Why Sen Failed (yap sesh)

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#1
c4rrotstix
22
Frags
+

If you didn't see the loss coming I think you're delusional.

After the NRG loss, I genuinely thought this team was done. No amount of Kaplan magic or zekken 1v5s can save a team when they are just not on the level of other teams overall. Whether it be due to lacking form in individuals, or teamplay cohesion, or a lack of strategic depth when Kaplan isn't spoonfeeding them the answers in timeouts, this team just wasn't on the level of everyone around them when it mattered. NRG is not a bad team by any means, and they showed it by their 2-0 run and incredible mental fortitude, but the difference in raw gunplay between the two is not all that incredible. Zekken is even or slightly better than Mada, and they are both 2 of the best duelists in the world, narrate should be better than brawk, zellsis is worse than ethan, bang should be a bit worse than s0m, and johnqt is a bit worse than skuba. These aim diffs are not that significant, and should lead to Sen winning matches against them or at least bringing it very very close. However, when it mattered against NRG or G2, they weren't able to do that, regardless of what reason they give.

Sen, for the entire year has not actually played against real competition, and when they have, they crumple. When the game matters, and their life is on the line, the old sen stepped up to the plate to face the challenge because they had players like Sacy, Tenz, and Zekken all there, and Zellsis and John stepped up and were elevated in igling and calling with them. This year, and I say this as someone who has been cheering for Bang since 2022 100T, so a while now, Bang and narrate are just not those guys. I wanted to see if I was just blinded from this match, so I went to see all of Bang's elimination games from tourneys (or grand finals) and find his vlr rating for them. Disregarding Shanghai (no vlr rating, so I couldn't include it but if you go back his stats are horrifying), whenever the tournament life is on the line, Bang just does not perform. Whether this be to stress, or some aspect inside or outside of the game, Bang in 9 series since 2022 is at a 0.89 VLR rating averaged on matches that determine whether you stay in a tournament or not. N4rrate, as much as the community (and I) give him praise, was completely offline today. Especially in games in which Sen can't just aim diff their opponents, n4rrate goes from a god to having 1 good map and falling off the face of the earth. I don't know why this is the case. I genuinely can't point to anything but a mental block because the drop in quality of play from abyss to the other 2 maps was insane. Even on Abyss, they were doing the classic "lets see if zekken can dash into a site alone while we watch him and don't follow up", but it was working because of n4rrate firing in the mid-late rounds. I don't know what it is, but I think this map 1 drop off again has to point to a mental thing, because there's no way his hands just magically became cold from map 1-2/3.

I also want to point at the way this team is built, specifically pointing out how they use zekken, and the team that's built around them. I have absolutely 0 qualms with Zekken entrying, and obviously as a jett/raze/neon you should be doing that. My problem comes with how uncoordinated, or disgustingly bait-y the rest of the team plays around the man who is literally their star. This IS their aspas and their mada and their kk, and whenever I watch a Sen attack side I am constantly throwing my hands up watching Zekken go in with the team's util, and then get shot in the back of the head or some angle that isn't cleared because his team just straight up doesn't take space with him.

This is one thing that I thought Sen 2024 did INCREDIBLY well compared to Sen 2025. The classic Tekken duo of Tenz tping in or flashing in on Kayo with the zekken entry on raze or jett or neon lead to them both covering each others backs, and being able to make trades to leave one of their win conditions alive for the postplant, as well as take space and make really good trades to win sites. Alongside them, they also had Sacy, someone who was very intelligent with his peeks and positioning, and walked in at the perfect moments with his 2 entries to take timings and confirm the space that got created. On this team, just watch the way they used Zekken on abyss attack. I felt like banging my head against a wall with the amount of times I'd see Zekken dash in into a smoke, with a recon that gets shot, and bang and narrate would both be sitting behind a smoke just waiting for zekken to die before doing anything, and often just letting zekken give his life for nothing. Whether it's miscommunication, or some other issue entirely, this is a consistent thing that I noticed throughout all of Sen 2025, and I got mad about it every time, thinking: "How are we letting the best player on our team go in, get so much space for us, and give it back up because we don't want to walk up?".

