One of the great igl's of the game, a good init, 2 champs, and yet he is still hated?
People say if nrg win again, and Ethan gets his 3rd trophy, he will become over rated and be top 3 OAT
My question is how isnt he already top 3 OAT
Why ethan hate?
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Valorant Discussion
nobody hates ethan
ppl just hate fans who glaze a player way too much
he is hated cause other people think put him in goat conversations
the people who hate him are the people who think he got carried in 23 and 25
ILikeEsports [#3]he is hated cause other people think put him in goat conversations
the people who hate him are the people who think he got carried in 23 and 25
He is in the goat convo
VB3737 [#4]He is in the goat convo
ik, i meant that people are hating on ethan cause they think hes overrated because other people keep him in the goat convo
yea i just realise i messed up my sentence
Divine_Thunder [#2]nobody hates ethan
ppl just hate fans who glaze a player way too much
Maybe hate was too strong of a word but they're people who think he is over rated by being top 3 OAT, assuming he wins a 3rd trophy
Like what???
Hes top 3 rn already with 2 champs undeniably. This 3rd trophy jusr propells him further
egann [#7]he won 2 champs, is gorgeous, AND has a wife???
how could you not hate him
This ^^
People started putting him in the GOAT list just because he has 2 Champs. no hate to him
t0t0_wolff [#9]People started putting him in the GOAT list just because he has 2 Champs. no hate to him
People called him the best after he confirmed he was the best.
No way
VB3737 [#6]Maybe hate was too strong of a word but they're people who think he is over rated by being top 3 OAT, assuming he wins a 3rd trophy
Like what???
Hes top 3 rn already with 2 champs undeniably. This 3rd trophy jusr propells him further
based on trophies alone he is the best but u cant only consider trophies. even acend has a champs
t0t0_wolff [#9]People started putting him in the GOAT list just because he has 2 Champs. no hate to him
I mean, that's more champs trophies than the two other goats.
He also had two different roles with both of his trophies, Flex when Boostio was IGL and C0M midrounded on EG and Primary IGL/FLex on NRG. Two very different styles of play and he was still able to get two Champs trophies while putting up pretty good numbers for his age/role.
Another reason being is that these aren't masters trophies, Ethan went up against the best teams of each year, each team was warmed up, had their best players for the year, had their strats decided, there wasn't any "Oh we still have the year to prep." THIS IS WHAT YOU PREPPED FOR. Ethan beat out the best teams of 2023 AND 2025.
He wasn't carried hard either, yeah he didn't show up very much in 23, but he dropped 77/62 in the GF against fnatic and he's almost 30.
Ethan will always be in the GOAT convo for me.
Madouza [#14]I mean, that's more champs trophies than the two other goats.
He also had two different roles with both of his trophies, Flex when Boostio was IGL and C0M midrounded on EG and Primary IGL/FLex on NRG. Two very different styles of play and he was still able to get two Champs trophies while putting up pretty good numbers for his age/role.
Another reason being is that these aren't masters trophies, Ethan went up against the best teams of each year, each team was warmed up, had their best players for the year, had their strats decided, there wasn't any "Oh we still have the year to prep." THIS IS WHAT YOU PREPPED FOR. Ethan beat out the best teams of 2023 AND 2025.
He wasn't carried hard either, yeah he didn't show up very much in 23, but he dropped 77/62 in the GF against fnatic and he's almost 30.
Ethan will always be in the GOAT convo for me.
no disrespect to your comment but it isn’t an IGL’s job to frag, it’s great if they can/do, but most of the time ethan probably spends his rounds either looking up at his map or pulling util out for his duelists to entry. Ethan to me has always been an incredible player, easy one of the greatest of all time i don’t understand why people would even try to debate it his resume speaks for itself. you don’t win than many trophy’s and attend that many internationals if you’re dead weight, especially as an IGL.
VB3737 [#12]Maybe that's the only aspect of this argument your shallow head could understand
Ethan was never the best player, unlike aspas. Your only argument is his trophy count. Using that logic these players are just as much in the GOAT conversation as aspas
Madouza [#14]I mean, that's more champs trophies than the two other goats.
