sage picks are useless above silver

#1

Foxym

unless you run double senti

whats going to hold your flank?
whats going to help you hold site other than an easily destroyed wall?
how do you plan to use your heal if the team dies due to headshots?
and how do you plan on using your ult which leaves both, you and your teammate, voulnerable (easy to pick)?

an sage pick is acceptable if you run it with a traditional sentinel like killjoy or cypher, other than that, its useless

Edit:
An solo Sage can be good on certain maps (split), i Would just prefer that extra info gathering recieved by an traditional sentinel
and my opinion will stay that
frankly arguing my point is more frusttrating than playing with a solo sage
and i dont see a point in arguing this further

#2

kfan4238173

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its a good pick

#3

Foxym

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it creates big gaps around the map (mostly behind you) if you pick sage solo senti

also in higher elo, you often just get one tapped, the sage heal is useless there

the slow orbs are good for stall but generally, if you cant hold onto that space then, say, with a kj turret, a cypher trip, or any other passive info utility, you lost the round.
and just walling that off isnt going to work since they could send a group to fake while the "spike group" waits out the wall/rotates

#4

kfan4238173

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sage fills gaps W sage i like sage

#5

c4rrotstix

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w kfan

#6

Foxym

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play sage on any map and you are bound to be constantly flanked on

#8

kfan4238173

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just care flank

#9

Foxym

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cant if you activly need to support the entry with

smokes
Blind (omen paranoia)
Flashes
Recon utility
stuns

#10

kfan4238173

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just care flank after

#12

Foxym

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then you are isolated
an easy pick

also your team will be at a disadvantage
1 is planting
x(max 3) people are holding plant
1 is holding flank
and the enemy can just flood out with smokes, flashes, blinds and flank can get a pick

#16

cloudberry

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I hate Sage but flank watchers are not necessary

#31

Foxym

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i had a match where it was of upmost need, the enemy had 4 duelist, some are bound to flank to try and get a pick (which is exactly what happend)

#26

tonyhart

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"play sage on any map and you are bound to be constantly flanked on"

thats why you use the wall bro???? like tf are you doing

watch pro play also, they use sage to close choke point with wall

#27

Foxym

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i had a match where that happend, flank was a concern, and sage walled it off, i went to set my team up for entry (smokes and paranoia backside), yet they got slaughterd
so when we wanted to rotate we would have needed to waste time, make noise, and possibly run into a lurk behind the wall

Its not hard to play a traditional sentinel, you dont need to know a "1000 iq" setup, you just need to get info

#48

tonyhart

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I'am sorry but this is just a team issue

like what???? your argument literally can be said with any agent, not just sage

#49

Foxym

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sage was the reason we had issues rotating because of the Flank wall
frankly i dont have issues with rotates being blocked by your own sentinel other than sage

#33

Anguibok

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team in soloQ arent coordinated enough, to know if they are gap or not

She is sitting at 51.8% WR in ascendant, you are wrong ^^

#34

Foxym

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exactly,
and a sage isnt helping with that, a killjoy or cypher atleast gives information while letting your team move back
a sage wall is a blockade, for the enemy AND your team

#36

Anguibok

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You dont get my point. Sage or not, you WILL have gap in your soloQ team that opponent will exploit, Sage or not

#40

Foxym

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and you dont understand mine, a gap will always be there, yes, but atleast other sentinels can fill some gaps while sage cant

#44

Anguibok

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If they are gap you need to learn to play with gap, fill half of the gap is absolutely useless

#47

Foxym

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better to fill half the gaps then to leave them open, it would be nice to completly seal all gaps but that isnt possible
knowing how to play with a gap is harder than it sounds, especially when your team doesnt communicate (what the main issue during soloq is)

#50

Anguibok

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better to fill half the gaps then to leave them open

Less than having a Sage if i believe the datas :X
Sentinels just give a false sense of security, if half of the gap are open or if it's 100% in both case you have to play with the fact they are gap, 50% doesnt change anything

#7

sw4gman

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sage is a throw pick, always has been. Hate that they buffed that agent

#54

Heret1cx

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Does he know ( I, an iron, diffed an asc on sage)

#11

Gdgdfdgtttt

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sage is a good pick for almost all ranks, wall can stall pushes and even with the lack of senti util higher level players are already aware of the possiblity, i feel like sage gets worse the LOWER u go

#13

Foxym

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higher ranks are aware of the possibility, yes
yet it doesnt remove the fact that sage solo is only good for stall and not defending space
Wall is easily destroyable, and with that you need to reclear all that space the wall was "holding"