Now, getting into how this team is built at its core. When watching Sen 2024, we were gifted, and obviously didn't realize how much Tenz and Sacy did for the team, but one of the biggest pieces here of why their team worked was because of how the burden of kills/deaths were put onto each of their players. I took a look at the Kills/Death percentages to try to see some insight into how that team functioned versus this new version of Sen, as I think we can all agree that they're trying to replicate the formula but something isn't clicking.
In their madrid run, the K/D breakdown was as follows:
Zekken: 381 - 25.4% / 314 - 21.86%
Tenz: 314 - 20.9% / 300 - 20.89%
JohnQT: 293 - 19.5% / 251 - 17.47%
Zellsis: 263 - 17.5% / 282 - 19.6%
Sacy: 249 - 16.6% / 289 - 20.1%

At champs, the K/D breakdown was as follows:
Zekken: 323 - 25.84% / 275 - 22.5%
Tenz: 271 - 21.68% / 251 - 20.5%
Sacy: 222 - 17.76% / 247 - 20.23%
Zellsis: 220 - 17.6% / 236 - 19.3%
JohnQT: 214 - 17.12% / 212 - 17.3%

I think you can absolutely see the difference in form in John being one of the many reasons why they won Madrid but weren't able to bring home the Champs trophy, but another thing to note is how many kills Zekken is getting, with Tenz being there to clean up and go in with him and the other 3 playing to support the 2 going in. John clearly has a lot less deaths due to the fact that he is playing as a senti-clutch player, playing to get space around the map and playing for the clutch. Alongside this, Madrid JohnQT was a demon, and he did fall off a bit in form into champs which could be why their style didn't work as well. Now, let's compare this with Sen 2025.
I'm not going to be counting Bangkok or Toronto because the way their team played with the tejo/john init was completely different than how they play now.

Champs K/D percentage:
Zekken: 94 - 23.9% / 100 - 22.77%
JohnQT: 85 - 21.6% / 75 - 17.0%
n4rrate: 79 - 20.1% / 91 - 20.72%
Zellsis: 68 - 17.3% / 88 - 20%
Bang: 67 - 17.0% / 85 - 19.36%

Americas K/D percentage (when Kaplan said they could win champs in this form):
Zekken: 355 - 23.15% / 300 - 22.17%
n4rrate: 332 - 21.66% / 283 - 20.92%
Bang: 289 - 18.85% / 265 - 19.59%
Zellsis: 281 - 18.33% / 271 - 20.03%
JohnQT: 276 - 18% / 234 - 17.29%

When Sen was successful, Zekken was dying less because he wasn't having to solo entry every single round, and because of that was able to frag a lot higher. 23%s vs 25% of kills, and the death % being increased by even a few percentage points is exactly due to how Sen has built their attack sides. I also want to point out that Bang/n4rrate were brought in to fix the hole by Sacy's comms with just fragging, but something is missing there from Bang, where he just is not putting up numbers, especially at champs where he just had an absolutely horrific tournament. I don't know what the fix here is, but maybe a mental coach could help. Or just sign Cryo from 100T because he been the truth :P

#2
MrHyphon
7
Frags
+

I completely agree with paragraph 2 and 3, 2024 Sen was so much more successful because they were always so hungry to take fights mid round

#3
xineFso
12
Frags
+

Tldr ; B0ng

#4
aexberry
-4
Frags
+

allat

#5
Marii
-3
Frags
+

So bang didn’t frag nearly as much as TenZ

#7
c4rrotstix
4
Frags
+

narrate picked up the fragging there tho, its not about just the loss of fragging

theres the experience that sacy had that both narrate and bang lack and then bang wasn't able to frag up to what he needed to make up that difference. basically team looks worse strat wise because of course but then bang just doesnt do enough

#34
deflinger
1
Frags
+

The unfortunate thing is, Narrate hasn't been consistent on his impact frags compared to Tenz

