that and riot probably wouldnt worry too much about losing an org or two from val

also this is by far the fairest solution for the players, riot will face even more backlash if they end up not letting them into the league at all

#52

xSaneZ

0

Frags

+

–

Bro not many orgs will implode after winning ascension, this is quite a unique case idk why you think this is something that other orgs can wait for and capitalise on when it happens. That's completely unrealistic, and just a horrible business strategy

#53

koromast

0

Frags

+

–

why tf would it be unfair???? they didnt ascend and guard players did why would we care about which org tried ascension instead of the players who grinded their ass?? its better to get rid of the entire org and players because other millionaire orgs will have hurted feelings? OWIES THEIR POOR MILLIONAIRE HEARTS, instead of thinking about that shit think about all the sacrifices guard (the team not the org) did to win and they are out because of riot's poor decision making and caring more about fraud orgs than about the players, what if a F/A team won? they would just get rid of them and say "well who cares if they won if they dont have org bye" everytime a orgless team wins?

#54

Mortadelo

-1

Frags

+

–

It's not about hurting orgs feelings, is about them pulling out of the scene because of it. Without orgs there is no scene

#57

koromast

0

Frags

+

–

there is a lack of orgs already, they are not making it any better with this stupid rulebook

#59

Mortadelo

-1

Frags

+

–

If The Guard players don't make it to franchising, ascension loses meaning for the players
If a teams that hasn't won makes it to franchising, ascension loses meaning for orgs

Precisely because of that lack of orgs is why they can't do that

#61

koromast

0

Frags

+

–

guard lost their meaning after winning and not getting partnered tbh, if there are other orgs like that on tier 2 they will just leave after this news so thrust me making this decision doesnt make it any better for orgs

#62

Mortadelo

-1

Frags

+

–

If those orgs don't meet Riot requirements then yes, no point for them to stay. Literally there was a scandal today about xset still owing money. This is necessary

#64

koromast

0

Frags

+

–

so less orgs and less chances for ascending on a system who was supposed to strictly ascend 1 team per year

#68

overweightcat34

0

Frags

+

–

Fuck the orgs. Orgs don't win games or create tactics. The wins and trophies belong to the players. If some team like OPTC or more likely G2 has the cash and the desire to sign The Guard roster that is the best solution. "all orgs trying to ascend this year" is just a pointless line of thought. The Guard roster should be looking for new orgs to play under, RIOT should just fuck off and let them find an org.

#20

Emmy_TOF

-1

Frags

+

–

riot cannot be like that lmaoooo

#4

queueK

5

Frags

+

–

I think a replacement organization is the only possible answer here despite salary inflation and unsustainability.

RIOT could identify a list of financially stable organizations and allow the players to pick the one they want.

Allowing the players to compete as F/As would be impossible as ther would be no incentive to make roster changes (the rebates/team skins would literally be their salaries)

#5

juho

13

Frags

+

–

m80 ascending is a bad option, cuz guard players deserve it for sure. I think they should just let them sign with another shortlisted org

#7

Noodle

0

Frags

+

–

m80 signing tgrd’s roster would probably be the ideal case

#43

cocoluna

0

Frags

+

–

they do not have enough money to pay trent's half a million dollar salary much less his 5 million dollar buyout
Edit: No buy out

#9

reycac

12

Frags

+

–

1.delete franchising

#12

KssS

5

Frags

+

–

#2 is the best solution. if riot doesn't do anything they would face MASSIVE backlash and other orgs wouldn't want to invest in tier 2 anymore.

#15

Mortadelo

-4

Frags

+

–

I think if you do #2 then you would also face a massive backlash and all the orgs that are not handpicked wouldn't invest anymore either. Why would you invest if another org that has not invested all year could take the slot instead?

#17

KssS

2

Frags

+

–

riot already turned off other orgs when they didn't pick them for franchising it isn't a lot different than what would happen with option 2. And to your 2nd argument I would tweak option 2 a bit and let them pick an org that was already participating in the VCL like G2 TSM etc.

#22

Mortadelo

-1

Frags

+

–

#21

#13

tatubolinha

1

Frags

+

–

announce valorant 2 and start competitive by stretch randomizing orgs and players

#16

spicytuna

2

Frags

+

–

What if... boycotting... all 10 teams refuse to play until this situation is well-fixed.

#19

Mortadelo

-1

Frags

+

–

Yes but that's exactly what I'm asking. How do you well-fix this situation, that's the matter here

#23

jimjam789

1

Frags

+

–

wont work, lol lcs tried that and riot basically said fuck you play the game or we terminate ur season

#26

spicytuna

0

Frags

+

–

fuck. can you send me a link to that?

