Sacy on gekko during madrid was not one of the main reasons they won.
Zekken having a life game every single game, was one of the main reasons.
Johnqt performing insanely well on sentinels and viper, is one of the main reasons.
Tenz being a good and consistent flex, was one of the main reasons.

Sacy being the 2nd lowest rated gekko the whole event, was not one of the main reasons. The guy is an insane sova and skye player, but his gekko during madrid looked awful. Wingman got the plants down, but the rest of his util just looked ass compared to other Gekko players at madrid.

It isn't just because it's young.
It's because CS is so similar and shares the exact same fundamentals. Adjusting to abilities just takes getting used to.
People forget that aim and core mechanics can easily get people into high imm/rad, and then once you're fully used to the game flow, going into comp isn't hard. Especially if we're talking about people who've been competing for years, at a high level.

It's why xaccurate spent a few months just grinding ranked. Joined a t1 team.

People forget KennyS played val for like 2 months and hit radiant. This is one of the most washed t1 players at the time. Xaccurate swapped, and is playing in tier1.
Valorant isn't some hyper complex game. It just takes some adjusting, and if you're playing 8hours a day. You'd adjust in a couple months. Especially if you're the top 0.001% in a similar title.

He probably would.
People overestimate how easy it is to adjust to valorant from CS, if you've spent 20k+ hours in one game.
A couple months of spamming the game to adjust, and he's easily be at tier 1 level.

People genuinly overestimating the complexity of valorant. We're not talking about a random gold nova swapping. We're talking about probably the most naturally gifted CS player of all time.

Saying they lost 13-4 to a team who didn't win a series at their previous event, insinuates that said team isn't good.

I'm not saying you meant that, I'm just saying that's how it comes off.

I agree with everything you said. Fnatic look stuck in last year, minus the co-ordination they had. they look a lot more sloppy, and chaotic with their pushes. Just small mistakes aswell, like planting for C long while no smokes on CT.
They just seem messy overall. Like they lost their foundation/structure ingame

They might not be feeling it, that's true. It's why I said the coach shouldn't shoulder all the blame of the team losing.
However you can't deny that the fnatic we've seen at kick off quals, and today are completely different to fnatic last year. That's not regarding their comps, map bans, etc. Their general teamwork looks messy and hectic.

Boaster saying masters teams were not great, was a yikes. Was just weird because he's usually humble.

Saying heretics not winning a series considering how close the games were, is a bit eh. Same can be said when Fnatic lost 3-0 against sen. On paper of the overall score it seems they got slammed, but every map could have gone either way.
With heretics, especially against sen. It could have gone either way. They're hardly a bad team to lose against.

.

Coach shouldn't shoulder all responsibility, but Fnatic as a team look night and day compared to when Mini was headcoach.

Like, they just look far more lost and messy compared to last year.

inb4 he destroys EDG

nah, not player changes.
Just shows the impact having mini as head coach was.

Also ironic they picked up a coach who's old team went to masters finals, while his new team couldn't qual.

Bro is forgetting that old CS heads were known for not changing their gear, or brands. It's why Zowie was still a top3 mouse brand in CS, as was Steelseries.
This was like this until the newer generation of pros, where swapping mice, mousepads, keyboards, became more normalised.

shrouds take on keeping brand with mouse and mousepad is kinda dumb though. Him saying dont change mousepads often and mice often is just an old CS mentality.

I'm more saying that you can't judge him based off one event, and act like he's back to his old self.
He had an amazing event, and won it deservingly. Nothing will take that away. He had a great showing, and performed great.

What we can say, is the people who compare him to his old self during 2021, saying "TenZ is back" based off one event, is recency bias. We dont know if he'll perform well in his next, meaning this is a one off, etc.

I hope it's not a one off, and I hope he performs well so the recency bias disappears because it's a bore to read every day when a new post is up.

Becuase it is recency bias wym?

Recency bias is placing a bias on the most recent event/moment of a topic, and judging it's importance far above the history. This is an exact moment of that.

TenZ had an standout event for the first time in 3 years. Forgetting his past 2 years because of one event, is recency bias. Plus necroing a year old posts is kinda odd.

It's why TenZ performance is seen as recency bias, where as Zekken's is not.
Zekken has been a top performer for since xset days.
TenZ had times in the past two years where he looked lost in his role, swapped role, looked average in the role and inconsistent. He finally found his form and showed moments of brilliance on the role. right now it's recency bias, after the next event it probably wont as he honestly looked great this past event.

Solid response from someone who's clinically on vlr

He needs to get a grip. It's 10pm on a Thursday and he's necroing 2year old threads because of recency bias.

Just saw this.

