SINATRA DEFENDERS COME

#1

indicrow

Addressing claims that no conviction means she was lying, false accusations are commonplace and she did it for attention, etc.

98% of perpetrators walk free

"For every 1000 sexual assaults, 50 reports lead to arrests, 28 cases lead to a felony convictions, and only 25 perpetrators are sentenced to incarceration." Federal Bureau of Investigation, National Incident-Based Reporting System, 2012-2016 (2017).

This study also showed that accusations of rape that are proven credible are often times not reported or investigations are dropped out of fear, mental health, or distrust in the justice system.

Similar studies continue to show only a 1-4% rate of conviction, including one published in Jan. of 2025 (NBC investigation) which looked at thousands of documents from police, prosecution offices, and courts across the entire USA.

Many studies have been done on false reporting. The general conclusion is that 5% of accusations are likely false, however when stricter criteria is applied for evidence (direct evidence proves it is false or a direct admission of lying from the accuser) the rate drops to 2%.

NOT TO MENTION THERE IS AUDIO RECORDING OF SINATRA ASSAULTING HER, HE DIDN'T PROVIDE THE EVIDENCE HE CLAIMED HE HAD AS HE PROMISED IN HIS STATEMENT, MADE FALSE STATEMENTS TO RIOT, AND THERE IS TEXT EVIDENCE OF HIM BEING EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE REPETITIVELY

You have to ask yourself, if there is a paper trail showing that he regularly is emotionally abusive and does not care about her emotionally well being and boundaries, and audio evidence of him violating consent (sexual assault), PLUS the statistical likelihood of her accusation being credible rather than not....

WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING HIM?

#2

termtermtermterm

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innocent until proven guilty for the r*pe thing

as for everything else I believe that people can change

#4

Uncleben

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That’s for legal consequences btw, people are welcome to think what they want

#7

termtermtermterm

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indeed people are welcome to think what they want, so why is there so much stress being put on people just because they have the opinion of defending him?

#9

Uncleben

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People are indeed welcome to think as they please, and people are also welcome to discuss those opinions, hence why opinions can be criticized

#24

KiwiJuice

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what "change" have you ever seen in this guy. Read the texts, he's a manipulating drama queen. Is it the fake nonchalance, pretending not to care? Who doesn't see through that, he's a fucking loser with "a million dollars". Wow so cool.

#3

Uncleben

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If I go through the post history of Sinatraa defenders I’d better not see one post about “molescent” or “flordiddy” btw

#5

SudokuDude

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Can we stop talking about this already? Shit is boring rn

#6

lejargon

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Allat, Sinatraa to Tier 1 please

#8

Acethyr

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i would rather protect an innocent person than punish a guilty person
there is no sufficient evidence
im less inclined to believe someone who comes online to crucify someone for sexual assault instead of going to cops. gives off massive attention seeker vibes and the person who does it, historically, is usually lying
his side of the story is pretty believable too

#10

indicrow

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This argument would make sense if the metrics we have to prove someone guilty vs innocent was correct a majority of the time. Countless studies have proven that the justice system lets rapists walk FAR more than just conviction. This is separate from the fact there are dozens of screenshots and audio evidence.
There may not be enough public evidence for conviction (beyond a reasonable doubt) but this isn’t a court of law. The current evidence plus statistical likelihood makes it far more likely than not.
The most effective method for stopping a famous abuser is certainly not going to the cops. This is once again proven by repeated studies showing a horrifically low rate of abusers being charged and/or convicted. Putting evidence out to the public and RIOT who are in direct control of his career makes plenty of practical sense.
Statistical 5% vs 95%, plus all the screenshots and the audio recording, doesn’t seem very believable to me.

#11

Acethyr

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what are you even talking about bro, how do the screenshots prove in any way he sexually assaulted her, they just show that he was an insecure dumbass who had nothing going on up there
the evidence absolutely does NOT make it more likely for him to be a rapist than not, the best thing she has going for her is an audio recording that is very likely out of context.

almost every single person who ive seen step up on twitter to call someone out for having sexually assaulted them, has been found out to be lying.

#18

indicrow

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Here is another well researched statistic for you:

Both people who are emotionally abusive, physically abusive, or both are more likely than the average person to be convicted or accused or rape at some point during their life.

Also what you personally see on twitter is not evidence. That is purely anecdotal. There is a reason anecdotal evidence has killed hundreds of thousands, if not millions, over the course of human history. Cause it is wildly unreliable and is usually not indicative of the truth.