#29

mareanie

1

Frags

+

–

here is a decent summary article of what happened before they reached an an agreement that a lot of the community thought was kinda mid

#32

spicytuna

0

Frags

+

–

thx!

#70

vollizie

0

Frags

+

–

The LCS is a meme anyway. Americas League for Valorant is actually a competitive league unlike the LCS. It would hurt them way more. It probably wouldn't work anyway, but I think it would have a much bigger impact LCS.

#71

jimjam789

0

Frags

+

–

nope, league of legends will always be bigger than valorant and thus a bigger priority

lcs 'meme league' is actually 2nd in terms of revenue brought in behind china i believe

#18

MuZe

8

Frags

+

–

#2 is fine if riot chooses the org, isn't it just like the initial concept of franchising where riot chose the 10 orgs? Yeah, you can say it isn't fair for orgs who invested in VCL, but franchising wasn't ever "fair" to orgs in the first place.

#21

Mortadelo

0

Frags

+

–

Yes but you didn't have orgs competing for ascension the year franchised was announced. That time you set the rules. This time you're completely ignoring your rules and bypassing someone through the whole thing. If I'm Faze I'm really pissed if they do that, you lied to me in the first place. maybe is enough to pull out and maybe not, but it's a risk you can't deny that

#46

MuZe

1

Frags

+

–

It's still the best solution, letting no one in is the situation where everyone loses

#24

Mkin11

0

Frags

+

–

Cualquiera de las 3 soluciones es mejor que la que la terminaron eligiendo

#25

Mortadelo

0

Frags

+

–

Para mi cualquiera de las 3 acaba con todas las orgs de tier 2 queriéndote matar y saliendo del juego porque te saltas las normas

#27

Mkin11

0

Frags

+

–

que normas se estarian saltando? el roster de the guard ascension, tienen que jugar la liga franquiciada

#28

Mortadelo

0

Frags

+

–

Pues estarían eligiendo a mano que organización sube, lo cual es injusto para todas las demás orgs que han estado compitiendo. Imaginate que ahora entra OPTC con el roster the Guard. Que van a pensar G2, TSM y las demás orgs?

#31

Mkin11

0

Frags

+

–

Ya eligieron a mano a quienes subían antes. Lo injusto es ganar ascension y no poder subir.

#34

Mortadelo

0

Frags

+

–

Ya pero es que no es lo mismo, las normas del juego estan puestas ya, y la manera de subir es ascension. Déjame ponerlo de otra manera. Para ti si ganas y NO subes el ascension pierde el sentido, pero lo que yo digo es que para las orgs si no ganas y SI subes entonces ascension también pierde el sentido.

#40

Mkin11

0

Frags

+

–

Para las orgs también pierde el sentido, riot se guarda la potestad de aceptarlas o no. Una org puede ganar ascensión e igual no ser aceptada por riot. En este caso claramente The guard es muy cantado, pero que hay de Tsm o Faze, dos organizaciones con un presente financiero cuestionable, si estas ganan ascensión nadie les da la garantia de que realmente ascienden.

#30

titanwithpp

0

Frags

+

–

Following #2, Riot goes through the list of orgs that were close but didn't make it and the players and management of TGRD roster reaches an agreement with one of these orgs and then they're let in.

#33

Crackyoudown

0

Frags

+

–

FlyQuest, G2, TSM or Optic idk elon musk creates an esports team anything

#35

Mortadelo

0

Frags

+

–

Then FAZE and the other tier 2 orgs will say why tf am I competing if someone can make it without competing

#36

Crackyoudown

0

Frags

+

–

yeah but they would be picking up the TGRD roster so it would still be the same roster that put all the work in under a new name and realistically the only other team in NA VCL with a decent chance to compete is m80 but everything should be exhausted to allow this TGRD roster to play somehow

#37

Mortadelo

0

Frags

+

–

Yeah ofc they getting the Guard roster but doesn't change what I said. If TSM makes it in, G2 will say why tf am I competing next year if orgs are making it without even winning

#42

Crackyoudown

0

Frags

+

–

I like ur thinking mortadelo you are one of the sanest individuals here. Then again I can see a team like FlyQuest pick up theis roster because they are in LCS and they have done well over the years

#38

sj67atg6

0

Frags

+

–

not our job to come up with a solution but the solutions r obv. give slot to the players when they find an org, give slot to next in line who can afford franchising, or be smart and fucking realize franchising is a dogshit idea in esports

#39

SteveLob

4

Frags

+

–

the slot goes to the players. an org will sign them because they own a valuable franchising spot.