He also had two different roles with both of his trophies, Flex when Boostio was IGL and C0M midrounded on EG and Primary IGL/FLex on NRG. Two very different styles of play and he was still able to get two Champs trophies while putting up pretty good numbers for his age/role.
Another reason being is that these aren't masters trophies, Ethan went up against the best teams of each year, each team was warmed up, had their best players for the year, had their strats decided, there wasn't any "Oh we still have the year to prep." THIS IS WHAT YOU PREPPED FOR. Ethan beat out the best teams of 2023 AND 2025.
He wasn't carried hard either, yeah he didn't show up very much in 23, but he dropped 77/62 in the GF against fnatic and he's almost 30.
Ethan will always be in the GOAT convo for me.
The only reason I hate Ethan being called one of the greatest IGLs ever is because he only did well in one tournament, and most people would say that Bonkar had much more influence on their win than his IGLing.
lIke I see much more people praising bonkar for there win then ethans igl,
I think he is top 5 in the Goat convo but goat igl is just not true for me
Tyzehhxo [#15]no disrespect to your comment but it isn’t an IGL’s job to frag, it’s great if they can/do, but most of the time ethan probably spends his rounds either looking up at his map or pulling util out for his duelists to entry. Ethan to me has always been an incredible player, easy one of the greatest of all time i don’t understand why people would even try to debate it his resume speaks for itself. you don’t win than many trophy’s and attend that many internationals if you’re dead weight, especially as an IGL.
Yeah for sure, IGL's are mainly supposed to call. But calling does typically hinder an IGL's capability to frag (Aside from some exceptions.) But The fact that he was New to the role, ALMOST 30, and STILL fragged out as IGL was why I mentioned it, I wouldn't if he was experienced on IGL for a while.
Madouza [#18]Yeah for sure, IGL's are mainly supposed to call. But calling does typically hinder an IGL's capability to frag (Aside from some exceptions.) But The fact that he was New to the role, ALMOST 30, and STILL fragged out as IGL was why I mentioned it, I wouldn't if he was experienced on IGL for a while.
yeah it’s insane how well he plays for his age, especially IGLing, a job that’s incredibly taxing on you compared to the rest of your teammates, not to downplay them, but it’s your word they listen to, you have to make the right calls and be able to read what the other team is doing.
Madouza [#18]Yeah for sure, IGL's are mainly supposed to call. But calling does typically hinder an IGL's capability to frag (Aside from some exceptions.) But The fact that he was New to the role, ALMOST 30, and STILL fragged out as IGL was why I mentioned it, I wouldn't if he was experienced on IGL for a while.
he is not 30, he is young , he is only 25 , people don't know his age cuz it feels like he has been here for a long time
VB3737 [#6]Maybe hate was too strong of a word but they're people who think he is over rated by being top 3 OAT, assuming he wins a 3rd trophy
Like what???
Hes top 3 rn already with 2 champs undeniably. This 3rd trophy jusr propells him further
Bro has a combined attendance of 4 events and happend to have around a strong team...some might call it fluke
But when you have other IGLS like Boaster,FNS, saadhak going consistenly to events and place lot of top 4....makes them look better
We need ETHAN to be consitent now....If he bombs out for the rest of 2026 , He will be exposed
But he has a case of being among the best...and he won only 1 as IGL
mKeLQx2 [#17]The only reason I hate Ethan being called one of the greatest IGLs ever is because he only did well in one tournament, and most people would say that Bonkar had much more influence on their win than his IGLing.
lIke I see much more people praising bonkar for there win then ethans igl,
I think he is top 5 in the Goat convo but goat igl is just not true for me
He's not one of the greatest IGLs ever, his callings good but it is bonkar for the most part.
