less vs alfajer debate

#1

alienista1

ive seen a lot of people saying there is no debate between less and alfajer, that alfajer is way better etc
that usually comes from people who started watching valorant recently

im going year by year to show the debate is completely valid

start of 2022 → less
masters finalist with great individual performance
alfajer wasnt even on fnatic yet

mid 2022 → alfajer
joins fnatic and already has a strong impact
less has a more average stretch

end of 2022 → less
champions winner with an insane performance
alfajer was good but not on the same level

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start of 2023 → less
even in a loss, he was individually better than alfajer at lock in

mid 2023 → alfajer
absolute peak
tokyo mvp one of the highest peaks ever

end of 2023 → less
had the better performance at champions

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start of 2024 → less
insane level at kickoff and masters

mid 2024 → alfajer
good regionally, mid internationally
less was good regionally but didnt qualify

end of 2024 → alfajer
good both regionally and internationally

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start of 2025 → less
good regional, mid international
alfajer was good regionally but didnt qualify internationally

mid/end of 2025 → alfajer
maintains a high level

overall score: 6-6

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saying alfajer is better is fair
it comes down to criteria

but acting like there is no debate between less and alfajer is just ignorance

#2

emmanuel374631_

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fair

#3

LocoMonteiro

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some advice, next time change your flag so people actually have to read it to know you are biased

#5

FNS_KITTEN

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LMFAO

#83

Big_Potato

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😭😭😭😭

#4

FNS_KITTEN

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less prime was higher then alfajer prime, alfajer overall way better

does that make sense?

#7

alienista1

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saying alfajer was better overall depends entirely on your criteria. ive always seen him as way more inconsistent than less but some people will disagree and thats fine

#8

FNS_KITTEN

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way more inconsistent than less

less was mid for 2 years, ever since loud disband imo

but he is looking good again on KRU, glad saadhak got his boy back

#81

CaxTonYT

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LMFAOOO I can't take u seriously now. What did less do last two years?? Wasn't even putting up good stats

#6

HIMNIJ

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half of these your basing of placement and the other half of individual level to fit your criteria, alfa was higher rated at 2023 champs and 2025 kickoff, if your giving less lockin cause of individual level then alfa gets champs and 2025 kickoff

#14

alienista1

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the main criteria for all of this was individual performance. saying alfajer had a better individual performance at champions 23 just because of rating shows you didnt watch the event and are only looking at vlr stats. he faced weaker teams, played half the rounds, and on top of that lost twice to less

im not even going to address your 2025 argument. you seem to have forgotten that vitality won kickoff and got top 4 at masters

#26

HIMNIJ

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so your criteria is individual performance but then your argument for 2025 is the performance of the team and placement?

#43

alienista1

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i literally used the same argument to give mid 2024 to alfajer

#27

HIMNIJ

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also why are you counting start of 2022 when alfa wasnt playing but not giving alfa start of 2026 when less wasnt playing

#42

alienista1

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because the year isnt over and the start of 2026 is irrelevant to the debate. if alfajer had made a masters final i would consider giving it to him

#45

HIMNIJ

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the start of the year is literally in the other fucking years you moron, you cant say the start of 2026 doesnt count when FOUR of less's "wins" are the starts of years

#52

alienista1

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the amount of false equivalences youre using is insane. if alfajer had managed a top 4 at masters like less did in every start of year stretch he won, id consider adding 2026. as it stands its completely irrelevant to the debate

#59

LocoMonteiro

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in an attempt to glaze less you highlighted how much better alfa is.....you moved the goal post and made the rules in a way that would completely favor less and it still ended 6-6....nice job

#63

alienista1

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when did i do that?

#72

LocoMonteiro

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when you included start of year every year except 2026? when you used event placing for the events where less finished higher and rating for the years where less did fuck all internationally and just stayed at home farming cloud9 and furia?

#73

foythvlr

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2026 is irrelevant since regional stats can't be properly measured without any of them going to any international and less didn't even play bro

for the years where less did fuck all internationally and just stayed at home farming cloud9 and furia?

less was top 4 itw every year he played on T1

#76

alienista1

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i’ll repeat it, i didnt include the start of 2026 because its irrelevant to the debate so i used the “the year isn’t over yet” argument to leave it out. if alfajer had gotten a top 4 at masters i would include it

when did i do that? which period did he win just by farming c9 and furia?

