People dont understand what Game Changers is for.

#1

Congo1

On the other GC post right now a bunch of guys say things like keep the "fake women" away from the "womens competition". Do you really not get what the comp really is for??? Its literally in the name. Game Changers.

They introduced this to normalize the presence of marginalized groups in gaming (E.g. women, both cis and trans as well as non-binary and so on) and therefore over time raise acceptance of them. That would in turn lead to many more of them to be comfortable in this space and starting gaming.

This is --> E <-- sports. Not Boxing or football. There is literally 0 reason to keep cis and trans women apart. Being taller and stronger doesnt impact anything in the digital world. You're just using this situation to shit on trans women like the bigots you are. Too dumb to realize that your demands make no sense.

And lastly a lot of people dont understand with what words to express the difference between "real" women and "fake" (?) ones. Which is understandable if not done maliciously. It goes like this:

Women (umbrella term)

1.1 Cis-women <-- this js what you call "real"
1.2 Trans-women

#2

dexter000111

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kinda weird that this has to be spelt out for some people 😅

#28

zardinez

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THIS. But also W post for doing just that.

#3

babysasuke

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yes!

#4

Domination

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T4 irrelevant competition 🗿

#5

Congo1

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Are you fucking r-? The tier of the comp doesnt matter. The comp itself matters a lot. You personally have no obligation to be interested and watch but going out of your way to disparage their play is just a dick move.

#6

dexter000111

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cmon meyournightmare it's not about the level of competetion. It's about getting them their representation in the game's community

#18

laurus

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Why should they get representation if they aren't good enough otherwise?

#32

dexter000111

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Bcoz it's not that they don't have the talent to be good it's just that it's a lot harder to go pro for them. They deal with so much shit on a daily basis that you're unable to empathize with. They need a bit of a push or some incentive from the community to make gaming accessible to them and to make it a viable career option for them. If they're able to play pro now (regardless of the level) then the younger generation will surely be good at it.

#66

laurus

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They need a bit of a push or some incentive from the community to make gaming accessible to them and to make it a viable career option for them

Why? Why do they need a push? Why do they need a career in gaming? If they don't want to play and don't feel like playing to become the best of the best against men on equal terms, why do you want to force them to do something which they clearly don't enjoy otherwise?

#69

dexter000111

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No one is forcing them lol. They're people who want to be good but have a harder path going the traditional route so they're given a separate league to play in and develop under

#71

laurus

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have a harder path going the traditional route

Their path would be exactly the same as ours. The whole misogyny issue is definitely overrated and not nearly the main cause for women underperforming in gaming.

#74

dexter000111

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It most definitely is the main reason. You may be living in a sheltered atmosphere where it's not that big of an issue (which is great tbh. You see women and men as equals. That's obviously the end goal) But the rest of the world is not so fortunate

#79

laurus

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It's not lmao
They're not as willing to become great in sports or esports or any competition, that's all. Biological reason. Nothing wrong to acknowledge that men are genetically on average more fierce.

#95

dexter000111

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Don't know how many times I'll have to repeat myself but for the last time. The non-male population in the world is in billions. You can't bring up the "competitive urge of an average woman" and apply it here. Out of billions of people there's bound to be several with that strong competitive urge. We're talking about people who are already willing to be good but don't have the necessary support or resources and those are the people GC is trying to uplift

continue thread →

#143

alyve

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"the whole misogyny issue is definitely overrated" coming from someone who is not a woman

#147

laurus

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It is overrated. In fact, misogyny is widespread only in third world countries. In the West, it's an overblown issue by leftists.

#151

alyve

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source: saw it in a dream

#73

ash_knuckles

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its cause the women who DO enjoy that are being oppressed (overused word I KNOW) by the general gaming community. There ARE female players who want to be exceptional at video games, and creating a safer haven for them to develop is fine and good and ok

#57

ajwinner

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Because they will be good enough if given representation, and there is a large amount of viewership for game changers tournaments.