I think people mix the meaning behind GOAT player and GOAT Igl. Ethan in my personal opinion is right below Aspas in the GOAT convo
(#1: Chron, #2: Aspas, #3: Ethan)
2 world champs wins has a lot more weight than a masters trophy, since a champs tournament is most of the time full of the best teams of that year, this is the tournament they prepped the whole year for and the ones that made it were the ones that were leagues above everyone else. The first international is sometimes a fluke, 2nd one is when people start getting good and ironing out mistakes, Champs is when most teams are at their peak. The fact that Ethan played a pretty pivotal role in two champs winning rosters means a lot more to me than ASpas's 1 and Chron's lack Thereof. Most of the time Nobody makes a champs tourney on accident and most of the time if they do, they just get grouped. (unless you're giantX or acend for some reason? but you get the idea)
1Arch [#20]he is not 30, he is young , he is only 25 , people don't know his age cuz it feels like he has been here for a long time
I could've SWORN than man was 27.
I just checked he's 26, I WAS PRETTY FUCKIN' CLOSE-
Madouza [#22]He's not one of the greatest IGLs ever, his callings good but it is bonkar for the most part.
I think people mix the meaning behind GOAT player and GOAT Igl. Ethan in my personal opinion is right below Aspas in the GOAT convo
(#1: Chron, #2: Aspas, #3: Ethan)
2 world champs wins has a lot more weight than a masters trophy, since a champs tournament is most of the time full of the best teams of that year, this is the tournament they prepped the whole year for and the ones that made it were the ones that were leagues above everyone else. The first international is sometimes a fluke, 2nd one is when people start getting good and ironing out mistakes, Champs is when most teams are at their peak. The fact that Ethan played a pretty pivotal role in two champs winning rosters means a lot more to me than ASpas's 1 and Chron's lack Thereof. Most of the time Nobody makes a champs tourney on accident and most of the time if they do, they just get grouped. (unless you're giantX or acend for some reason? but you get the idea)
Actually, that’s valid. And just because I’m curious, would you put Fnatic’s back-to-back grand finals over NRG’s Champions win? And if so, would you say that Boaster is higher in the GOAT conversation than Ethan if you value IGLs in it? I feel like reaching back-to-back finals shows that you’re kind of better than every other team.
2 gf 2 master trophies beat 2 champs in my opinion
Gugul1 [#21]Bro has a combined attendance of 4 events and happend to have around a strong team...some might call it fluke
But when you have other IGLS like Boaster,FNS, saadhak going consistenly to events and place lot of top 4....makes them look better
We need ETHAN to be consitent now....If he bombs out for the rest of 2026 , He will be exposed
But he has a case of being among the best...and he won only 1 as IGL
nah he's the goat imo, was the best support player in 23 had to deal with multiple roster changes in 2025 and elevated to a word class IGL. Ever int he's been to hes placed top 4 so he's definitely consistent when he makes it to LANS.
Rephros [#26]nah he's the goat imo, was the best support player in 23 had to deal with multiple roster changes in 2025 and elevated to a word class IGL. Ever int he's been to hes placed top 4 so he's definitely consistent when he makes it to LANS.
Leo was the best support though as well the best player, but I see your point...But To me these short spams feel like more luck you cant make 2 grandfinals and dont qualify for 2 years ....
If anyone genuinely hates Ethan they have to be like 9 years old at best. There's no reason to hate the guy whatsoever
ethan is like a 9-5 worker that just plays his game and goes home at the end of the day
ninjaturtle [#29]If anyone genuinely hates Ethan they have to be like 9 years old at best. There's no reason to hate the guy whatsoever
it the fans more than the Guy ,
mKeLQx2 [#25]Actually, that’s valid. And just because I’m curious, would you put Fnatic’s back-to-back grand finals over NRG’s Champions win? And if so, would you say that Boaster is higher in the GOAT conversation than Ethan if you value IGLs in it? I feel like reaching back-to-back finals shows that you’re kind of better than every other team.
2 gf 2 master trophies beat 2 champs in my opinion
Yes, that's why chron is #1. I wouldn't put boaster there necessarily because his individual skill is not also there. But He's got a great mind and he's definitely #1 IGL of all time.