You can, talk to people who your country is at war with.
What you probably shouldn't do, is say Ukraine needs to be one with Russia again, to a Ukrainian person, shortly after a war started between the countries.

didn't he get dropped because he sent a ukranian girl messages on twitter like a week after a war broke out?

I might be wrong, but wasn't that the reason he was dropped?

If it was the one by the bleed analyst, then it's this one
https://x.com/_SushantJha/status/1709948922188509324?s=20

I do remember seeing the champ graph of his clutches, but couldn't find it.

think he had the highest of 2023

tbh people said the same with Lakia. He was a sub and they intend to have him play. Instead they keep him as a sub so no other team can pick him up.

I do agree with your post aswell. Termi trolled hard past year with his timeouts, and vetos. 2023 was by far not his best year, nor the team as a whole.

tbh I expected more than what we got.
They only lost to PRX and DRX in the league, then just went on to play so mid in masters and champs. Was hoping for more since they got Xeta and Saya, who were two good players in NA at the time. Especially Saya.

An org will look at cost + return.
They were broke and couldn't afford players in tier2 due to buyout contracts. If they had the funds, runi and jakee probably wouldn't have been on their radar, as there are better individule players in tier2. After yay was dropped, and c9 players were going back on their old roles. I initially thought they'd get someone like brawk, zander, or nisimo.

c9 were just fortunate that their risk of picking up two free agents, payed off and they went on a tear through the whole event.

Orgs should look at potential talent, and one day we'll get that when academy teams will become a thing. It's just with franchise, orgs can't take the risk of picking up an inexperienced or young player. C9 just didn't have a choice in their situation.

It makes perfect sense.

My whole pov, althought not the same.

For GC players, they excel in GC. These players struggle against t3 male teams. the gap between the top of tier2 and tier1 is small, as the players in both leagues were competing against each other for years, and could all honestly play in each league, despite a few superstar players.
In a couple years, I can see flo being in tier2. Right now she's still like what, 17. she's still learning. I feel people treat her like shes monesy, being a young phenom. She's a great player, but given a few more years to develop, she'll leave GC behind her hopefully, and compete in t2, and maybe t1. Right now though, she's the only one I can see with the potential to push through. I'd say Mary, but she retired unluckily. bob, sarah, and mel. there are better choices grinding in t3 atm, who arent good enough to play in t2, let alone t1.

I agree with skuba. I also think brawk would have been a great pickup if they had the money aswell. Hell, Zander would have been a phenomenal pickup over Jakee, aswell as Nismo. However they were broke and went with two players who nobody believes in, and who both performed pretty well considering they were thrown into the deep end, with huge amounts of pressure on them.

Bob could have been picked up, but there's no chance C9 post yay dropping was paying a buyout. Bob flo, and sarah are the 3 NA GC players who have mechanics to contest top of current t3. I can't seen them competing 1-1 against the current t2 teams for a spot as initiator and Duelist. The current t2 teams sova and duelist players are all cracked out of their minds.

top t3 teams, I can see Sarah or bob competing for a spot. Flo, I think the current teams aiming for ascension have Jett players who are just better than her right now.

I agree with that them being 1:1. I'd even argue that overall, GC is a better league, as I believe the general skill ceiling is higher in GC than collegiate leagues. This is mainly down to teams having players join, because they need to fill numbers.
The only thing with Jakee, was experience in what was tier2 at the time, with good performances. It's just his most recent great performances before the c9 pickup, was him on his college team.

During the good ol' days of Fish123 and Fnatic Proving Grounds.

I agree that the t3 pool isn't as bad as I might make it out to be. In the grand scheme of t1/2/3, it's "dogshit". compared to the world, it's still something 99% of players dream about.
individually, I dont think as of right now, GC teams have the individual talent of t1/2. In a few years after the scene develops, yes. Right now, no shot.

There are players that shine in t2/3. Hell, it's where Demon1 came from. Just no GC player shines right now. They shine in GC where people start to believe a player is far better than what they are, only to have the C9W situation happen.

With jakee and Runi, they were both demons in tier2 (pre ascension), at the time. Runi on SQ had good runs, and Jakee on nsic had some decent runs, however he shone during the colligate league. Both wernt completely unknown players, they just wernt big names in tier2/3 at the time.
however lets not kid ourselves like there weren't better player that could have been picked up. C9 just didn't have any money, and their risk picking up two players from what became tier3, payed off.
No paid analyst could have forseen what c9 were going to do. However after dropping yay and vanity because they didn't have the funds, their pick ups made far more sense given both were free agents.

You look at this as players due to how they look playing matches. If I'm a tier2 manger/coach and I'll look at individule players, and compare them with their counterparts.

Flourescent (probably the main and only real argument for a player talented enough
You have Neon, govenor, ALEKSANDAR, bdog. All 4 talented players with more experience against top teams, playing in tier3.