#60

laurus

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In years, nothing is gonna change. No biological woman will ever appear in tier2 let alone tier1 and manage to stabilize there. You will see it, and someday you will lose this delusion.

#61

dexter000111

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Why do you feel so strongly that no woman can ever be good at video games. Gaming doesn't require any form of specific physical attributes. So if a woman puts in just as much time and effort into it why can't they be just as good if not better

#64

laurus

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Because I have all the logical reasons to feel this way.

Even if there is a genius girl player (it's possible), she would rather stream for easier money and eaiser lifestyle, than actually force herself to work 8 hours per day for years to become equal to the best men in the scene skill wise.

#72

dexter000111

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You're generalising way too much. Every woman is not the same and wouldn't be looking for easy money

#77

laurus

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I'm going from the obvious biological fact that women are much less competitive. Hence streamer option when there's a lot of males ready to be watching you and donating you is an easier choice.

#82

Congo1

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Obvious biological fact you pulled out of your ass. Your baby brain making some biased anecdotal connections is not scientific methodology.

continue thread →

#84

dexter000111

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First of all I'm not sure that's a biological fact. Will have to look into whether there's any conclusive evidence to it

Secondly, you're generalising way too much again. All women are different and several may have a strong competitive urge

continue thread →

#144

dER1593

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dude your life is has to be crazy sad for this to affect you that much.

continue thread →

#9

CorpseParty23

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Common Alliance braodband L

#16

Dokka

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Please shut the fuck up holy shit

#160

WinterZ

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alliance broadband l

#7

Congo1

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Another thing a lot of these losers get wrong is making the baby ass deduction:

Gaming is men only --> must mean all women are genetically inferior at playing VIDEO games

Like how fucking dumb are you. Evertime a girl uses the mic theres a 50%+ chance of getting told to shut the fuck up because youre a woman or the old " Back to the kitchen" Or " Girl in team = lose", "you suck (cuz girl) " etc. Of course people dont wanna play as much if you get treated like this constantly.

Some losers counterpoint here is that "men get shit too, people are toxic to us too!!! ". Like dude, no shit. But noone shits on you BECAUSE YOURE MALE.

--> That means women get: The usual toxicity + EXTRA MISOGINY ON TOP === Much more toxicity than you deflecting losers get.

#10

CuComCuComCu

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Common Congo1 W

#11

Yessirskiiii

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W take

#17

laurus

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Women are not as willing to succeed at videogames or any sports as men. They simply don't like competitive FPS/MOBA, that's all.

Discrimination has nothing to do with it. Trans people face the same discrimination, yet with a smaller playerbase they managed to beat female records in every esport game.

#20

babysasuke

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Women FPS players reading this: 🤯

Your ass really needs to go outside and talk to people (about anything)

#21

laurus

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Of course there are exceptions.

But this doesn't change the general occurence.

#24

babysasuke

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A majority of men dont play FPS (especially tac shooters) or MOBAs either, where is your generalization for that?

You absolutely need to leave your house and meet someone that isnt addicted to video games or chronically online.

#26

laurus

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As far as I can see, you're not capable of having a fruitful conversation about the topic.

All you can do is personally attack anyone with whom you disagree with.

It's not me who has 9400 comments on this website by the way.

#34

babysasuke

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and I'm still more in touch with reality than you, this is a problem (yours)

There's no "fruitiful conversation" to have. You have an idea about how ALL women behave in your head, because you are unable to connect with any of them.

Hence, talk to people, learn to act appropriately. I promise it will improve your life and JUST MAYBE you'll lose your virginity one day 🤞

#37

laurus

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Said the user with almost 10k comments and full time life spending on this website.

I do connect with women, and what I've noticed is they're not on average as competitive in sports and esports. They just don't like it, and you're trying to force them to like something which is not for them.

#48

Yessirskiiii

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Babysasuke owns u lil bro

#49

laurus

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babysasuke has no value outside of this website

#36

ash_knuckles

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https://www.vlr.gg/post/1762940/game-changers-teams
read my comment in this thread

#22

CuComCuComCu

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Women are not as willing to succeed at videogames or any sports as men. They simply don't like competitive FPS/MOBA, that's all.

