Most recency biased debate of all time
Chronicle plays a match and he’s the best flex, then forsaken plays a match and he’s the goat flex
Personally I think chronicle is the goat flex, but I don’t think he’s the valorant goat like people say he is
Forsaken vs chronicle
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Valorant Discussion
He’s better because internationally his performances gap forsaken by a huge margin (other than Toronto). I don’t believe trophies to be the reason he’s better, because his teams have nearly always been better than forsaken’s, so that’s not a valid talking point.
Chronicle all time is better, f0rsaken lately has been better. Generally, f0rsaken has been more flexible imo
I kind of disagree. Chronicle is clearly willing to play anything, and the agents he plays he’s extremely good at. Yes, he doesn’t play as many different agents as forsaken because he’s be causing role issues with crashies/boaster/Alfajer if he did.
forsaken glaze is out of hand saw some people saying "he was never mid at internationals" hes never the best player on the team and usually isnt flexing in internationals, in his region he can play whatever the fuck he wants since he has 4 of the best players in the world on his side
also have to state that forsaken is only playing smokes and chronicle is only playing smoke senti for a good time period now
Masters Berlin: They won with Redgar playing Reyna on Haven, unserious tournament and year + nAts was the best player
Champions 2021: Lost to -31 Kiles
VCT 2022: AFK
VCT 2023: Almost lost Lockin against 2 LOUD rookies shitting their pants and LOUD's star players with serious health problems
- Had Alfajer and Leo as the 2 highest rated players in the world. Tokyo had the most asterisks of all time because of VISA issues, something(Pacific MVP) was not there, Demon1(Future Champs MVP) didnt practice with the team and LOUD(Americas Champions) was dead with internal issues. Masters Flukyo was confirmed as a fluke in Champions 23 when all of Fnatic's strongest competition were NOT that nerfed anymore, and all of them placed higher. 1 - EG, 2 - PRX(f0rsaken), 3 - LOUD (beat FNC twice), 4 - FNC
VCT 2024: Still couldnt crack a podium finish at Champions since 2021, even tho he is still in a superteam playing with all time greats
VCT 2025: Lost Toronto with Alfa being Thanos and choked Mickey Mouse EWC against the biggest chokers of all time. F0rsaken won Masters MVP against Chronicle. F0rsaken is the GOAT flex
forsaken repeatedly chokes grand finals and is often negative or nowhere near the best on his team
Chronicle lost a Champions Grand Final with prime nAts +31 on his team, and lost to a guy that was -31 in the other team. All of Derke, Alfajer, Leo and Nats were consistently better than Chronicle, f0rsaken was consistently the best PRX player, more often than not while being IGL
Forsaken was not consistently paper Rex’s best player, not by a long shot
Something was better than him in pac league 2023, better than him in champs, Jinggg was better than him in Tokyo, Davai was better in champs 23, something is better than him right now as well
Forsaken is prx best player because he’s the most consistent, but he hasn’t consistently been even close to prx’s best player
If he is the most consistent, he is PRX's best player, he is always top 1 or top 2 on his team, if he is usually the best, he is the best
He’s the most consistent of all of them, but he’s also not consistently the best of all of them. To say that he’s carrying them is a ludicrous statement, they’ve carried him as much as he has carried them.
When did a i say f0rsaken is carrying them? You're twisting my words
My bad. Thought u were implying it because chronicle is being carried according to you and forsaken is not, when forsaken has gotten carried at times just like chron.
Its okay, my point is just that f0rsaken, in the eye test(not stat steven measures), is the best flex ever, because he had a way harder journey/path than Chronicle, that was blessed by the circumstancs of playing with multiple all time greats.
Masters Toronto MVP is also a good tie break because it was a head to head where one of the players MVP'ed the tournament over the other
Stats are as important as eye test, because eye test favors flashy players.
Idk why people hate stats, they give you a system that is objective without bias, you need to look at both stats AND eye test.