Ethan I'd put in GOAT players because not only did he IGL for a champs winning roster he also has some good mechanical skill and did his job as an initiator on top of that. He was able to play to help himself but also his team.
In order to be a goat player you have to check all the boxes:
- Have good mechanics
- Have good results
- Have good Util usage and know how to play your agent class while keeping up with the rest of the competition.
Goat IGL and Goat PLAYER are two different lists. Like how Goat Duelist and Goat Senti are two different things.
AlittleMio [#16]Ethan was never the best player, unlike aspas. Your only argument is his trophy count. Using that logic these players are just as much in the GOAT conversation as aspas
Good init, good igl, led team to 2 champs. Starxo kiles = fluke
Aspas = not even best player on his champs team whilr being a non igl
Ethan clears lmaoo
VB3737 [#34]Good init, good igl, led team to 2 champs. Starxo kiles = fluke
Aspas = not even best player on his champs team whilr being a non igl
Ethan clears lmaoo
Ethan 2 flukes
skulll
Divine_Thunder [#2]nobody hates ethan
ppl just hate fans who glaze a player way too much
I mean lowkey isn't that nAts fans sometimes? All that hype to choke in swiss.
Rephros [#26]nah he's the goat imo, was the best support player in 23 had to deal with multiple roster changes in 2025 and elevated to a word class IGL. Ever int he's been to hes placed top 4 so he's definitely consistent when he makes it to LANS.
sure, but now hes in a position where he can show his actual consistency at internationals and he still needs to do that, also cant call him a world class IGL until we see him with another coach but i think he will be fine
he's not a top igl, but he is a top player overall.
Good mechanics
2 world championships
A masters trophy likely on the way
Plays his role well
Knows how to call a round well enough to where even his players who get themselves into good conditions ask "Ethan what do I do?" (check their comms videos, this happens a lot.)
The fact that he's pushing 30, can garner a good enough amount of trust from his teammates to get 2 champs trophies, AND when he isnt getting those trophies is still decently relevant throughout his career. Makes him a top player in my eyes. Top IGL is far away by a long shot, he's top 20 if we're being generous, below bonecold and he's retired. But as an overall player he's able to reach that GOAT rating.
Madouza [#39]he's not a top igl, but he is a top player overall.
Good mechanics
2 world championships
A masters trophy likely on the way
Plays his role well
Knows how to call a round well enough to where even his players who get themselves into good conditions ask "Ethan what do I do?" (check their comms videos, this happens a lot.)The fact that he's pushing 30, can garner a good enough amount of trust from his teammates to get 2 champs trophies, AND when he isnt getting those trophies is still decently relevant throughout his career. Makes him a top player in my eyes. Top IGL is far away by a long shot, he's top 20 if we're being generous, below bonecold and he's retired. But as an overall player he's able to reach that GOAT rating.
Also he came from cs so this shows that cs is better than val
Rephros [#26]nah he's the goat imo, was the best support player in 23 had to deal with multiple roster changes in 2025 and elevated to a word class IGL. Ever int he's been to hes placed top 4 so he's definitely consistent when he makes it to LANS.
you skipped over 2024 bud. and although it was plumber era, 21 and 22 achievements count for something. doing well at 2 internationals is top 20 OAT material fs, but he didn't even do individually well, he IGLed. he certainly couldn't call for shit in 24.
ethan is the GOAT if he wins santiago, just isnt possible to compete with 3 post-franchise trophies + consistent top placements
SudokuDude [#37]I mean lowkey isn't that nAts fans sometimes? All that hype to choke in swiss.
ppl put nats in goat debate because of his individual skills
and
ppl put ethan in goat debate because of his trophy cabinet
Divine_Thunder [#44]ppl put nats in goat debate because of his individual skills
and
ppl put ethan in goat debate because of his trophy cabinet
Individual skill + trophies
Tyzehhxo [#15]no disrespect to your comment but it isn’t an IGL’s job to frag, it’s great if they can/do, but most of the time ethan probably spends his rounds either looking up at his map or pulling util out for his duelists to entry. Ethan to me has always been an incredible player, easy one of the greatest of all time i don’t understand why people would even try to debate it his resume speaks for itself. you don’t win than many trophy’s and attend that many internationals if you’re dead weight, especially as an IGL.