Source: Voices inside your head

#23

laurus

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Source: an obvious fact that men tend to be more competitive and aggressive than women from the very beginning of their lives

#90

sxfhmilf

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source: androgen and estrogen, social conditioning

#25

Dokka

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If you were getting constantly harassed and discriminated in an environment, you wouldn’t exactly be encouraged to immerse yourself in that environment

It is a discriminatory issue plain and simple and anyone who can’t see that is blind

#56

laurus

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Everyone gets harrassed and discriminated in any game. Men, women, trans, everyone. There are toxic players, and they will always try to put you down. No matter what your gender is.

Are you saying that women are more sensitive, so they lose attention to the game so easily because of hate? Well that's another reason supporting my point.

#67

Dokka

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Like how fucking dumb are you. Evertime a girl uses the mic theres a 50%+ chance of getting told to shut the fuck up because youre a woman or the old " Back to the kitchen" Or " Girl in team = lose", "you suck (cuz girl) " etc. Of course people dont wanna play as much if you get treated like this constantly.

Some losers counterpoint here is that "men get shit too, people are toxic to us too!!! ". Like dude, no shit. But noone shits on you BECAUSE YOURE MALE.

--> That means women get: The usual toxicity + EXTRA MISOGINY ON TOP === Much more toxicity than you deflecting losers get.

#68

laurus

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Evertime a girl uses the mic theres a 50%+ chance of getting told to shut the fuck up because youre a woman or the old " Back to the kitchen" Or " Girl in team = lose", "you suck (cuz girl) " etc

That's a reach. Not nearly 50% chance. In fact, women are more likely to be treated in a favourable way, because their teammates might like them.

Anyway, how many LoL female pros are there? I'm sure you can play LoL without using comms, so team doesn't know you're a woman. So why is there a same situation in LoL, not a single biological woman has ever made it far?

#78

Congo1

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At some point if you enter the high elo/pro scene you have to reveal your identity to some degree. The moment people connect your online name to the female gender you are going to face discrimination. You also cannot express your gender in any way before that (name, skins, champions played, role). Girls often like playing pretty/cute support champs and losers will attack you once they see your op.gg

And therefore you are partially onto something but the conclusion is wrong. There are probably more casually playing women than those in high elo circles. But the reason in once again societal pressure.

#99

laurus

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At some point if you enter the high elo/pro scene you have to reveal your identity to some degree

No, it's definitely possible to grind to higher ranks in LoL without event talking in real life. All you need are pure mechanical skills, and somehow no girl has ever made it far enough.

The moment people connect your online name to the female gender you are going to face discrimination

This is so much overblown issue. Like in vast majority of times I meet girls in games, my random male teammates tend to be nice instead of angry.

But the reason in once again societal pressure.

Someday you will get out of this delusion. Women are born to be usually less competitive. But men are worse in something else. We're not the same.

#103

yaiima0

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ah yes, just because i don't see it in my games it must not happen at all. XD

#104

Congo1

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Your entire "evidence" is nothing but a collection of personal anecdotes.

Tate nuthugger.

#106

laurus

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I don't like Tate at all. It's funny you think anyone who says sexes are biologically different in many aspects is a Tate lover.

#122

ash_knuckles

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multiple women have made to challenger/ are consistently challenger mr laurus.

#123

laurus

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Apparently too few if no girl is playing in LoL tier1/tier2 scene
But there's been instances of trans playing there or in other esports

continue thread →

#110

Ullyr

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you should play with a female friend in any competitive fps and ask your female friend to use mic during game.

#27

mp_

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"Woman are not willing to succeed on video games". The year is 2023 and you gotta read things like that, my eyes are almost bleeding.

#52

laurus

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Yes, they aren't. Women are not nearly as keen on becoming the best of the best in a videogame as men are. They may hit a certain point of progress, and after that vast majority of them will give up and do some other productive things in life.

