It seems this is a genuine question, it's probably best to ask these on the valcomp subreddit btw cause you'll get more analytical takes. I can explain the reason here but I first want to make sure you actually do want to know, I'll have to put some time into it cause it goes into what made EDG good over the years (from 2022 onwards) and why 2024 Champs was the culmination of that

Lowkey true

They're moving away from it on most maps thankfully, ig breach is somewhat justified on sunset but iirc his winrate has never been great

Nobody has shared that he feels best calling on initiator, we've been able to see the negative affects on the midrounding when he isn't on a proactive agent who can gather info (whether that be through util, or agressively with a tp mechanic)

Also when double init is no longer meta, can we really be confident in S1mon to perform on roles where flashes/stuns aren't the main factor. I don't think his aim matches up to the t1 level, and his performance at bangkok was pretty evident of that. His main thing has always been very good support util and not much else

currently nobody and chichoo are sharing the role of IGL, they've shared that this has been far more comfortable for them. Chichoo has fit kind of into a secondary caller role anyway for at least a year now. On maps where nobody plays yoru it's likely chichoo takes over some parts of the midrounding. Smoggy has learnt the most roles out of everyone on EDG so it makes the most sense to keep him on flex, he probably hasn't learnt Yoru as much as Nobody has. Maybe in the future with more time/practice we could see Smoggy yoru, but regardless it seems the team succeeds the most when Nobody gets to play his game style - that's why you see him lurk so much

How exactly have you determined that it was a smear campaign and not S1mon actually being an issue

? He's playing smokes SO smoggy (who used to flex) can play other roles. Nobody said he wants to play Yoru

Not really, WOL are playing bad in general. Juicy also can't shoot in CN for some reason

?

hey I believe in the upset

It's been 2 maps, they might run him on yoru for others

EDG were very good at champs with S1mon, my point was they already started being shit somewhere between the start of bangkok and the end of cn split with him

Also nope I've watched HK/TW matches with S1mon
Answer me this, do you think his aim is good enough to be T1 level
We all saw his performance at bangkok

Sure he might be flexible, but his advantage has always been really good support flashes/stuns - once that is no longer important (this meta where double init is no longer viable apart from 1-2 maps) why would S1mon be the key to EDG's success

Would you prefer CHICHOO on viper or S1mon on viper?
Would you prefer Nobody on init or S1mon on init? (Since I believe you are an EDG fan, I think you know how EDG look whenever nobody isn't on init)
If S1mon was still on this team, he'd be made to play whatever Jieni is playing rn

LMFAOOOOOOO

Yeah it's cause he used to only play duelist, it wasn't until he was in the process of joining EDG that he started learning all the other roles. I was pretty impressed he even played omen pretty well today

He's just had even more time to practice and improve, looks like it's finally paying out

allegations? 😭
since when was that even in doubt, I doubt they'd lie about that
all the EDG players think he's hardworking too

zjc was picked up in the first place because EDG were still trying to lean into the same playstyle (double init) that won them champs - this is also what fan backlash/pressure has been wanting. They've finally realised that isn't going to work anymore in this new meta and that's why he's off

They have literally tried basically what you are suggesting, in their game against Trace - zjc had the chance to play recon, moving nobody off of init - and if you watched the match you can see how terribly that worked out, I haven't seen EDG play this lost since last year vs LOUD. In the past even, any time they have tried moving nobody off of init it hasn't worked well and calling has suffered - nobody himself has said he is most comfortable calling on init too.

Because of how packed the schedule has been recently, the fact they've had far more time to practice with Jieni than with zjc, and since they still need to ensure they actually make champs - are probably the reasons why EDG decided to go back to Jieni, he was the one they practiced trying new meta comps with the most and in the past - they've also been said to have been performing really well in scrims with him. And after today's game it's evident that they look far more comfortable, and aren't just randomly wandering around the map on attack.

And don't get me wrong, I was hype af when zjc was joning the team. And he still has a lot of potential, but since they're already in the split ig they'll need more time to cook with him, Jieni also used to be a duelist main so as of now he is more flexible - that can change in the future once zjc has more time to practice the other roles though, I do want to see him shine

biased? All I have said is he played well today - he made smart decisions and had better aim than zjc (TODAY)
I'm not sure what else you think I'm trying to imply

And TYL is a very good team

literally all I have said is he played well, I'm not the OP lmao
I'm also waiting for the next matches hoping he continues this performance
my point is the stats don't really do him justice (especially since Ascent ratings are still being calculated rn)

Also TYL is not a shit team, they are very good. You probably think this cause you don't watch CN
But this match today was of high quality