Even in the grand finals chronicle played better than forsaken on icebox and as good or better on lotus. He lost because boaster went -31, and he had better tournament stats than forsaken. Idk how you can call chronicle the one getting carried when forsaken had way worse kd (as in he got less kills and died more than him) but still beat him, even when they played each other.
Forsaken lost a grand finals to an fpx who couldn’t practice or even play half the tournament with Suygetsu, got GROUPED at champions 2022, GOT GROUPED at champions 2024, went out almost immediately in Shanghai, has had one tournament with top 10 stats. Laughable comparison, chronicles worst moments aren’t anywhere near as bad.
Why don’t you post his bad moments too?
f0rsaken plays every agent in Valorant at a high level, Chronicle got consistently carried by top 10 players of all time in his team. Or do you want to compare Derke, Leo, Alfajer, Boaster, Nats with davai, jingg, something, mindfreak, benkai and patmen?
Chronicle has laughably higher stats individually than forsaken, how is he getting carried? If he’s getting carried what is forsaken? (He’s literally never been top 10 before Toronto?) also, something Jinggg and Davai are some of the most skillful players of all time, just because they don’t head many trophies don’t mean they aren’t comparable to fnc. Jingg literally carried prx at Tokyo, something and Davai carried forsaken at champs 23, etc etc
I can’t tell if you’ve actually watched any of these events, forsaken hasn’t been considered prx best player until just this year, and it’s only because he’s not as inconsistent as the others. At many times throughout prx’s history in valorant, many of the others were considered their best player (davai, something, Jinggg especially)
Chronicle has laughably higher stats individually than forsaken, how is he getting carried?
Leo, Alfa, Derke kaajak had even higher stats than him
something Jinggg and Davai are some of the most skillful players of all time, just because they don’t head many trophies don’t mean they aren’t comparable to fnc
Yes, they are very skilled, but I am 100% sure you would put most if no all of Chronicles teammates above them.
Jingg literally carried prx at Tokyo, something and Davai carried forsaken at champs 23, etc etc
Yes, every PRX player had their moments, but f0rsaken was consistently at the top end, unlike Chronicle that was consistently at the bottom with Boaster
I can’t tell if you’ve actually watched any of these events, forsaken hasn’t been considered prx best player until just this year, and it’s only because he’s not as inconsistent as the others
I watched all of these events and f0rsaken was always that guy, the most consistently good player on the team is the best player
To address your first point, that’s why chronicle ISNT THE GOAT of the game
But he’s better than forsaken.
Consistently near the bottom with boaster is straight up lying. Chronicle had one shit international his entire career, which was champs 2023. He was nearly as good as nats in Berlin (same rating and kd btw and grand finals mvp), the best player it’s at champs 21, pretty good at lock-in, 3rd best in Tokyo behind Alfa and Leo, individually incredible in champs 24, top 10 with better stats than forsaken in Toronto which prx won, and best player itw at EWC.
Btw if you’ve watched all these games, explained how ur goat had 0.93 kd at champs 24 and 0.89 kd at Shanghai. Doesn’t look like goat behavior to me
Again, Chronicle always played in superteams, having high stats is not hard in the teams he played
Chronicle made gambit a super team. Chronicle made fnatic a super team. To claim paper Rex aren’t a super team (which nearly everyone said after they added something) is dumb, the superteam argument is just dumb because the criteria for super teams is stupid; nrg 2024 was considered a super team when they obviously weren’t. The paper Rex guys have always been nearly as good as the fnatic players (with the exception of Mindfreak and Benkai)
Jinggg was better than forsaken at Tokyo, something was better at champs la and right now, Davai was better at champs la, Mindfreak was better at Copenhagen
Forsaken was prx best player at Toronto and Madrid and that’s it. To claim he’s consistently carrying is stupid.