#42

Congo1

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Trans-women cant really get rid of their masculine voice. Therefore since the trait that would earn them harassment is not visible when playing games they get by better. Also many trans folk grew up with their wrong gender/didnt come out yet so they could get used to the space as kids and teenagers.

Saying women dont like competing is the most loser incel take imaginable. You really snitched on yourself that you never talk to girls that arent your mother.

#47

laurus

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I probably talked to more girls than you. You're someone who denies reality and difference between sexes for the sake of being nice and compassionate.

I'm not hating women by any means. If you see hate anywhere in my messages, it's only your problem.

#53

CuComCuComCu

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Trans-women cant really get rid of their masculine voice

They can actually, which is pretty cool, voice training usually takes a long time(years) but the results are often indistinguishable from cis women after all that

#164

ice3

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,,Women are not as willing to succeed at videogames or any sports are men. They simply dont like playing the game".

What the fuck?????? If that were the case we wouldnt even have a GC circuit. People like juliano, klaudia, Mimi and Petra have played FPS for 10+ years, grinded thousands of hours into the games and you are standing here saying,,they dont like the game". Dude, some of our best players in this scene are women. People like Mary, Mimi, Sonder, Mel, Bob, Flor etc.. could all get a T1 spot without needing to do some big convincing talk, in some way, im almost certain that Flor will get on that stage some day because shes just frying.

,,It has nothing to do with discrimination", yet you clearly discriminate women by saying they cannot grind their way to the top. THEY ABSOLUTELY CAN. You put them at a lower standard just because theyre of another gender. Get some help

Esports is the great equalizer, you dont need a given talent to grind to the top. You need to have a big love for the game and motivation to grind, learn and improve. Mary and Flor grinded their way up the ladder, and i dont mean like they were immortal right from the start, Flor was Iron-Bronze at the start of the game and now shes playing with pro players regularly and has an incredibly high MMR.

And the scene keeps on increasing, we got massive investments from orgs for GC. XSET, Excel, KC, Fokus, Attax, MAD Lions and others have got GC rosters this year. The level gets higher and higher. Until someday you wont be able to see a big difference between a game of FNC vs NAVI and a game between G2 Gozen and NAVI Celestials. Women until today didnt really had a stage and the support they needed to build up a scene, today though that scene is established.

#31

zardinez

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Congo’s reaping in the W’s

#81

Valgod

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There is no voice chat in league of legends, every woman pro is still trash

#88

Congo1

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The ways people find out someones gender differ between the games but the result remains the same. And there are fore more ways to tell besides voice. E.g. name, avatar, whatever cosmetic options there are, champion picks and so on.

#97

Valgod

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Ur just making shit up. I've never seen anyone talk shit about women because of a name, champion pick or cosmetics in 1k games

#8

Congo1

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Notice the very few comments in this thread but all the silent downfrags. You guys are cowards.

#12

Mortadelo

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Remember making this exact same claim when this topic was more up to date during game changers. Many transphobes at the moment and people making the argument like if this was the case of Lia Thomas or something.

#13

makewar

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W.

but you are expecting empathy from people who can't put themselves on another shoes. they are blind and uncapable (or unwilling) to see under a different point of view

#14

ash_knuckles

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im afraid your grammar is far too elaborate for the low iq demo you're trying to reach.

#15

NotYourAverageBrazilan

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1-Aint watching that shit anyway
2-Girl Kisser would won if they compete
Not everyone agree with the way it mix all those kind of people , therefore the hate , give up on them and follow your life

#19

CalculadoraMistica

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bob

#29

blazennn

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People will forever be against it since it’s not “normal”.

My only question is where do Non-Binary people fit into this, as we have seen players fake this while not everyone is it’s really hard to determine.

#39

Mortadelo

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I think the root of the problem is to call Game changers a circuit for women. It should just be a circuit te get discriminated minorities in general to have a safe environment to grow

#41

blazennn

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I just think boundaries and guidelines need better developed. Everyone should have the right to grow in a safe and friendly environment, but they shouldn’t have to deal with others faking this just to play in their league.