#21

Acethyr

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brother this is some inhuman shit im sorry but im over this, you people are legit pissin me off

the fuck do you mean by this, he was insecure as a person so now hes more likely to have been a rapist? and your comment below which says he was more likely to be a rapist than not? genuinely gtfo i cba w this

im so glad people like you arent in charge of the judgement system

#26

indicrow

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For the 10000th time i’m not saying he is guilty enough to be put behind bars based on the current evidence. I’m saying it’s more likely than not he is a rapist and shouldn’t be defended by the public.

What I said was a statistically proven FACT. I didn’t make it up it has been studied by research scientists multiple times. People who act in emotionally abusive ways are more likely to violate sexual boundaries too. Doesn’t mean every single person does, it just adds to the likelihood.

#77

kfan4238173

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Just cause it's more likely doesn't mean it is likely

#27

serot

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he is currently in a happy relationship with his new girlfriend who seems to love him very much and stuck by his side through the allegations, which also doesn't fit the profile of a evil abuser
immaturity != intentional emotional abuse
its well documented that SA leads to PTSD, trauma, etc, yet the accuser is posting thirst traps online which seems pretty counterintuitive for a victim of SA
the most damning piece of evidence was a short audio clip of her saying no, and sinatraa has clarified how out of context it is in his own tweet

I highly recommend you read his response
If supposed victims are to be heard out unconditionally, I believe the accused should also be allowed to have their voice heard
https://x.com/sinatraa/status/1862644631067849178?lang=en

#30

indicrow

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There is no evidence that an offender in a happy relationship now did not abuse someone in the past. There are tried and convicted rapists, murderers, and worse in happy relationships now. Why should his current GF’s moral compass be used as evidence.
He was at an age where his brain is capable of making decisions and the decision to act emotionally abusive is the one he chose. He was not a toddler or mentally handicapped leading to not understanding the impact of his actions.
She is consenting to post thirst traps. She did not consent to being abused emotionally or sexually. Basic consent is a sex-ed topic 6th graders learn. Also your argument is founded on the same logic as “depressed people can’t be happy at times” and “people with anxiety can never feel relaxed” and so on.
Sinatra clarifying something in a tweet doesn’t mean it is not true. Why is his word so trustworthy?
The world has heard him out too. Doesn’t change the fact that the evidence plus statistics still show that he assaulted her more likely than not. Not to mention RIOT themselves stated they caught him misrepresenting certain facts at multiple points during the investigation.

#37

serot

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First of all your statistic hinges on emotional abuse as a tool for coercing sex. He was insecure and projected his insecurities through controlling behavior like cheating accusations and location tracking. That is NOT the same as coercing sex through intentional emotional abuse.
An insecure nerdy teenager who is either in his first or one of his first relationships WILL NOT MAKE OPTIMAL DECISIONS. A capability to make decisions does not mean you have the life experience to make correct decisions every time, especially in relationships. In fact if you observe the average teenager's life you will find a MULTITUDE of bad decisions happening frequently: none of which can definitively define a person as evil
There is a difference between recovering from SA trauma to the point of being open to intimacy again and flaunting yourself suggestively online immediately after opening up over a supposed extremely traumatic life experience.
By the same logic nothing she says can be held to the same standard either?
What makes it more likely that he assaulted her? The evidence is at a point of he-said she-said, and you clearly have made up your mind in the favor of the accuser. Both given explanations for what occurred are entirely likely and plausible. If we made decisions like this off statistics then false accusations would be unstoppable. And in fact, most internet SA situations result in the accuser "winning" afaik. We are just as due for a false accusation atp, Mr. stats.

#40

Uncleben

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Don’t feel like replying to anything else, but let me just address your third point
A lot of sex workers have been assaulted at some point

Many of them experienced this assault before they became a sex worker

Hyper sexuality is a common trauma response from sexual assault

There was also a time gap between the accusation and when they broke up, and therefore a time gap between the alleged SA and the only fans

#45

serot

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fair points tbh, ty for the correction

#78

penpen

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yeah i was gonna say that bcos they try to "take back" that part of their life and then enevitablly ends up being hypersexual + hard kinks due to past experiences

#12

Disastered

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using statistics for something as difficult to prove as sexual assault when there is no stastical evidence doesn't suddenly give you the right to deem him more likely a rapist.

#19

indicrow

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We use statistics to determine whether something is more likely than not 24/7 across the entire human experience. The evidence plus the statistics absolutely are enough to say that he raped her more likely than not.