Nobody is saying he's deadweight. He does his job, and has had a great resurgence in his career from the 100t days.
he however, isn't in the goat discussions. It's why Dupree isn't in the goat discussion in CS. It's why Beryl isn't in goat discussions in League for supp.
Hell, in CS even dev1ce is barely mentioned in Goat discussions. Who is though? A player with 1 major. He was in the conversation before he even won a major. That's what Goat discussions should be about. Not distinct accolades. They help. It's more individuality as a player.
Ethan is a great player, with a great career. He has also been in the right team, at the right time. he was in the EG team before most of the players fell off the planet. He struggled at NRG, then Bonkar turned the team around and they've been on a tear ever since. He deserves his dues, but he isn't one of the goats. His individual game as a player isn't the best, and there's other players who do it better. Him as an IGL in his system, is working wonders and he'll achieve far more than what he currently has. However I doubt it would put him in top3 as an individual player. He'll be apart of the best team of all time if NRG stay consistent. Best player of all time, no shot.
VB3737 [#34]Good init, good igl, led team to 2 champs. Starxo kiles = fluke
Aspas = not even best player on his champs team whilr being a non igl
Ethan clears lmaoo
brother. Ethan did not lead EG to the champs win. Demon1 putting in one of the best individual performances we saw to date, led them to the win.
He led his team to 1 win, I'll admit. The last map he won them the series. Played his heart out, and was phenomenal. His read on Fnatic was insane, and the adaptations NRG made throughout the series was great.
With champs 22, Less was on a tear and was the best sentinel in the world, and was one of the best for 3 years after that. It's only his vitality performance that took him out of the conversation for that. Before that he was always a top3 sentinel main.
As an individual, which is what GOAT conversations are always on about. Aspas is clearly the best individual player to touch Valorant. 5 years of consistency, taking what is considered weak rosters on deep runs.
Hell, s1mple was called the goat for 6 years before his first major win. He was called the goat over players with 4 majors. Hell, dupree which has the most major wins, isn't even in the top 5 conversation for best CSGO player of all time. Dev1ce is barely in the top5 conversation as is, and he has 4, with multiple MVP awards for each event.
Raevus [#47]brother. Ethan did not lead EG to the champs win. Demon1 putting in one of the best individual performances we saw to date, led them to the win.
He led his team to 1 win, I'll admit. The last map he won them the series. Played his heart out, and was phenomenal. His read on Fnatic was insane, and the adaptations NRG made throughout the series was great.
With champs 22, Less was on a tear and was the best sentinel in the world, and was one of the best for 3 years after that. It's only his vitality performance that took him out of the conversation for that. Before that he was always a top3 sentinel main.
As an individual, which is what GOAT conversations are always on about. Aspas is clearly the best individual player to touch Valorant. 5 years of consistency, taking what is considered weak rosters on deep runs.
Hell, s1mple was called the goat for 6 years before his first major win. He was called the goat over players with 4 majors. Hell, dupree which has the most major wins, isn't even in the top 5 conversation for best CSGO player of all time. Dev1ce is barely in the top5 conversation as is, and he has 4, with multiple MVP awards for each event.
I was planning to say this aswell but yk sometimes reasoning doesnt work
AlittleMio [#48]I was planning to say this aswell but yk sometimes reasoning doesnt work
Like Ethan is a phenomenal player, but was never THE win condition of the team. He isn't the catalyst that suddenly brought success. Bonkar was the main catalyst to NRG changing as a team, and finding peak form. EG was Demon1 being the catalyst, and potter. Ethan is a great player, who managed to find two teams where their system activated him as a flex, and now igl.
