aspas is def in the goat debate but can we stop with only considering him the ultimate goat?? less,chron,leo,nAts all are contenders for the goat title even more than aspas.
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goat debate
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Only correct answer till someone wins more than 3 international across different rosters and different metas
sacy couldve been if he kept playing but my bald goat is too humble to be the goat
I mentioned 3 internationals not three "majors".
Riot themselves categorised under a masters.
Factually speaking, Lock-in was the most difficult bracket since you couldn't make any mistakes and the number of teams were the most.
All in all, my point still stands, objectively speaking, Chronicle did in fact win 3 "internationals" with different rosters and in different metas.
Mickey mouse or not, that's subjective.
very true. he has just one major win and most people dont even consider him the mvp of that
Oh mb what I meant was I personally had Less as the MVP than the eventually crowned MVP, Aspas.
So that was my preference and not the factual MVP.
That champs was undeserved. They lost to Vivo Keyd and got lucky. They got such an easy bracket. They got their scrim partners in the finals
They lost to Vivo Keyd and then replayed them cause of abusing a cypher cam glitch.
I think there's good reason for that. Aspas is always one of the top players itw every year and every team he joins immediately becomes a title contender.
Meanwhile less has been inconsistent, chron wasnt the best player on his team for his chips, leo hasn't been in the league for a good minute now, and nats hasn't had much international success in a while.
'no international success' nAts has same amount of trophies as 'top title contender' aspas btw
I didn't say no international success, i meant he just hasn't had much since 2021. Also int success isn't just defined by trophies, it's about deep playoff runs (top 3 at champs 2024) and consistently willing your team to LANs like aspas has done year after year with lev and now with mibr.
Not The Case everytime
Lev:
Before he joined – A low mid-tier team.
After he joined – The team improved significantly, placing 3rd in CHAMPS.
After he left – The core remained, but the team dropped back to being low mid-tier.
MIBR:
Before he joined – A bottom-tier team, slightly better than FURIA.
Now – A top-3 team in both regular seasons (alongside Verno), despite low expectations due to rookie status.
Overall, I’d say he elevated every team he was part of more than any Player
Alfajer > Less btw
Less is goat of sentinel but Alfa is better player. His agent pool is def larger
i wonder how much we should value agent pool cause aspas is one of the best duelists of all time but he's never played yoru and the only other non-duelist agent im aware he's played was chamber but even then he wasn't loud's chamber player. But yes alfa>less
nAts isnt even above sacy or tenz in the goat convo, dont be delusional
the only close to aspas its chronicle
leo 1 year without playing and ppl still consider him top 1 emea meat riders are getting crazy
to me personally, only aspas, tenz, and chronicle are the goats for various reasons. others are debatable.
I agree. We should definitely start considering other contenders instead of Aspas, especially TenZ.
i mean he is not the undeniable GOAT like Faker but he is definitely ahead on the discussion as of now. If you do a pool on who the GOAT is with every VCT fan he is definitely winning it. Most pro players agree as well. Even Riot seems to agree honestly just look at how they portray Aspas whatever its an official VCT promo for a tournament he is on.
because these vct fans dont watch the games with their eyes open. they always think more kills=better player but in fact its not always the case. more kills are good in case of jemkin and rarga who carry their team. all 4 roles have equal weightage and ppl should even consider other roles asw. these "vct fans" only consider aspas,demon1,kangkang and tenz in these conversation because of the amt of frags they got in their prime. also to clarify myself, i didnt say aspas is not in the goat conversation, its just that other players have more chances of being called the goat than him.
Do pros not watch the games as well? Because most of them who have publically spoken about the topic agree Aspas is the GOAT like Fns, Nats, Zekken, Derke, Sacy, Jawgemo etc.
And no, not all the roles are equally important. If a duelist is good enough he can singe-handedly win you a series (which Aspas has done multiple times), thats not the case with any other role. Duelist is by far the most impactful role in the game and this is not arguable (and you seem to agree with me because the 2 players you mentioned as "carries" are duelists). There is a reason why Aspas' teams are always finding success. If Aspas was a controller i guarantee you MIBR and LEV wouldnt be anywhere near as good/successful in 24 and 25. Aspas is the hardest carry in the history of VCT and its not close.
No one is closer to being the GOAT than him.
Aspas for now is the goat.
Masters Reykjavik: 2nd
Champs 2022: 1st
Americas 2023: 1st
VCT Lock/in: 2nd ( best final in VCT history imo)
Champs 2023: 3rd
Americas 2024 split 2: 1st
Champs 2024: 3rd
and now qualified to masters with MIBR which is more impressive than it seems
Was for sure but he's been invisible these past 2 years. 2023 was the last we actually heard of him
I would only consider Leo, Tenz and Derke in the goat debate along with Aspas. Derke and Aspas are kinda equal.
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