#28

serot

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If I mentioned certain statistics about black people in america I would be considered a racist
statistics NEVER tell the full story... there is always more factors to consider

#34

indicrow

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Let's follow your argument to its logical conclusion.

Violence and robberies are not crimes committed for the same reason as rape (duh). Studies show that lack of basic foundational needs being met (hunger, food, shelter, physical safety, etc) lead to higher crime rates. There is also a difference in the type of robberies and types of violence. A robbery committed for money that is more necessary for survival than luxury is different than someone robbing a bank to be a millionaire. Same with murder and violence. Murdering someone when you are a part of a gang you joined while young and is you entire support network and social group is different than someone murdering a random person off the street for fun. While neither are necessary, one is heavily influenced by the conditions of the persons upbringing and situation. This by no means makes it OK or justifiable. It just proves that the statistic you are referring to has far less to do with race and more to do with socioeconomic status. This is also proven by studies that show when people are lifted out of poverty or find safety and community in places not controlled by gangs crime rates decrease heavily.

Now, lets look at the situation surrounding Sinatra.

Sinatra is an up-and-coming esports player with a girlfriend, salary that only some could dream of, and stability in his life. He chooses to be abusive simply because it is easier than controlling his emotions. There is no notable socioeconomic influence making him be an asshole to his girlfriend. Furthermore, rape is a selfish crime that fulfills the need of sexual gratification in the most barbaric way possible. He has two hands and could use them instead. He could leave his GF and go hookup with someone who is consenting. The possibilities go on. Yet, he CHOSE to rape her instead. There were ZERO outside factors pushing him to do this. He is completely in control of his actions. This is true for rape in general. It is a crime that cannot be tied to socioeconomic influence the same ways that some other crimes can. Again, due to the fact that there is a quick and easy way to fulfill whatever desire without raping someone, and the individuality of the crime removes it from things like gang or group violence.

Now you see the problem. Your argument makes zero sense here and honestly you shot yourself in the foot because it just further proves how easy it would have been for him to respect her.

Next time think your logic through.

#36

Acethyr

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Fair play bro you win the argument no one is readin allat, you can have it bro

You want this more

#38

serot

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Yeah you proved my point... surface level statistics on complex matters (like race, socioeconomics, emotions and relationships) cannot be quantified using bare statistics, because they are founded on irrationality. You are trying to rationalize an irrational situation with dubious statistics on already dubious situations you absolute buffoon.

And all this is on the presumption that this was rape, or that he was conscious of her retracting consent due to reading it as roleplay, or a multitude of factors that could reframe this audio clip. But no, because he was a insecure and controlling boyfriend that equates to a jump to stats about coercing sex through emotional abuse. There is a pretty big leap you've made while bridging the two.

#43

indicrow

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All i’m saying is it is more likely than not. I’m using data to back up my argument that typically the person making an accusation of rape is far more likely to be telling the truth than lying. i’m using data that says people who engage in emotionally abusive actions with some regularity are more likely to be sexually abusive too. Yes obviously we don’t know what happened exactly but if we use our brains we can see one reality is far more likely than the other. I’m not a judge and jury and neither are you. But the direct proof that exists combined with the data we have about abusers helps formulate opinions (not verdicts) in the absence of a conviction. And as much as you might hate it, the current evidence and what we know about sex crimes supports one side more vs the other.

#48

serot

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And as much as you might hate it, the current evidence and what we know about sex crimes supports one side more vs the other.

No, I don't think so at all, and plenty of people would agree. You keep trying to frame your personal opinions on the matter as facts. The reality is neither side has anything even close to damning evidence. You are literally arguing that he is indefensible over some probabilities. I doubt you apply this mentality at all to anything else in life, because you would otherwise literally be the most discriminatory person imaginable thinking like this for everything. Also I have found the study in question and you are being so misleading about it.

All that the study says is that in order from strongest to least strongest correlation: "emotional IPV perpetration was positively associated with stalking perpetration, physical IPV perpetration, causing injury to a partner, controlling behaviors victimization, sexual IPV perpetration, physical IPV victimization, controlling behaviors perpetration, and sexual IPV victimization."

Note that sexual IPV victimization has the LOWEST positive correlation, and that they considered it a "positive correlation" which could mean a non-statistically-significant association. In other words you are basically using stats you don't even understand, and the stats themselves barely even support your case to any meaningful degree. Not to mention that IPV is a very wide spectrum of associated behaviors, and that sinatraa exhibited controlling behavior at the maximum by both parties' admissions.