Aspas joined a meh Lev, went on a deep run. He joined a arguably meh MIBR, and went on a deep run. All throughout weak teams, his form never dropped. Across 5 years, his form has never dropped.
Even though I'm not a big Aspas fan, I have to admit he's the best individual to touch the game since Leo. However we cant include Leo in these talks anymore, as he's a big 'What If' player now
VB3737 [#45]Individual skill + trophies
ethan's individual skills is barely top 10 brother.
Pototo [#35]nobody hates him....its just he has the personality of an NPC
no pro player but boaster has a personality
Divine_Thunder [#50]ethan's individual skills is barely top 10 brother.
Im cryinggg
Your country has no top 10k players. Dont talk about skill. Youve produced none
VB3737 [#52]Im cryinggg
Your country has no top 10k players. Dont talk about skill. Youve produced none
0 correlation to the argument btw
Frode369 [#51]no pro player but boaster has a personality
demon1, KK, forsaken, Babybay, texture, benkai, alecks.... etc come to mind
Gugul1 [#21]Bro has a combined attendance of 4 events and happend to have around a strong team...some might call it fluke
But when you have other IGLS like Boaster,FNS, saadhak going consistenly to events and place lot of top 4....makes them look better
We need ETHAN to be consitent now....If he bombs out for the rest of 2026 , He will be exposed
But he has a case of being among the best...and he won only 1 as IGL
as if boaster didnt have derke, leo, alfa, chron, etc
fns had yay, crashies, victor, and marved all in their primes
saadhak had aspas, less, pancada, sacy, etc
ethan had hiko back in the day, demon1 for 2/3 of a year, jawgemo, and his current team is very good but they are too young right now to be put in the same category as those other players for those other igls
point is ethan def has good teams but i dont think its even close to what other great igls have had
love him as a person but he gets overly glazed when he’s only above average at best
if he wins santiago then it’s justified
i feel like he doesnt have as much aura as Aspas or Chronicle, hes just there and he just collects trophy like theres not that much to him
great igl but u got demon1 on your squad.. the same when ppl rank booster high like bro look whos on your tesm...
meowmeowkitty333 [#55]as if boaster didnt have derke, leo, alfa, chron, etc
fns had yay, crashies, victor, and marved all in their primes
saadhak had aspas, less, pancada, sacy, etcethan had hiko back in the day, demon1 for 2/3 of a year, jawgemo, and his current team is very good but they are too young right now to be put in the same category as those other players for those other igls
point is ethan def has good teams but i dont think its even close to what other great igls have had
Ethan wasnt an igl back then. Ppl need to stop putting him in goat igl debates.
Because he doesn't have many haters, and people don't like that
He's too tuff
sentinelmain377 [#60]Ethan wasnt an igl back then. Ppl need to stop putting him in goat igl debates.
no im not even saying hes top 3 thats actually delusional but that guy mustve forgot the literal goats that fns, boaster, and sadhaak had as teammates that was just a shit argument
meowmeowkitty333 [#62]no im not even saying hes top 3 thats actually delusional but that guy mustve forgot the literal goats that fns, boaster, and sadhaak had as teammates that was just a shit argument
but FNS/Saadhak were attending basically all events for 3 years. Even with literal goats besides you, you need to be a good IGL for that to happen. Remember that a superteam without a good IGL+Coach system always fails.
SudokuDude [#37]I mean lowkey isn't that nAts fans sometimes? All that hype to choke in swiss.
nAts is just overrated by delusional EMEA fans. just ignore them
meowmeowkitty333 [#55]as if boaster didnt have derke, leo, alfa, chron, etc
fns had yay, crashies, victor, and marved all in their primes
saadhak had aspas, less, pancada, sacy, etcethan had hiko back in the day, demon1 for 2/3 of a year, jawgemo, and his current team is very good but they are too young right now to be put in the same category as those other players for those other igls
point is ethan def has good teams but i dont think its even close to what other great igls have had
NRG and Vit have super shooters as well, why were they not winning
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