#52

Kirya

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Sage can defend and help her team reclear space well with slow orbs plus the buffed wall
Wall is not always easily destroyable, u dont have entire team at it every single time. Most of the time its only 1 person near the wall and it gets a lot of value
And even then if enemies break the wall they waste some time, they give info on their position as well. Plus you can just use wall to get into nasty off angles and get your teammates into insane off angles too
Slow orbs make it literally impossible to reclear some space for the enemy team for a good amount of time

#14

Pomshies

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No pick is useless at any rank below immortal

#15

Foxym

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my sages get 0 value of their utility

#17

Aayan

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@kirya

#18

1d

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agree but also who does that? only maps I saw sage were split, icebox and bind (sometimes ascent) and on all maps its a secondary senti pick

#22

Foxym

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thats what im saying

#19

9wntr

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solo sage on split is viable

#20

Densi

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If anything, the higher rank you are the better sage is, as the lack of trip is easier to play around if your team knows what they are doing and is aware of the timings it creates and what they have to reclear and when.

(Also map dependant obv)

#21

BerLINglazer

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voulnerable🥀

#23

obgleich

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What is your rank?

#24

fr0ster0p

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tell this to grim

#28

Foxym

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agro sages are ok, as long as you have a second senti
thats the point i am trying to make
IF YOU WANT TO PLAY SAGE, PLAY DOUBLE SENTI

#25

Galactc

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It just sounds like you play with shit sages tbh she's great on some maps and also has plenty of advantages which you decided to ignore if you want useless reyna is right there in any rank

#29

Raize1

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I mean if you don't wanna watch flank/have flank watch because of a sage you could also just fight forward into their spawn. It's not a bad pick, people just don't know how to effectively use the agent. That's a completely separate issue. But if through all of this you aren't able to discern that if you have a site you can take a 2 players away to watch flank or play post plant then idk man. It just seems like you lack a little understanding of the game

#32

Foxym

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i agree, sage is viable on SOME maps, but that doesnt justify running a solo sage on every map.
also, when i watch flank, 90% i get outaimed because i also have other things to worry about like, smoke refresh, site players going down, and the fact that 2 are approching me so im going to get traded if i manage to get a pick

#41

Raize1

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You can't be the guy worrying about everything there's 4 other players on the team.

#42

Foxym

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while that may be true, in soloq you cant expect to have your worries be relived, i was the only one comming yet was completly ignored, so i felt the need to worry about the things the others should relive me from

#30

chasethefuture

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Sage picks are not useless, sage players in ranked are useless. If you know how to play sage she is good on certain maps like split even as a solo senti

#38

Foxym

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i would still appreciate a second senti to fill gaps that sage cant
the wall mid on split is great but that means as a sage player you have to play close to mid incase they break your wall or just wait it out, meaning on of the sites will be weaker as you will either be playing A-Link or B-Link
a second senti could help with the gaps, but on split it isnt really that needed as you mainly need mid-control (and decent aim) to control the map,

#35

cryvi

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good point but bad arguments for it. before the recent buff i think she was the worst character in the game by a long shot. she's more viable now but the big problem is that her util gets wasted so fast. the flanks aren't a problem, if you have a good internal clock you can predict when they should be coming down the flank and care it, or push into their spawn. i actually quite like sage on attack but on defense you can break the wall, that forces her to slow, make some more sound she uses her second slow and now she has no util for whatever you were actually going to do. the heal being the rechargeable is insanely stupid. the way to fix sage is to make the slow rechargeable and the character actually has value

#55

dambi_glazer

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Interesting take
But terrible

#37

GarbanzoEnjoyer

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stats say otherwise

ranked in 99.9% of games is all about who fucks up less, and frankly it's unproductive to worry about sage's utility underperforming when your other teammates aren't using their kits within a semblance of optimal play to begin with

#39

Foxym

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true, i was telling our kayo to flash for the team so i wouldnt be forced to burn my paranoia so we can take A-Main, yet i was ignored
But our sage also did play terribly, either blocking us with her wall, or not blocking off the site chokes.

but i digress

#43

dambi_glazer

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What rank are you ?

#46

Foxym

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plat 1
i know it isnt good, but when i queue into solo sages that dont know their util, It pisses me off
generally when i queue into people that dont use/know their util, it pisses me off since it isnt helping the team win, what it is doing is hold the team back

#51

dambi_glazer

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Team comp barely matters below imo just aim better

#45

SleepingSnorlax

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Dogwater what rank it is just use a cypher even after nerf his info still helps

#53

Pusakabo0

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duelist sage>

#56

kenzyyy

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its ranked why you care about comps

#57

eStos

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is there honestly any Sentinel that would do great on it's own? Maybe Vyse and Deadlock, the rest of them are either dead or feel like duelists (like Chamber and Veto)

#58

weewoohereisdapolice

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Better pick than vyse or cypher atleast

#59

SENfns

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what if im grim?