My point is that even with equal opportunity with trials, there are far better choices in terms of experience, career height, and success. Than the v1 players.

It's not a stretch to assume some GC players can perform better than the players around them. It is a stretch to say they'll perform better than the top of tier3 (with tier 2 being ascension). If it was one big pool, GC teams(V1), they would still be where they are now. When competing in tier3 events, they're rolled by teams who should be getting slammed.
A few GC players standout compared to the rest. That's for sure. Fluorescent, Sarah, mel, Mimi, Mary. All are phenomenal players. However there are tier 2/3 players who make them look average. tier2 being ascension, they'd toy with them in an official match. that's the sad truth about it.

5 boys vs 5 girls doesn't matter in my point. My point mentions a fully staffed team, losing to a random t3 team.

We have to compare 5 boys vs 5 girls because we can't compare 5 girls vs 5girls. We're talking about how V1/Gc teams can join mixed teams, so we have to use data that we've seen when they're competing with their competition.

tier1 should be out of this discussion overall as a thread. No teams around GC will be near t1 anytime soon.

If we look at tier 2 - ascension
tier 3 - knights monthly, etc.
V1 are an above average team in tier3. They're a fully staffed team, salaried, getting beat by teams with unsalaried players, with maybe an unpaid coach.
The raw skill isn't there for GC. The support and funding is there. The raw skill is what is developing. As that develops, the support staff will grow to be more competent, as the league starts to get taken more seriously.

Mixed rosters will happen in the future. Right now, I can hardly see it unless fluorescent, Mel and Sarah join a mid tier3 team. tier2 right now is out of the question. Top tier3 they'll be competing against players who are honestly better than them right now.

When I mention effys being competant, it's not as opposed to VCT coaches. They're by far a step and ahead of everyone. It's more he was hired to coach a GC team, and he's done a great job at that so far. The results in non Gc events is just a repeat of what happened in C9W. the team steamrolls teams in GC, just to be mediocre against t3 teams.

the main idea behind my point, is everyone arguing about v1 players deserving trials and spots in higher tier teams. Why though? They're struggling in t3 events, against non salaried teams, against players who probably wont ever hit tier1.
At this moment, with the GC scene being underdeveloped, it'll be years until we truely see a player from GC be t1 material. right now the closest we have is Fluorescent, and there's no shot she's getting on a t1 or t2 team anytime soon. There's far too many talented Jett mains in t3 atm.

With V1 having decent staff, they're also a decent team. If we compare support staff with vct, we should compare players aswell. The disparity between both is astronomical. IT's clear as that. However a decorated team, shouldn't be losing to Anima Squad Only.

My main inital point even with support staff, they're a above average team in the t3 scene. They're in a spot they deserve as of now. They're far from being a t2 team, and the top teams in t3 are far superior than them, be it with staff, and players. It's the sad truth. In a few years, we'll see players from GC shining in t2, and hopefully t1.

p.s. if my rambling didn't make sense, my bad. like 4 am here.

The fact she was denied because of her gender is fucked. I just hate how they never say the team who denied them. I'd love to see how a team defends having a garbage human on their team.

Lets also not look past the fact that Runi was on a tear in tier2(before ascension), and tier 3 when on SQ. Jake was hardly a bad player in his own when playing in t2/3. They wernt high profile players, but wernt dogshit. They were just "we cant afford buyout" pickups as c9 had to find players to place vanity and yay with.

Plus the most important reason they got picked up. C9 were broke and couldn't afford any buyouts from any team, so they had to find the most talented tier2/3 players they could, for as cheap as they can. Going from dropping two high profile players, to picking up 2 players nobody would have thought they'd pick up, says it was more money based than anything.

You're missing his point though.

V1 have support staff and experienced players with success behind their name. They're getting rolled by tier3 players nobody has ever heard of.
right now there's a clear disparity in raw skill between random t3 players, and one one of the most supported and developed GC team in the world.

Also you mention a few coaches who weren't proven until earlier this year.
Saying Effys is not a proven coach, isn't really fair on his behalf. He retired from playing, and coached a team into winning the GC split, without dropping a map. So not really fair on his behalf, as imo he's proven himself to be a competent coach. He's just didn't prove himself in tier1 or 2.

I agree with the GC being an underdeveloped aspect of the scene. It's made up of a fraction of a fraction of the playerbase due to decades of esports being male dominated. I dont disagree with that. However, as of right now. The GC players are by far not good enough for t2, let alone t1 teams.

Your analogy I'd agree with, if Alfajer wasn't the hard carry for surreal for so long, and known in EMEA before his pickup by fnatic, for how good of a player he was.