#6
kfan4238173
5
Frags
+

ill read this on thursday

#8
AapKon
-15
Frags
+

Ch0tGPT

#9
KGad03
22
Frags
+

Anybody with eyes can see the language is so blatantly human written

#10
c4rrotstix
15
Frags
+

media literacy is dead

#11
MrBlooBloom
7
Frags
+

One thing that I think most people (including me) would find impressive on SEN last year was their ability to take big teamfights during the round and consistently come out on top, mostly due to great synergy (tekken + john + supportive util) as well as, obviously, great firepower overall and most importantly a clear direction to follow as a team.
I din't really realize it before reading your post but I really believe that this year's SEN did not rely on teamfigths AT ALL. They feel way more like headless chickens than they used to be; if the pre round call doesn't work out they will consistently have trouble figuring out a solution in terms of their midrounding, which is precisely one of the differences between them and really good teams; G2 have insane midround calls, PRX always have a clear plan at every moment in the round, fnatic have a phenomenal ability to adapt on the fly (sometimes a bit too much) etc... This issue with the midrounding was also a thing to some extent last year, but mostly when they were struggling regionally halfway through the season, and when (imo) sacy was having some troubles in game.
We obv don't have their comms and I don't wanna be disrespectful to Zellsis and john just for the sake of it but now the midrounding is almost nonexistent. I remember, especially towards their champs run last year, how they were able to creat clear plans on the fly on what they needed to do to get out of tough situations, which generally implied that one player or more would need to step up in gun figthts and space taking (thus their ability to be so good at team fighting).
The bang and tenz comparison is also a good point, but one that had been made earlier in the season and that should have been adressed before by the team. Bang is way too passive on T sides and would rather spend 3 seconds lining up the perfect omen flash rather than throwing it on the fly and tp-ing in to follow zekken ( this was esoecially shocking when zekken was on neon earlier this year). I understand that everyone has his tricks and playstyle differences, but this kind of issue not being addressed at all during the year has been a problem. Bang would be much better on a team with better midround that does less raw execs (typically like fnatic or g2), because his pathings and timings wouldn't really be a problem, as his duelist would not need to hard entry consistently thus needing his physicall support rather than just a bit of util.
I also think that the n4rrate "issue" isn't that big of a problem, at least it isn't one as of right now. What they need first is to find a clear identity, roles, players and a way to play the game that fits them. N4rrate is an aggressive player but he is very smart and I don't see his aggressivity being a problem if the team didn't have the issues I talked abt before. He is also still young and has time to devellop, and I would gladly give him that time considering how cracked he is. As for his mental issues and everything, I don't think that is really a problem anymore, thought I would say that the vibes on the team feel weird.
From my point of view (and I insist on "my" bc that is very personal) Zellsis' vibes feel too much like the vibes of a "cool dad". Last year sen felt like a brotherhood more so than a regular familly, and I also think that the current vibes don't fit either of n4rrate and bang. Imo n4rrate would be way more comfortable with another zoomer alongside him (Oke???) rather than an excessively strong presence like zellsis (this segment is full parasocial bullshit but that's how I view it anyway)

#13
c4rrotstix
1
Frags
+

I think this is what Sacy brought to the team that was so valuable, and maybe not even from all of his comms but just from being able to enable players to fight together and well. I think that if we have john being a senti as an IGL we have to have a better midrounder than bang/narrate on the team with zellsis, and someone who's able to mesh the team together from util to fights, because they just don't do that right now.

#12
Cael
1
Frags
+

Im saying it for a long time bang is not it, and narrate is a 1 map wonder everytime 1 good map 2 bad maps=lose.

Sentinels are regional merchants always get the easiest opponents first map picks everything that RNG can go right for them and still barely scrape even when they got paired with g2 in groups they played them first with babybay as sub who didnt touch the game profesionally for years.

Then barely make it far by most of the time getting easiest opponents in playoffs and invidual hero plays that just dont work in a tournament with the best teams.

Imo many calls were very good from johnqt and refighting together but at times they dont deliver or it goes not according to plan and their mental crumbles. then they stop being proactive and play reactively many lucky spams thru walls smokes or random recoils saved their run up until they got verified at an int tourney again.

Imo johnqt can stay and maybe zekken narrate gets a mental coach or kick. Zellsis bang paycheck stealers 1/2 flashy rounds per game and ppl keep forgiving them for all the bad performances somehow.

#14
SudokuDude
0
Frags
+

They really need something like a performance coach or a small change.

#15
mongu
-1
Frags
+

TLDR: sen bomb the roster and -kaplan

#17
c4rrotstix
0
Frags
+

-kaplan is such a braindead take im not even gonna lie

his players clearly can't perform on stage and are running around like headless chickens, and when they play against shitters their fundamentals are actually good. it is literally just the team that cannot perform under pressure, and it seems to me like theres 2 outliers who haven't won a masters trophy that went to map 5.

#19
Cael
1
Frags
+

To be fair a real good coach u can see changes in a team play in a couple of months kaplan been here for a long ass time and there is 0 improvment ofc its also players fault but i feel like he has to be at fault aswell cause some of the mistakes they are making are insane or how they run like headless chickens when enemy team throws a curveball or has a change of comp they have no idea what to do. So i'd say give kaplan a chance stage 1 if they dont show any changes even with new players get a new coach they have the money one of the most profitable teams in na...