#51

Disastered

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this is a lot to try and understand

#42

Disastered

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this all feels like its laced within a bias against his character so you are using stats to back your argument that he's "likely" a rapist because of stats that don't apply to something so nuanced and proof necessary

#44

indicrow

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There is some direct proof too. I’m using data to help show that one reality is more probable than the other in conjunction with that. It’s that simple.

#60

satellite_kov

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if SINATRAA 👽 and my girl 👧 😍 both drowning 😱 👋 and I can only save one 😤 😬 Catch me at the enemy spawn door 🚪 🔴 with my boy on tracer 🌈 💯

#46

SudokuDude

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I used stats once and got the 1 week timeout for it so you're not wrong

#31

Rakooon

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On the first point, how do these so called "studies" prove what the court system itself couldn't prove? I think these reasearchers don't have near the same amount of resources the justice system has at its disposal to investigate these cases.
Most often than not, there are no convictions because it cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, thus no conviction can take place.
You keep saying statistics this, studies that, but I find it hard to believe there's any sort of solid scientific process on something as hard to prove as sexual assault.

#35

indicrow

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I'm not trying to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm saying that given what we know about sex crimes in general and those who commit them, combined with the evidence we have against Sinatra, the reality in which he assaults her is more likely than not. Also, research has proven that courts are not good at investigating and convicting sex crimes and these cases are often times pushed aside completely. It doesn't matter if they have the resources it is whether or not they choose to apply/use them.

#39

Rakooon

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You are not answering the question, you're answering again with the "research has proven", how have they proven this? How can they decisively find out that the court has given an incorrect sentence in their verdicts when they don't have any sort of empirical method to verify the truth?

I'm not trying to prove beyond a reasonable doubt

In criminal cases like sexual assault, proof beyond a reasonable doubt is required by law. I don't know what you are trying to prove then, what was the point in bringing up the justice system in this if you are admitting yourself that there is no such proof on most cases? You contradict yourself.

#41

indicrow

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You could open the study and read the methodology??? Yeah, duh, they can’t prove 100% it happened for the cases they study but they can structure them to be as accurate with the information they have and understand there is some margin of error (as with every study). If we tossed aside studies that used data that wasn’t 100% perfect we would still be bloodletting rn.

#13

bigboysam

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wtf that first point even mean surely you'd rather protect a countless amount of people by punishing the guilty person?

#16

Acethyr

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you didnt understand the point at all

in this case, it is not KNOWN whether or not the person is innocent or guilty
so you assume they're innocent, as it is more important to make sure an innocent person is not sent to jail, than to have a guilty person roam free

that is the whole premise of "innocent until proven guilty" i just explained it more

#20

bigboysam

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seems more important to ensure that the guilty person doesn't roam free and potentially do it again but I suppose that's just differing views

#22

Acethyr

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as far as im concerned it is far more importnat to ensure an innocent person doesn't get punished for something they didnt do

#81

penpen

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its strange that the same logic can be applied the other way tho would you rather believe a potential rapist or believe a liar. but in most cases online the best way is to believe no one bcos most of us do not have the training to talk about the legality of things or access to all the evidence like a courtroom does.

#82

Acethyr

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I would MUCH rather believe the “potential rapist” because it’s bad to assume someone is guilty based off someone else’s word

And yeah we should believe everyone is innocent until further details, that’s what my initial point was

#83

penpen

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no your initial point isnt the same what im saying is be skeptical of both but not saying theyre both innocent thats not how it works. its about not picking a side lmao.

#85

Acethyr

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How are you out here tryna tell me what MY initial point was bro

I’m literally talking about innocent until proven guilty, everyone is innocent until proven otherwise

#25

indicrow

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We aren’t in a court of law. At most, we are debating if Sinatra should be allowed to return to Valorant pro play. Imagine if every boss had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that an employee they are trying to fire deserves to be let go. Imagine if you couldn’t fire an employee who was accused of being inappropriate in the workplace until they got a court conviction. That would be stupid.