To claim he’s consistently carrying is stupid
When did i claim this?
to add to this, fnc has never been grouped in champs. chron top 8 in toronto ( forsaken top 10 ), top 4 in champs 2024 even when they went out lr2 to g2, forsaken top 12 at shanghai, top 16 at madrid, champs 2023 chronicle had a big stinker, top 3 at tokyo, top 10 at lock in, didnt attend champs 2022 i think. Prx got grouped. chron wasnt in fnc at this time. didnt qual to any event cuz of russia drama. Copenhagen forsaken under top 20, top 12 in Reykjavik, chron top 4 in champs 2021, top 3 in berlin, neither chron nor paper rex played reykjavik 2021. id say this is enough proof although forsaken is the better flex
"F0rsaken was mid at internationals" How to tell someone u only watch stats without telling them. Buddy f0rsaken is the type of player who never baits or gets exit frags on the other hand chronicle does that a lot and u know vlr rating favours which type the most
Yeah if my aiming style was hella wild then I’d be more aggressive than if my aiming style is calm and composed, tf??
Not saying anyone's play style is better or worse, just telling u which one is favoured by vlr rating
The guy has multiple tournaments on 0.9 kd
Idc how many exit frags u have that kinda shit is not goat performance, and prx literally run it down in eco rounds, wdym he never gets eco kills? Are we watching the same game?
F0rsaken goes for many 1 for 1 kills which just have way more impact than chronicle multi frags. Sorry if my words hurt u but the truth is that u have never watched the games
forsaken > chronicle easy. chronicle must be the most overrated player ever. Carried by Alfa and Derke in 2023, Ghosted in 2022, needed daddy nats in 2021, 2024 0 international presence, 2025 u didnt make bangkok, Got carried to 2nd by kaajak + had TH curse buff against wolves.
TLDR: chronicle bum
fnc has never been grouped in champs. chron top 8 in toronto ( forsaken top 10 ), top 4 in champs 2024 even when they went out lr2 to sen, forsaken top 12 at shanghai, top 16 at madrid, champs 2023 chronicle had a big stinker, top 3 at tokyo, top 10 at lock in, didnt attend champs 2022 i think. Prx got grouped. chron wasnt in fnc at this time. didnt qual to any event cuz of russia drama. Copenhagen forsaken under top 20, top 12 in Reykjavik, chron top 4 in champs 2021, top 3 in berlin, neither chron nor paper rex played reykjavik 2021. id say this is enough proof although forsaken is the better flex
chronicle was their best player at champions berlin and carried the team in the masters finals idk where this narrative that he needed nats to carry him came from
Yeah it’s more revisionist history from people that never watched these events, I’m fully getting rage baited
Like chron mvped the grand finals, while nats did at champs 21
The same people that claim that nats carried chron at Berlin insist that nats carried him at champs as well because of the finals, like how stupid can they be
apparently he got carried to 2nd place in toronto by kaajak despite being better than him in 3 of the most important games
Kaajak was arguably worse than crashies chronicle and Alfa at Toronto, idk what these guys are smoking tbh
He was also frying in Tokyo, dropping 300 ACS on viper and apparently he was carried
we are really saying chronicle gets carried by Alfa and Derke as if f0rsaken doesn't have jingg and something. Also wdym no international presence in 2024 when they placed higher than PRX in champs.
My opinion is that Forsaken has had higher peaks but much MUCH lower lows, therefore I’d prefer a player like Chronicle
I mean its probably just chronicle > f0rsaken, unlike the reasoning with aspas not having perma having a good team. Both Chronicle and f0rsaken have had world class teammates most of their career.
f0rsaken's better flexibility literally comes down to him being with more inflexible teammates so i dont really like using that argument because FNC has literally never been held back because chronicle can't play x agent but I guess that'd be like saying aspas can play yoru but he doesn't need to because they artzin so ill say f0rsaken is more flexible.
Chronicle has more accolades and imo better mechanics so I think he just clears
But the real GOAT flex according to vlr will always be whoever has won a match more recently
What I don't think people are taking into consideration is that f0rsaken is playing more agents than chronicle while also having arguably greater impact in the server, incredible util, heavily fragging all while handling a lot of the IGL responsibilities for PRX. Chronicle has longevity on his side but part of that is because he's played the flex role much longer than f0rsaken has. For me f0rsaken takes the edge but I think its still too early in Valorant Esports to name a certain player GOAT or not.
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