after death smokes + res are fire
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is clove viable in pro play
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i lowkey think a clove w a viper would be viable if u have an aimer on clove that plays proactive smokes
as long as omen exists, nobody will play clove just because omen paranoia is way too goated
Even if omen never existed, clove wouldnt be played. People would prefer Astra and they would even prefer Brim. Cloves abilities are selfish. I would go on to say even harbor would be preferred over clove. Clove has no abilites for site retake or site stall.
in double controller comps yes, like u mentioned the smoke after death is legit
Nope not really since firstly 12s smokes are atrocious and way too short and ur ult usage will be very selective since majority times they will run away and not take the duel instead of ego peeking like in rank
13.5 second smoke versus astra's 14.25 and omen's 15, it's not that big a deal
0.75s less than the best controller isn't "atrocious"
pick-me-up taking up an ability slot is the bigger problem in pro play
not in pro play... it's competing against omen tp, astra suck, and brim stim
what does the fact that it's worse than other agents' abilities changes to the fact that it's her best ability?
Its her best ability in rank, not in pro play, any agent that is selfish in their abilities is mostly not used in pro play
the fact that her ability is selfish and bad in a pro play environment doesn't change that it is her best ability and 50% of the reason why you play her. The decay isn't selfish but it doesn't make it a better ability. Clove is supposed to run around and kill people, sure that's selfish and not fit for pro play, but it doesn't change the fact that it is what you're supposed to do with it even in pro play if you happen to play her
Are you familiar with the term "opportunity cost"?
Picking one agent means you are giving up what another agent in that spot would bring
Yes the heal and speed boost are useful in scrappy combat, but a team that runs clove over astra loses the ability to suck an angle while scaling. A team that runs clove over omen loses the ability to peek from up high or from somewhere that needs a tp to get out
In that context, pick-me-up feels like lost value more than new opportunity
Which is why no one runs clove, not why it's her worst ability (and the meddle defo has a worse opportunity cost than a paranoia or a viper orb)
I don't know what you're trying to argue here. Whether it's their worst ability or just worse than other controllers' abilities, it represents a weakness in coordinated play
yeah and her other parts of kit except decay is pretty shit as well like astra can pick up the stars which are great for scaling
thats the diff between a successful exec and the heaven smoke fading letting the enemy jett get 2
them running away = free space on the attack and defense side that is insane value clove is smokes phoenix viable in weird situations on specific maps but viable nonetheless
The ult usage could be good for creating space. If you are just running away I will used the space and push the space with my team, so you either give me site by running away or stay and fight.
and in a double dome smoke comp because omen is still too strong. They could have basically been playing reyna that it wouldn't have been much different
we might see it if t2 teams experiment with it otherwise t1 teams won't ever not play omen especially with how powerful paranoia is
No, clove res kinda useless after all nerfs, smokes dont last long and she has no util that helps the team other then cove which isnt enough like omen blind or brims kit
not anymore, when clove could smoke one spot continuously yes but after that they dead
When clove first came out, I thought she could be awesome as a lurker, contest for space on the other side early on, even if thwy die they can smoke up the site for their team if they return to hit that site but I have never seen them used like that + its not even possible now due to 1 after death smoke
i think shes underrated for pro play but you can only play it on a few maps
clove propaganda was that you can play a smoker as an aggressive player but omen is literally right there AND he has useful util that helps himself or his team. What is clove even good for. The smoke after death is only good if you die in the site during postplant for your team
Clove's premise is a controller that can have their gun out on the frontline, like an Iso or Phoenix in a double duelist comp
The idea is that, instead of Omen throwing blind for Jett to go in alone, Clove and Jett can swing together, and it's fine for Clove to die and get traded
omen just has far more impactful util in pro play (tp for info, for faking, for taking space; paranoia is very big; ult is weaker than clove’s but still alright)
clove’s ult can also be countered in many situations if you know how to play around it (pro players do.)
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