I'd also say your analogy would fit in years to come. I get the idea, but the GC scene is so underdeveloped compared to the generic T3/2 scene, so it's not the leadership that's lacking, it's also the lack of overall skill when compared to the counterparts in T3/2. We're in the really really early years of GC. It's why players like Flourescent can make it in t3/2(potentially), because they're still young, and will grow with the scene. Other players, will most likely never make it into a co-ed team. Be it the sexism, or just not good enough.

It's a shit situation right now for players trying to go co-ed. However it is the sad truth. Players right now in an underdeveloped scene, just aren't better prospects than others. That will change in the future though. We will see co-ed teams one day. Just right now, there's probably a handful of players in the world who can go co-ed and be successful.

The point everyone posting match results is trying to make, is the current GC players outside of probably fluorescent are a few others, are nothing special.

Also why does it matter if they're a 5 female team? They lost to better players in matches, so why would a team look at a losing team for players opposed to teams who won? Why would a t1 or t2 team look at V1, over a team like YFP or Turtle Troop to get players?

Despite V1 being a good team with talented players. There are better players in every role, in t2/3 NA. It's the sad truth. Fluorescent has the highest chances of going to a co-ed team, along with mel as experienced IGLs are always slim. However in the grand scheme of t1/2/3 of val, the v1 team is just another 5 players who are talented, but not the best.

he's by far the best awper to ever come from Asia in CS. He would be the best player to come out of Asian CS, but BnTeT exists.

Crazy how you say Saadhak flash/initiator then just relegate Leo to "import"

As an esports org. G2 and fnatic are probably the most stable right now.
Overall
EDG, Bilibili,and probably T1/DWK. Probably the richest and most stable orgs atm. Asia orgs are just insane with the investment going into the scene in the past 10 years.
Bleed are supposedly up there, but idk much about them.

EDG, T1 and Bilibili are in a world of their own though.

my gut is telling me it'll be xaccurate, but my head reminds me he's an awper.
in before he just does what Nivera did and mainly rifle.

Even if people didn't consider fnatic a superteam before this year, Gambit was considered one in 2021, and FPX was one in 2022.
Original argument was EMEA not having superteams to be successful, when Gambit was one of the earliest teams in val to be considered one.

Yeah, the NA scene will take the hardest hit from CS2.
Emea, I think will sit the same, or t2 might take a hit from people trying to seek success, only to return, or stagnate even worse.

last year - Boaster top5 igl itw, derke top3 duelist itw,.

It's harder for people to rank igls, but boaster has led a team to playoffs consistently for the past 3 years when having his full 5.
Derke was a top3 duellist itw for a consistent 2 years.
Alfajer only really came into proper form this year, but was always considered a star player from his pickup. He just found his stride towards the end of last year.

Thinking Fnatic wernt a superteam given 3 members being in the top5/10 for their role, is insane. Plus when they first picked up Alfajer is when people started talking about them building a superteam. Just when they got Leo and Chronicle, it cemented that their team is a superteam. It's just there's no debate regarding it now.

When cs2 comes out, Val will be the exact same. People who swapped to val from CS, couldn't stay in T2. Only people who'll swap back, are the people who got banned in csgo, and their ban was uplifted.

dw bro, he thinks EMEA never had superteams during the past 3 years, yet forgets what FPX, Gambit, and Fnatic were.

Vandal
-prelude
-prime
-reaver
-ion
-Forsaken

Phantom
-Oni
-Ion
-blast x
-Protocol
-Reaver

Fnatic the main character who turns into the final boss in the sequel.

The navi core will stay together. They're still a great team. Just his point of saying optic disbanded, when that wasn't the fact at all. Yay got bought out to go to c9, and the rest went to NRG because Optic didn't get a franchised spot.
Then bringing in faze and g2 like they wont just pick up another roster when ascension comes back around.
Those orgs wont fully leave the scene. they'll just drop their team during off season because it's bad business to keep salaried players who aren't playing.

yeah, kangkang reminded me of yr1 Jett, which I miss as a viewer.
I am enjoying watching a lot more raze than oping tbh. It's not as flashy, but aim duels with rifles are always satisfying to me.

faze and g2 left the scene so they dont have to pay salaries during off season. Like wym?
If optic or NRG were in t2, they'd do the same. Without an open circuit system, there's no reason to keep a roster if they're not able to attend high profile events.

Foxy9 was mainly a better Jett player than Buzz. for awhile Buzz had consistancy issues on Jett, and was struggling. This is what led to role swaps with buzz going on KJ for a bit, or smokers, etc. That's when they had RB take over the aggressive role for awhile.

I do agree with Buzz's performances not looking spectacular, however it's better to have 5 people being comfortable and playing consistent, than having them all play disorganised.

I love how accurate this is.