#16
ScoutViolet
-1
Frags
+

agreed, BUT ik most people on this website have <0 patience and did not read that
so you need to insert analogies to roast sen to make it more interesting. Like, "After the NRG loss, I realized that this team was more done than family relations after thanksgiving politics arguments".
Or "My problem comes with how uncoordinated, or disgustingly bait-y the rest of the team plays around the man who is literally their star" should be turned into "the problem is that the team looks like they're dangling zekken as if they were dangling tuna for bait while fishing in the dead sea" to show that a) they're using him as bait (baiting) b) he's their star (tuna) and c) no one is falling for it (they're bad) because no fish in the dead sea.

u see what i mean

#18
cirruss
2
Frags
+

completely agree, i also think sen really didn't do a good job adapting to the meta this year and it really hurt them. the role changes also didn't work out, narrate should've stayed as a duelist / initiator (not scan) and john on senti and they should've dropped zellsis midseason. I think n4rrate would've played a fantastic yoru to compliment zekken and unfortunately sen didn't even bother trying with that.

sen couldn't rely on bang or zellsis to perform this year and the role issues across the board ultimately led to their downfall. drop zellsis and sign a real scan player, drop bang for a more aggressive and vocal smokes player and move narrate and john back to their normal roles. Kaplan could also go at this point, bc idrk how these issues went unaddressed for the entire year. Get a performance coach and run it back, the core of zekken / narrate / john can stay if they get their roles back

#20
ScoutViolet
0
Frags
+

they DID try that in case u didnt' watch. They played it (n4rrate yoru) vs g2 on bind and they got absolutely stomped.
they also tried n4rrate on iso, and they got stomped by (guess who) g2 on haven

#23
cirruss
1
Frags
+

they played narrate yoru for One map, i don't think it really makes sense to say they "tried it" when they threw it out in one map in playoffs instead of trying things out in groups in, i don't know, any of stage 1 or 2? it seemed more like a desperation pick than anything as sen never played bind again.

#27
ScoutViolet
0
Frags
+

well n4rrate has weak mental he probably thought it wouldn't work again since they got demolished on it

#30
cirruss
0
Frags
+

they clearly never scrimmed with a yoru double duelist comp

#22
Cael
0
Frags
+

Well i agree with the narrate role but at the same time they do need a mental coach, also its easier to igl on a sentinel so agree with that aswell, tho we don't know exactly why the roles didn't work but i assume any good T1 player can do well on any role excluding duelist, so it's propably kaplan fault there making those role changes and not correcting any playstyle with it no new strats nothing i doubt it's entirely on the roles but how they were used

#21
noahkraken
6
Frags
+

I feel like the players individually are talented but they don't make each other better. They oftentimes don't seem to be on the same page, utility timing is off, and they don't seem to have clear objectives as a team each round. Given how long this roster has been together, it might just be that they just aren't a cohesive group of players, and no amount of experience will change that. Sometimes players just don't fit well together, and that's okay.

#24
m0rtem
1
Frags
+

essentially bang lost his ability to bang people and everyone on that team got si*ver mentality. Got it

#25
dimmed
0
Frags
+

ok let me just address a few things here, first my criticisms:

  • Like you said before, SEN's problem isn''t mechanical but I do want to say SEN is an average to below average team mechanically when compared to the rest of the teams at champs
  • The difference in duties of old SEN vs new SEN definitely affects their play, but I don't think the replacements of Tenz/Sacy need to play the exact same way as them to achieve results so so so many times. I see Sen fans comparing N4RRATE to Sacy and Bang to Tenz but you guys need to realise they are not the same people. Like you don't copies of those 2 players to be competitive, you see teams like FNC/PRX/G2 they all play differently from old SEN
  • The fact is you can't and shouldn't be expecting N4RRATE to be able to follow-up on Zekken when he's playing scan, literally all scan initiators are baiters by their role, ideally you want your flex (Zellsis) and smokes (Bang) to be the one to follow-up with Zekken and that is what I think the problem with SEN is

I rewatched some parts of the SEN v GX game after I typed this and after the 1st map, they just look so lost and Johnqt is getting hard gapped as an IGL

#31
c4rrotstix
0
Frags
+
  • fair point, but I don't think they should be. Most teams have 4 really good fraggers and 1 guy who is lesser than the others unless you're like a PRX/G2, and I think that they should be to that level individual skill wise. (Honestly think G2 also has a hole in fragging in jawg just because of how they use him)

  • I agree that they might be able to make a new identity, but when you have the same igl, same coach, and same 2nd caller, it becomes very easy to keep the same way of playing the game. They also seem like they're trying to play in the same way of a dual attack side, but bang just does not fit their system and the clash is constantly showing. When on defense sides, bang being able to play an anchor position is where he thrives, and he's being told to (and often not doing) the role of the 2nd entry with zellsis, because they have a sentinel igl, and a flex player who is normally not a strong fragger. They are, by nature of the team set-up, having to play catch-up with sen 2024's system, and bang specifically just doesn't fit it.