#126

Mortadelo

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Then wtf is Riot supposed to do? Psychological tests? If their countries say they are legally women who is Riot to say they’re faking it?
And don’t say the solution is to create a different league because that does not make sense, you would have the same problem

#30

sxfhmilf

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There is a thing with women having a slower mean reaction time/worse visuospatial ability (which is why the stereotype of being bad drivers has some basis) but better verbal fluency and memory than men, obviously that difference is marginal and incomparable to physical differences that people fall back on to argue against trans being in womens competitions
I agree with the ethos of your post though and dont see why people need to put other genders down, maybe insecurity

#33

zardinez

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That is frankly an insignificant difference. The only reason there’s more men in tier 1 competition is the fact that there’s a lot more men playing overall. It’s a function of statistics, not biology.

#40

blazennn

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then why hasn’t at least one female broke out into the T1 scene?
Or even the T2 scene?

It’s pretty stupid to ignore the difference between games when you can see it just watching them play. GC struggle to beat no name teams and if they were growing ofc the dynamic would switch and we might see a team competing at the top level but even then I don’t see it.

#43

ash_knuckles

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sarah, noia, meL(as player NOT as igl) are all good enough as individuals to be t2.i've been watching tarik 10s (ik 10s<<<<<<< a real match but still give us a rough estimate of how they would perform against real players) and noia has been very good in them.
As for why their teams haven't performed, its could be anything from personality clashes to role conflicts to meL simply just being a bad IGL and them getting outplayed as a collective.

#50

blazennn

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Yes you might find a couple players who COULD excel in the T2 scene but we can’t really say that for sure as we’ve seen them fall to T2 teams before as well.

The argument here is if they had more players they could compete at the T1 level which is ridiculous, I know their are a few players who could definitely move to T2 or T1 but not a whole GC roster

#62

ash_knuckles

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ye atm i'd have to agree too. in the future perhaps tho, perhaps.

#63

blazennn

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If the scene grows anything is possible i’d just be excited to see flor get picked up by a contending challenger team 👀

#111

Ullyr

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its simply cause talent pool, more women have to get comfortable with pursuing pro gaming as an actual career. Some of them have talents just so underdeveloped. And the pro women in the scene currently may just lack so much experience.

#51

Congo1

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Why reply when you didnt even read his comment? There are FAR more men playing video games. Therefore men dominating pro play is simple statistics.
Men can choose from the 0.01% of their group while women have to water their pool down significantly and having to choose from their top 1%. Obviously if you can be faaar more picky you pick better fruits.

If gaming was more welcoming and the female playerbase was equal in size we'd be much closer to a 50/50 split than we are currently.

#59

blazennn

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I still don’t think we would be closer to a 50/50 split as you make it out to be.

And again as I said ofc they would have a better scene with more players that’s common sense but to argue they would be better than the male scene collectively is ridiculous. As I said individual players are different and can push into the T1 to T2 scene but regardless even if the demand for female gamers was higher I don’t see them (as a team) pushing past or to the level of the male scene, just look at the WNBA for a example :)

#75

sxfhmilf

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bro WNBA is physical limitation
esports is more cultural
taking the current state of gender in esports at face value, the simplest rationale to arrive at is that men dominate esports because they're better
it takes more awareness to consider conditioning from the start making it unsuitable for women to start and continue gaming (marketing/social expectations and then harassment) really can affect the probability of a woman going pro and you never really refuted that. it's a case of there being too little a sample size to sum it up as "women are naturally worse at esports"
even if there is a biological difference i think it would be a learned/epigenetic one

#100

Congo1

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They would not be better than the male scene. There wouldnt be gendered scenes at all anymore. We are probably 100s of years away from 50/50 parity. But 20,30,40% could eventually be achieved.

#116

laurus

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Chess exists for hundreds of years yet there's 98% / 2%

In esports it's not even 99% / 1% so far, as no woman plays among men

#135

zardinez

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I hard agree. Good take.