#46

HIMNIJ

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if the start of 2026 doesnt count neither does the start of 2022, 2023, 2024 or 2025, in which case its 6-2 to alfa lmao

#54

alienista1

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youre delusional bro get help

#78

HIMNIJ

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its crazy cause i dont even dislike less or think hes not in the argument i just think your attempt at proving it is fucking stupid and the most obviously biased shit ever

#22

foythvlr

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alfa run at champs 23: zeta -> bilibili -> LOUD -> DRX -> LOUD
less run at champs 23: DRX -> NAVI -> TL -> FNC -> PRX -> EDG -> FNC -> EG

be for real

#9

glittering_yard

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People trying to force Less down in the debate because of 2025

But they just choose to forget about Alfajer 2022 and 2024

#12

mondely

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last i checked alfajer in 2024 qualified to 2 events

#19

glittering_yard

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Thats team performance, not individual performance

#32

mondely

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his individual performance was still better than less.

#34

glittering_yard

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statistically not true, and he was playing in a better team

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#38

mondely

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ahh yes statistically not true cuz less got to play only emea teams while alfajer had to play the best intl teams

#44

glittering_yard

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less got to play only emea teams

Less was not playing in EMEA in 2024, what are you talking about?

And Less got a Top 4 finish at Masters Madrid, being the #2 highest rated player of the event

#47

mondely

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im comparing 2025 less and 2024 alfajer

#49

foythvlr

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less still got a top 4 itw in 2025 too lol

#51

mondely

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mickey 8 team masters

continue thread →

#13

LocoMonteiro

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brazilian flag have an unbiased take LEVEL IMPOSSIBLE
alfajer 2024 is literally better than Less 2024

#25

glittering_yard

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Less in 2024: 1.13 (Top 10 tied with zekken), #1 LOUD player in the team's downfall

Alfajer in 2024 : 1.10, #3 FNATIC player behind Chronicle and Leo

#35

LocoMonteiro

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posting full year stats is hilarious.... Less played 250 rounds of international tournament and the rest was farming the weakest year of americas in franchising history, alfajer played close to 500 so ill take the 0.03 difference and the champions playoffs

#41

glittering_yard

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Champions playoffs with 1.09 rating getting carried by Derke 1.22 and Chronicle 1.21?

Less didnt have that on his dying team and still put up better numbers than Alfajer

#48

LocoMonteiro

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how are you gonna diss a 1.09 when your boy didnt even make it to china? and its not like he lost to world beaters in america.... fucking kru made it and not loud

#53

glittering_yard

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Its a 5v5 game, Less would need to average 1.50 rating on sentinel to carry that LOUD team. And he still did it fairly well in the first split. He was by far their best player and put up world class numbers all year

Alfajer was not even the #2 guy in his own team

#57

LocoMonteiro

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https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/2095/champions-tour-2024-americas-stage-2
he didnt need a 1.50, outperforming cauanzin and a washed pancada would have sufficed

#60

glittering_yard

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it wouldnt

LOUD had saadhak playing Neon in Stage 2, that team died in Stage 1 after the VISA incident

#65

LocoMonteiro

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well since we are doing hypotheticals, alfajer would have been champions winner and mvp if he didnt move to initiator to accomodate a sub

continue thread →

#18

uwukitten

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wow, you're telling me people are rating alfa higher because of the year he played like jesus and placed second at masters and champs? why would they do that?

#20

glittering_yard

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only Masters, he got diffed by skuba

#24

uwukitten

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alfa was getting diffed in champs grand finals while less was getting diffed in emea regionals

#30

glittering_yard

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Less was playing with random shitality industry plants after the team imploded post-kickoff

When Vitality was normal, Less WON EMEA Kickoff being the GF MVP, even in their H2H Less still was the better sentinel

And i'll not even bring all of their H2H cuz we all know who is the better sentinel in the server every time this matchup happened

#37

uwukitten

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derke > aspas

if derke wasn't stuck with shitality he would be clearing aspas

this is how stupid your argument sounds. it doesn't matter what team less was on when alfa's achivements are so clear of him, alfa has been at the top for longer so he's the better player until less proves otherwise

#50

glittering_yard

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His achievements are Lockin and Masters Tokyo

Less won Champions

How is that being "so clear of him" ? Less also eliminated Alfajer from Champions, the World Championship of the game