-true, inits are often baiters by nature, but we can look at site execs/retakes and also util timings/comparing it with last year and its clear that there's a disconnect between them. Look at some of the util that sacy was throwing for zekken and the timings he was able to take because of them in some of their best games and then look at narrate setting up zekken. there is something that is going wrong, whether it be due to comms, or something else, and then when that timing goes wrong, we have bang who is just not going in when he should be to win space that zekken takes. I genuinely think that bang is an amazing player on the wrong team. The setup of this team just does not allow him to shine in the ways that he is good at, and he's much better on a 100T who need someone to play that anchor role and play it at a high level. I'd much rather have Cryo or someone transitioning on smokes because Cryo: 1. knows what its like to entry, and 2. went in with zekken for over a year on a highly successful team. That type of coordination will help immensely for this team, and if narrate can get on their wavelength can allow them to make their site takes that much more successful.

I also fucking hate the way that they called their defense side against that lotus comp xlg had, they felt so lost when kaplan wasn't spoon feeding them answers

#26
NewEraZ2
0
Frags
+

SEN didn't need another shooter in N4RRATE, we needed an Initiator with really good utility usage to setup Zekken. Bang was a great addition, I don't understand the hate he's getting.

#32
irahashax
0
Frags
+

because he was supposed to be a shooter, but he has not been shooting

#35
NewEraZ2
0
Frags
+

Bang is NOT a crazy fragger, but his utility is great, and he's really good in clutches, historically atleast.

#33
keener1600
0
Frags
+

hes unbelievably mid and looks like hes shitting himself in high pressure moments

#36
c4rrotstix
1
Frags
+

i don't think he's horrible, he's showing flashings of an incredible player, but i think there's a fork in the road between narrate and zellsis. if you want to keep zellsis, then you need to swap bang for someone who will go in with zekken and you need to either fix narrate's util timings or get rid of him for crashies or someone who is much more util based and midroundy - the sen 2024 style team

otherwise, if you want to keep narrate and his fragging (and lack thereof when it matters), you need to drop zellsis for someone who will go in with zekken as a flex player on site hits, because right now he is just being lead to die. This is a team that i'd see more of as a "normal" team than the sen 2024 architype, with a flex that can frag vs more for vibes

or the 3rd option of keep both, swap bang for someone who will be more selfless/aggressive for the team, and see if narrate can fix his timing issues on util and therefore allow zellsis to be more behind in the execs

#28
Aayan
2
Frags
+

I was honestly baffled last year when I saw so many SEN fans talking shit about Sacy. You're right about how much impact he had

#29
NewEraZ2
4
Frags
+

Zekken has even stated multiple times, that without Sacy and his insane utility usage, he wouldn't be able to get away with what hes able to get away with. He also had insane chemistry with Sacy, and I'm not seeing anywhere near the same chemistry with N4RRATE. If you want your duelist to succeed, you need somebody like Sacy. Look at Derke & Leo and Kangkang & S1mon during 2024 Champs.

#40
Shadow_Monarch
0
Frags
+

I've always said N4rrate don't belong on SEN. Great shooter but shitty initiator, poor attitude as well.

#37
KGad03
1
Frags
+

You got on PlatChat dawg

#41
c4rrotstix
0
Frags
+

rly? when

#38
Shadow_Monarch
0
Frags
+

Only read the last paragraph and I agree. We need a TLDR please.

Also, Zekken just needs a better smokes player and initiators - final story and conclusion, issues solved.

#39
BerLINglazer
0
Frags
+

bros trying to get a phd on valorant 😭😭

#42
senhater101
0
Frags
+

too lazy to read. In shorts, sen are dogs, give us zekken and bang

#43
Bluelive
0
Frags
+

I got clowned once here for making a post about how valuable Sacy is to the team with his util which put's him in equal value to N4rrate. This was when N4rrate was rumoured to join Sen, Sacy wasn't fragging really well and N4rrate just had a performance on KC. Good to see that was the only time I wasn't blinded by hindsight

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