#65

sxfhmilf

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I mean there's Goddess in R6 Siege and Florescent would fare well in T1. Maybe there's an argument against women-only competitions because they hold women to a lower standard and disincentivize improving over a certain skill ceiling, but that sounds like cope already

#76

laurus

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florescent is trans or nonbinary, no idea which one.

#44

laurus

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Really?

How many women play chess? I presume quite a lot. Around 15%.
How many of grandmasters are women? 2%.

By your logic, there would be 15% female grandmasters of all grandmasters. But it's clearly not the case.

Or are women also being so much harrassed in chess, to the point where they can't perform to their fullest? I suggest you better stop coping.

#54

Congo1

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Everybody who actually knows about chess knows how full of shit you are. Every top pro knows of the elitism of players and their highly condescending view of women.

The belief women are mentally inferior is very common here. Also backlash due to " the role of women not being competing" but the usual female gender role shit.

#58

laurus

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Keep going dude, it's only the misogyny, it's never the biology and the fact that men are usually born to be more competitive and immune to competitive environments

#87

sxfhmilf

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maybe testosterone vs estrogen competitive drive/will to succeed pleiotropy. men may be more motivated competitors in general with respect to social challenge

#91

laurus

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Exactly. Not just social challenge though.

#98

sxfhmilf

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it's funny people downfrag this when hormonal correlation to competitiveness is well established in literature

there's a difference between taking a holistic stance to social issues and cherry-picking arguments ignoring science as you see fit

people need to learn to respond to the content of an argument not let their immediate emotional reaction decide in place of their reasoning

#55

ash_knuckles

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first off the misogyny is chess is WAYYY more than in esports lol
secondly i agree with your take that the avg. woman are simply just less competitive (you have age-old social contructs to blame for that) , and that is the cogent reason why we will most likely never see a full 50/50 population split of the 1% any time soon.
The only take i object to in this entire arg is people saying it is simply impossible for women to reach that 1%, which is fucking dumb.

#35

zardinez

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Massive Congo1 W. Good user, good take.

#38

sp0rtsman

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I aint readin allat

#45

raynexo

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can u define what a women is?

#83

rishu004

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yes. ur mom explained it to me last night while getting down on me. but i couldn't understand what she said with so much stuff in her mouth. i will ask her again tonight.

#120

brobeans

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that’s gotta be the worst execution of that joke

#141

rishu004

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ohh sorry, are u both siblings?

#145

brobeans

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better but after the first one the joke fell off

#70

Valgod

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Explain how every transgender is farming in gc

#80

ash_knuckles

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there are good trans players, and there are bad ones. annieDro was mid, katie had played cs before on semi-pro teams (still does), bob had competed on an arguably t1 team at one point, and flor is just a good player idk. people trying to taking away from their skill by saying "gender diff" is weird.
There are a lot of bad trans players in the scene.

#86

rishu004

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arguably biological males have a faster reaction rate acc. to some studies. but i find it hard to believe that reaction rates alone define the ceiling of a player. thats why i find the trans and cis women debate in gaming a little fruitless.

#92

ash_knuckles

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i had an entire thread explaining this but mods kinda deleted it, but basically ye, even the reaction time diff matters WAY less than most people think it does.

#112

laurus

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Trans have significantly smaller playerbase yet achieved more in esports than "cis". Why is that? There's a very obvious explanation. But no, biology can't be the reason, how dare me.

#113

rishu004

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i would attribute that to their early life socialisation. i believe boys are more exposed to gaming in their early life and hence trans women have a slight leg up in gaming

#115

laurus

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Or maybe it's the fact that boys are genetically more willing to compete from the very young age than girls? No, how dare me suggest something like this.

#142

rishu004

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sure u can suggest that. how would u go on to prove that? cuz everything i am claiming has a sound reasoning. but u r waving ur hands in a void, hoping to catch something

#148

laurus

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Prove what? Obvious things?

#114

Congo1

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Having male voice/ being male passing.
Also growing up as male before coming out and getting used to the space by then.