#56

uwukitten

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leave it to Brazilians to act like champions is worth 10 masters because it's the only trophy they've won 😭💔 there is no argument to be had, the accolades are clear and less has never had a performance as good as alfa in toronto. one day you'll be able to see past your bias

#61

foythvlr

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less has never had a performance as good as alfa in toronto

You mean a 1.17? like this?
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1015/valorant-champions-2022
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1188/champions-tour-2023-lock-in-s-o-paulo?exclude=&min_rounds=100&agent=all
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1657/valorant-champions-2023
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1921/champions-tour-2024-masters-madrid

or a 90+ kills bo5? like this?
https://www.vlr.gg/167393/loud-vs-fnatic-champions-tour-2023-lock-in-s-o-paulo-gf
https://www.vlr.gg/248283/evil-geniuses-vs-loud-valorant-champions-2023-playoffs-lbf

#80

uwukitten

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anyone who watched the games of the tournaments you listed will tell you alfa's Toronto was better. I don't care about the stats. I do think if we're talking about individual games then less probably has had higher peaks

also compare alfa's competition in toronto with some of the garbage teams less was playing against. oh right, bringing up 90 kills in a bo5 is shameless when alfa had more kills over 4 maps, then again it's a useless stat and kpr matters way more anyway

#67

glittering_yard

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Every game has the World Championship of it. Just because you want Masters to be equal to Champions, it doesnt mean it is, at least thats not whats officially supported by Riot. The biggest trophy is objectively more valuable

Alfajer does not have 10 Masters, he has 1 and the lockin tournament. Less won Champions

#10

dimmed

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Always so interesting seeing people try to debate who the 2nd best sentinel oat is.

#11

catNmouse

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It’s clearly meteor

#16

dimmed

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He's in the debate for 2nd but falls short of 1st.

#15

n1cf

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Alfajer's International Grand Final appeareances: 5
Less' International Grand Final appearances: 3 (Lost one to Alfajer)

Also you really picked Less over Alfa for early 2025 while Alfa is literally above him on stats LMAO
If you care qualing to Masters was more valuable for Less, then Alfajer > Less for early 2023 by your logic. He won a trophy vs him. Also saying Less had better performance than Alfa in Champs 2023 is legit retarded, Alfa was literally top3 in stats

Very very very weak bait, try to think over your baits next time

#29

alienista1

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#14

#33

n1cf

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You've literally just agreed to what i said lmao. even you don't know what you are talking about

#58

alienista1

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could you elaborate?

#17

foythvlr

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this is a new gen test. people who say theres no comparison simply do not know how big of a debate this was until late 24. saying one or other is better is okay. saying the debate doesn't exist? you just don't know ball

#23

LocoMonteiro

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thats the point.....it was close in early 24 but Alfajer was completely superior in the following 2 years up until now

#31

foythvlr

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not really since alfajer 24 was inconsistent both individually and results-wise (like less although better) and his 25 compensates for less 22. this is just recency bias

#36

HIMNIJ

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less's 22 only counts for half cause alfa wasnt playing then, if we count the first half of 22 you have to count the first half of 26 when less wasnt playing

#40

foythvlr

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alfa was playing in 22, he just didn't qualify to anything before fnatic
hell alfajer was playing in 21 lol
https://www.vlr.gg/player/matches/9810/alfajer/?page=4

#21

Wolfed

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bro did start/mid/end for every year except 2025 just to fit his agenda😭😭 shameless

#28

I_LOVE_LESS

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im not even going to waste my time arguing with people about this because Less is going to win masters and champs this year then there will be no debate

#39

themaniel

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I think alfajer is currently better all time but I don't think it's a huge gap

If less wins another trophy with a good performance I'd consider them neck and neck

possibly ahead of Alfa but we'd have to see what he gets up to

#79

Opleism

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Brazilians just coping as always. All time Alfa hard clears. 2023 was Alfajer's year. Less wasn't even close to him. And I wonder what Brazilians would say if Alfa disappeared for 2 fucking years lol

#82

FNSaimcoach9

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yea ur definitely NOT biased

#84

Ieygdeiifswgkovx

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It’s obvious that Alfa is better. Team liquid Literally avoided an entire site, because Alfa was holding it. They had to 4v1 him every time to win the game

#85

pztzy

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0m0r0c0s and 0m00s just talking shi while another region gets the trophy lmaooo