I think TRACE 2-1

What's your point? He played well this match, looks like he's practiced a lot
You're trying to say he hasn't, when the proof (the match) is he did - obviously you don't have to watch it, so why have such a strong opinion

they literally tried moving nobody off recon and it doesn't work
you've just proved you don't know what you're talking about

and why exactly do you think they would try S1mon on viper, a role he's not comfortable playing, do you think he's gonna suddenly be a good lurker? - instead of Chichoo who has been playing that almost his entire career

you're either baiting or stupid
chose which one

typical sen fan

I mean, he just doesn't play the roles they need him to since they've finally decided to stop forcing double init

did you watch the match, he played extremely well and smart

Unfortunately I don't think that's happening, from how all teams are playing it's likely TRACE will even beat BLG

Yeah they were trying to lean into fan backlash/pressure to play like they did with S1mon, when the meta has already changed - the current map pool is even worse for double init and the game today was the first time they have tried moving away from that (apart from the one vs Trace where they tried to move nobody off of init instead, which didn't work)

It wasn't much his fault as much as role problems were
Jieni is playing really well though

EDG was already shit with s1mon, they were getting worse in CN and scrims while with him. You just don't have any idea what you're talking about - if Simon was still on this team he'd have to flex onto either smokes/sentinel, viper or yoru. How do you think that would work out?

Have you perhaps considered due to meta changes that they were already falling off with simon, they were forcing the same double init comps from champs that were no longer meta, it was bound to cause issues for them. In CN and scrims, they were slowly looking much worse over time. S1mon has to either flex smokes, sentinel, viper, or yoru if he was still on this team

Role issues, double init is not really viable (except for 1 or 2 maps)

On all other maps where only one init is ideal, it either forces zjc onto an uncomfortable role or nobody off of initiator (what they did against trace, and did not work). Nobody seems to call and perform the best when playing init, and kk seems to coordinate better that way too

Jieni is able to flex more than zjc, at least for now. If zjc learns all roles jieni does and plays them better, we could potentially see him back. But if jieni works for them, it's likely they'll stay with him - and that may be wise

TYL is very good, that is not the bare minimum lmao

It wouldnt really work cause of the meta, double init isn't great rn. He'd have to be able to flex either smokes/sentinel or yoru

I think its fine, smoggy plays all roles very well. It makes more sense because he flexes better than jieni does

Ok after watching the match I understand, double init is no longer meta (at least on most maps). The init-duelist chemistry is not there when nobody is not on initiator, so keeping zjc doesnt work for them because of role issues. If zjc learns to play the roles that jieni must fulfill (omen rn) then potentially he may come back. But honestly if edg does well with jieni and these new roles then it might be wise to stick with him

zjc might be back later, I doubt they'd add him and try him for only this amount of time. I hope this is just an exception and not them actually going back to jieni

I lowkey wanna see Tyloo make champs too

Happens mainly in rural areas/low tier cities
the rub is often done by young kids who don't understand much
usually not racism, just curiosity - racism still exists though like anywhere else but interactions are usually friendly, not out of malice

in Shanghai they don't really gaf, they just go on with their day

they just need time, they weren't great when s1mon first joined either

FPX???
BLG??

Ye they consisently suck domestically

Lysoar is usually their best player statistically (in CN), this is pretty normal tbh

WOL has never been great in CN, the one time they were able to make an international was when EDG was missing. Their playstyle is structured but gets countered by CN, while matching up better against international teams. Check WOL's history in CN

I think WOL might not even win a single game ngl

they probably will ngl

They updated their api on the CN client since April, so ratings can be calculated

I read that Muggle isn't suited to organising double duelist, not that I even know what that means. They seriously need a coach change either way, EDG looked like they haven't even practiced getting used to the new roles/meta. Like where are the set strats?? drills? So confused whats going on

Perhaps, did not expect Scales to be so insane. Thoughts on ninebody? I feel like he's been so washed all year

You really do have to watch all the teams to know, I don't have the time for that and I doubt most do.

But I will say:

• AG will be a very good team, either now or in the near future. They are extremely well drilled.
• TYLOO is on the rise too, I don't think they will be as good as AG though
• BLG has been consistently very good all year, will stay that way for now
• TE - genuienly no idea, these guys are going up and down every few weeks. They have smart players and smart coaches, SHOULD be very good.
• EDG - sticking with zjc is good, but I honestly think they need a coach change if they ever wanna be near champs form again. They look like they haven't even practiced getting used to the new meta/roles
• WOL - They're still fine, they just always struggle in CN, and choke alot, they seem to not match up well against CN playstyle. This was true before toronto and seems to remain that way now, they'll be good internationally (if they even make it). Also please stop trying to cook with waylay