can we all stfu about him? cant talk about any initiator without hearing Leo this or Leo that, can we all agree that the iPad kid is better and stop bringing him up like he's the boogeyman in every conversation even tho he only played for a year and a half
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Now that Leo is gone
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He had one peak year and got sick and retired.
Now we are pretending that “valorant will never be the same again without Leo 😭”
Like holy glaze, he had one peak, zero longevity. The game will carry on without him just fine.
His "one year peak" was him being a great player on a well-built team. Leo was always as good as his FNC days when he was on GUILD. His individual stats speak for themselves and the eye-test of his gameplay backs up how solid his decision-making is. If you don't want to take it from a VLR nobody, take it from his actual coach, Mini. He quite literally called his gameplay "how the game should be played". Mini is an amazing coach and his understanding of strategy and planning definitely gives him a valid stance to make this sort of claim about any player.
I agree with OP that the what-if's should stop now. Leo was amazing, but we have some new initiators who can show their quality.
This guy has a weaker legacy than all other goat candidates and even non goat candidates like the old drx core. If they all retired, valorant would lose an actually substantial portion of history. Same cannot be said about Leo. You are losing one year of history max since he got nothing done outside his 2023 run. Sure he was a good player but he legit had a single good year results wise. FNS had a more impactful retirement than Leo ffs. Monumental overreaction.
Meanwhile mako have 5 years legacy of having zero trophies at least he won 2 before leaving
Alright, then let's consider the old VS/DRX core. Mako, Buzz and Stax are the most significant players and the team as a whole definitely paved the way for Korean Valorant. VS/DRX are a cultural cornerstone in this sense and hold a legacy. However, you brought up the point about Leo doing nothing outside of 2023 in terms of international trophy wins. DRX have never won an international trophy and have a curse associated with them with how frequently they ended up in 5th/6th. Buzz and Stax only won a Masters trophy after going to T1 with Meteor who was an MVP contender at Shanghai - not to mention, G2 arguably choked that trophy.
Leo might not hold much cultural relevance for Sweden or EMEA, but he is very much a relevant individual in the initiator role. FNS's retirement was him fizzling out because he couldn't provide the results his team needed - he was a great IGL, but his fragging power was far below what was needed and his calls were starting to not hold as much value. Leo's significance as I have mentioned is down to his playstyle being so refined that it is quite literally influencing other top initiators. This may not be visible to you, but the players definitely see the value in Leo.
The difference is that if you take away his 2023 Leo barely be in the conversation while the drx core members would still have years of good performances domestically and internationally to back their resume. Now I’m sure if he kept playing the perfect player of all time he is would probably get more done but that didn’t happen, end of story.
The whole argument of: "If we just ignore the year Leo actually won something whilst still putting up numbers, he's a nobody" is silly. DRX players like Mako are going to go down in history as the best players to have never won - the greatest loser. Sure, that might actually hold a more memorable title, but Mako will always be held back in the GOAT conversation due to his lack of trophies. Leo is in the discussion because he not only won once, but he won back to back whilst playing good. The fact that he won two trophies in a year is testament to his quality because FNC had never won a trophy before then and that was a team including Derke, Alfajer and Boaster. Chronicle was a good player, but Leo MVP'd Lock-In and was the second best player at Tokyo and Champs.
The DRX core and the organisation as a whole will basically be overshadowed by T1 and GENG since they won something at least whilst DRX continue to come close. If you want to push the goal lines and change the criteria for what puts a player in the GOAT conversation, please keep doing so. The fact of the matter is that Leo's time in the spotlight was amazing and his legacy will last through initiator players that follow in his style because it truly was how Valorant was meant to be played.
The best analogy I would have is Niko retiring winless in majors . His retirement would easily have more of an impact than of a previously unremarkable player results wise suddenly becoming the most dominant player, then retiring after winning two majors in a year.
Another example would be chovy and zeka if you are familiar with league. Up until recent chovy was considered one of the best mids ever with a long record of top finishes to back but no wins internationally. Meanwhile zeka who was basically a nobody beforehand suddenly looked like the best player itw in 2022 and won worlds. Chovy obviously means more to the game than zeka does.
The point is that legacy is defined by consistent longevity at the top rather than short bursts of success. In five years, while people will still remember Fnatic’s run because of how historic it was, few will remember Leo, because he was just a small snippet in the story of the game.
My critique with your analogies is the Niko has been in the CS scene longer than Valorant has been around. He is a 9x Top 20 player of the year. Valorant definitely needs to take a couple more years to really put players like Leo's legacy to the test of time. The league examples are somewhat fair but I would argue that the Zeka comparison is more akin to someone like Demon1 who won Champs but has never quite hit the same peak since. You could also throw in Zeek and Cned.
If you want to divulge into the pre-2023 history for Leo, he was on GUILD which had some promise, but was competing against the likes of FPX, FNC and TL. Even then, they couldn't get past teams like OG LDN UTD and NAVI pretty much because GUILD was not great outside of Leo and Sayf and a bit of Trexx. But Trexx was and still somewhat is kind of a middle-of-the-pack player who has a high ceiling. Koldamenta, Russ and Yacine were all not really great. Despite this, Leo was still putting up numbers on GUILD which is why he got the move to a winning team. Think of it like Lebron switching from the Cavs to the Miami Heat.
Time will definitely test Leo's legacy, but his retirement is undoubtedly impactful for the community and I don't think it's an overreaction when other players and his former coach still hold him in high regards.
the drx players wouldn't have shit, even after stax and buzz won a trophy no one puts them in their top 10 all time. hell they probably don't make it to most people's top 20. even mako who people consider their best he's been inconsistent since mid 2023
Lots of players have been just good since 2020 and he only dominated one year on the best team ever assembled
Leo probably is still the Greatest initiator we've seen but he's not as untouchable as people make him out to be
so you thought this and decided making another Leo thread would solve your problem
smart man
just want us to all be in agreement to stop treating this guy like he is Jesus when in reality he was a very good player but not the undisputed goat
A big reason of why people talk so highly of him is because if you actually watched him play in 2023, he often looked like the best player on a team already containing 3 of the top 5 players on most people’s all time list. Even before joining FNC, he looked like the best player in almost every match he played, even if he didn’t do outstanding statistically. The eye test was incredible
Someone had to say it. Respect for falling on the sword
The way people talk about him on here you’d think he’s never lost an event/series/map/round/gun fight
other initiators have low FD, are last alive a lot and have good util/midround: f*cking stats player/ baiter/ gun + agent merchant!!!11!!!!
Leo having low FD, is last alive a lot and have good util/midround: OMG he is the undisputed GOATTTTT have my babies :3
Wasnt he top 5 rated stats or sum every single year from 2021 up until 2024
yall stayed years talking about TenZ in every thread when he didn't really do as nearly as much and retired basically when he could see he wasn't a top player anymore. So idk man, I think the amount people talk of Leo doesn't get "TenZ level of annoyance" tbh.
nah bro I let people reminisce, it's more about the people that always bring up Leo when anybody ever gives another initiator credit, especially trent.
Any new good initiator is new Leo, trying to be Leo, not as good as Leo... I'm only making this post to say that we need to stop bringing this guy up any chance we get
i agree with your sentiment, it does get a tad bit annoying that people compare these rising initiator players to leo when they can very much so build a legacy under their own name
'he didn't really do as nearly as much' 2x masters winner (2021/2024) vs 1x kickoff/masters (2023)
and if you are supporting the Leo glaze then ofc you would be delusional about the amount of people talking about him even when he wasn't playing
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