#93

CuComCuComCu

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annieDro was mid

The meme that Annie Dro proved that trans women aren't inherently better than cis women is real lmao

#108

ash_knuckles

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kp.....rayse...tbh i rarely bring it up cause i dont really like shitting on these players to prove a point which is kinda in support of them, but it is kinda evidence tbh.

#85

Daniveus

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no wonder IQ is dropping in developed countries lmao

#109

team_liquid_fan_v2

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no politics bro

#117

team_liquid_fan_v2

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why is this getting downvoted, how the hell isnt this thread bannable??

#137

basho

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Simple. Explaining the purpose of a Valorant league, and extending that logic to counter dogmatic takes that explicitly reject and ignore the stated purpose of that Valorant league, is actually not at all a political statement. If you are operating in good faith, this explanation will make inherent sense to you. If you are working in bad faith, nothing I say here matters because you have convinced yourself that addressing specific forms of systemic and legacy stereotyping is inherently political, either because you disagree or they make you uncomfortable. In either case, your take actually doesn't matter, because enough people here speak in good faith that they can drown out your deliberately reductive and misattribution-based logic. Perhaps look at the group consensus that this is something valuable to discuss, regardless of where people fall on the issue, realize the flaw in your thinking, and reconsider what you define as political. Alternatively, go find other forums where this thinking is commonly accepted - there are many of them - and you can get those sweet, sweet upvotes there. Have a good afternoon.

#118

mesayaloneramp

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idc

#119

Ic4rusYam1

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A woman without a penis is like an angel without wings.

#133

JokesOver

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lmfao what

#121

brobeans

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GC is a money pit that gives out participation trophies. But I respect those abusing their lax rules to steal a paycheck. Gotta get ur bag

#130

tuxe

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W post

#138

espeon

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man reading some of these comments has my face turning all sorts of sideways, w post

#139

Raftlot

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Massive W

#140

Gutwi

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Uneducated valorant basement dwellers keep coping, there’s a reason why men are mostly the best in everything

#149

deathlyclaws

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W post

#152

Calangod

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trans men should be added too, since they are more women than trans women, and also a marginalized group.

#158

Subreezy

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"trans men are more women than trans women"

i don't think you understand what the word trans means

they want to be LESS like women hence why they are trans

#163

Calangod

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It's not like I lied or said a false statement, but I was just tryna find inclusion to that group of ppl, since they have no representation in valorant.
And considering the success of trans men in sports, which is none, because of physical disadvantages, they'll find a hard time getting representation. Game changers is the perfect spot for that, and nowhere in the name says "game changers for women"

#153

Chromantix

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extraordinarily W post, happy to see it received mostly positively here, happy VLR is accepting in this regard <33

#154

Congo1

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Well its been a fight tbh.

#155

luckypleb

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iron players need some representations too

#159

Subreezy

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yeah you guys get your own rank to play in

#161

Subreezy

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probably the most based thread i've seen this year, i couldn't said it better myself.

i fucking hate when people shit on the idea of game changers since their words aren't real critiques, they just want a reason to shit on women and trans people. this feels eerily similar to how boomers try to talk about transgender people in women's sports and say it's unfair when in actuality they don't care about women's sports, they just hate transgender people.

i loved the idea of game changers when it was announced and it's cool to see how it's grown over the past 2 years. so many of my friends have told me that they probably would've quit valorant if game changers didn't exist, since the harassment they receive daily is sometimes too much to handle. half the time i play valorant i'm smurfing in their elo just so they have someone to shut up the sexist pricks in their comp games. seeing people on VLR minimize these issues like they're a primary source is just sad.

men have no clue what women and other marginalized groups go through on a daily basis, let alone in a fucking game of valorant, so we have no right to say what is or isn't best for them. the most we can do is uplift our friends and educate other men on the importance of game changers and gender inclusive things like this. we can empathize, but we'll never receive the specific harassment they receive. thank you for making this thread and help educate a bunch of users here.

#162

Carthage_Er_Pola

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W post

#165

Congo1

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I am necroing this because it is necessary i dont care...

#167

rumbledink

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W