#41

Mortadelo

-2

Frags

+

–

I already said in my post why that is not a good option. That is literally auctioning the slot, which 1 defies the whole philosophy os this, 2 leads to extremely inflated salaries which can be an issue, 3 If I'm an org competing in franchising and Riot let's in a random org without going through ascension I'm pulling out of tier 2, no point anymore

#55

nutab1e

0

Frags

+

–

so have everyone in this thread realized that portly fellow is not looking for solutions? 😂

#58

jkjkjk

2

Frags

+

–

We could also let the players compete FA and Riot pay them, but that wouldn't really make sense

How does this not make sense? This is the solution, period.

How are you going to create a system of promotion from Premier > VCL > Ascension > VCT if you're automatically telling FA players/teams that they cannot get into VCT ? Then what's the fucking point?

Riot, through its action, is pretty much saying: "You can be the best team in the World in Valorant, but if an Org doesn't pick you up that agrees with our terms, you practically do not exist"

#60

Mortadelo

-2

Frags

+

–

First of all, if you're playing against a team who's paid by Riot are you really not gonna be paranoid about it
Second of all who makes the roster changes? what if the team fights and they don't wanna play together
Third, you can't do that forever, at some point they have to go through #2

#63

jkjkjk

0

Frags

+

–

Looks like you don't really know what you're talking about. Everything you're mentioning is a non-issue.

First of all, if you're playing against a team who's paid by Riot are you really not gonna be paranoid about it

All teams are paid by Riot in partnership (base salary players, anything on top of the minimum is provided by Orgs). Are you not aware that Riot pays each team/org currently in partnership, per season?

Second of all who makes the roster changes?

As an FA team you'd still have to abide by the same rules: aka have a coach and substitute player available (if still applicable). In this case, it would be a decision between the players and the coach (similar to how it is done in existing Orgs as well)

Third, you can't do that forever

You don't do it forever. You do it for 2 VCT seasons, since that's how Ascension works.

#65

Mortadelo

-1

Frags

+

–

No, not all teams are payed by riot. Riot does give money to the orgs but does not pay the basic salaries at all, the money has several purposes and actually idk about rn but the report a couple months ago was that those teams have not seen the money yet. But anyway I'm missing the point, that would be like if Riot owned a team, doesn't make sense
Yeah ofc you need a 6th and stuff I'm saying who has the power to decide what, can 2 players and the coach bench the other 3? What if the team fights and don't reach an agreement on who to bench? What if they are shit all year and for nepotism they agree not to bench anyone?
Alright

#66

jkjkjk

0

Frags

+

–

But anyway I'm missing the point, that would be like if Riot owned a team, doesn't make sense

Riot owns all the rights to all teams in regards to VCT partnership. Not sure what's so hard for you to comprehend. You're confused, they are paying each org.

Yeah ofc you need a 6th and stuff I'm saying who has the power to decide what, can 2 players and the coach bench the other 3? What if the team fights and don't reach an agreement on who to bench? What if they are shit all year and for nepotism they agree not to bench anyone?

You're describing issues that are applicable to partnership teams too. Not sure how this is specific to a FA team, or you're simply deluded on how team dynamics are actually working. In majority of teams the coach + some influential core of the players are the always the ones making these type of decisions.

#67

Mortadelo

0

Frags

+

–

No my friend no, in 100T all players and coach can want to stick together but Nadeshot has the power to say no, you've done shit, you're out. Who does that in an FA team? What if the core splits up? What if the coach the IGL and the duelist want to bench the other 3? Who tf has the power is what I'm saying

#69

jkjkjk

0

Frags

+

–

You just proved that you never played on a team nor do you understand how team dynamics work. eSports worked for many years without an org owner being involved. Wasting my time talking to you, you're truly clueless.

#73

orthoboy

0

Frags

+

–

1st Solution: Have a month long selection/interview process to choose an org same as they chose for partnership league for guest slot and they should field same 5 players and coach or make team decision for their players ( most illogical solution as orgs which wasted so much money had no ascension slot but this new org gets slot for two years)

2nd Solution: have Riot field the roster themselves under least franchised salaries and have the 5 players and coach have full control of themselves for what they plan to do(they have play for 2 years without any excuse in simple terms contract jail to play as guest for two years they cant split up but can make few changes and riot decide themselves how to proceed if any team break occurs) riot just provides practice space food and other necessities(riot loses money here but best solution if they want their so called competitive integrity)