#14

catNmouse

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the real question is why is he getting so much glaze when he has not played for 4 years

#15

Disastered

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he did decent no

#17

SkyXD

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bro did decent in 2 (two) offseason games against t2 players from this year and now people are glazing him like it’s 2021 or sm sht

#32

Acethyr

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tbf i was just happy for the guy
it was nice to see him come back and play well after all the shit hes been through

#33

uwukitten

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children think his lame ass personality is cool

#23

PandaZ

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billionth sinatraa post of the day

#29

sh1lll

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the only time sybau is a reasonable response

ur a droid who lacks regular human interaction so u have to over compensate with bullshit and attention farming

#47

EndMePleaseUwU

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No proof

#49

Jezy

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I mean the starting an OF immediately after thing is real grimy but sin still isn’t in the right and unfortunately he had much access to alot of money at a very young age not excusing him being a shit human being but bruh life cant be easy with whatever other shit happened idk

#50

fungame024

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sexual assault doesnt determine one's valorant ability so i dont really gaf and i will be happy if he plays on envy

#52

bl4z31ng

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so not to twist your words but this implies you would be okay with a player who is a serial killer just because he's good at valorant

#56

fungame024

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honestly why not, but what im trying to say is that this is valorant and it shouldnt have to do with the mistake that one made.
im sure he can learn from it even if he did it

#61

bl4z31ng

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morality matters more than entertainment and skill

hypothetically speaking if sinatraa actually did it, they'd have to ban him, there's a reason a lot of people stopped listening to d4vd after all the information regarding the body in his car. there's a reason roblox's stock drastically dropped after they banned someone for hunting down pedos. there's a reason ow's player count dropped after the california lawsuit. all three of those are stuff people enjoyed, but their creators turned out to be immoral

#71

nobody___100

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man you are retarded

#74

fungame024

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yea

#59

InYourDreams

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You are talking to a racist person already better be careful

#53

gutterslugs

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i just know this thread is bumpin d4vd

#54

Abcdefg

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that's a lot of words

#55

Static506

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I wonder if westjett will make a video about this

#57

satellite_kov

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the girl legit said she had a video recording of it yet hasnt presented it to authorities that tells me all i need to know

#58

InYourDreams

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I don’t care about his allegations I just want to see that man play in competition his gamestyle is what made me like him

#62

iluvpeng

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Not defending him at all, still think what he did was wrong even in the best case scenario for him. BUT i do think he should atleast be allowed to play now, he was suspemded for his actions, but he already made his time. I get not liking him ,but you cant get mad at riot for letting him play. Same shit goes with criminals, the crime they did still baf ,but that doesnt mean they shoudnt have the ability to change their lives around after theyve done their time. Now then, if there was more evidence against him then yeah,maybe the punishment should be greater. But its too much of a she said and he said situation. And you can tell both parties are manipulating the story.

#63

FUSaitama

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Innocent until proven guilty exists for a reason. Accusations alone are not proof, no matter how serious the allegation or how bad the statistics around convictions are.

Statistics about how often perpetrators walk free explain flaws in the justice system, they do not establish guilt in a specific case. You don’t judge individuals by probability.

You can believe victims deserve to be taken seriously and still believe that guilt must be proven, not assumed. Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive.

#64

FUSaitama

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and according to this, if a person comes up to me and accuses me of these kinds of things, the police should convict and society should automatically believe her??

because of some stats ??

shi mentality tbh.

Common sense is not very common these days sadly.

#66

KClaw

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Hey it's ur bad to think an American eagle would understand common sense

#67

FUSaitama

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yeah mb 😅

#65

KClaw

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The big question is why are you declaring him guilty? Idk whether he's guilty or not but I am not saying anything , I defend him because some people like you here attack him constantly and declare him guilty and harass him over it

#68

stellaresca

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charges were let go
ex made an onlyfans right after and seems to just sweep the case under the rug
let it go bro its been years people change (crazy concept for a person online to take in dw itll take time)
if he is a shit person he wouldnt be accepted within the pro community, most the haters are (you know who)
if he still does that eventually he’ll pull a logan paul and gets exposed again
let it go bro this topic is as dead as a stray pet that goes to PeTA

#70

TwistedTemp0

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wait she actually made an OF?..damn lol

#76

stellaresca

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yep. not long after the changes were dropped

#69

Marii

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My only issue on this site is that innocent until proven guilty only extends to people you like if it’s someone you already dislike (flor) people hold the accusations against them

#72

Monsteiur

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All im gonna say, was that this relationship was between TWO immature people and this case really should have been handled outside of riot games.

#73

AvgRossiFan

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You play valorant so you're an edater ahh argument, good ragebait 6.7/8 , I'll give that to you, but ts gave it away

Sinatra clarifying something in a tweet doesn’t mean it is not true. Why is his word so trustworthy?

You conveniently dont seem to hold her to the same standard

#75

Nollihd07

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I mean I don't take sides but the timing of that accusations was way too you know good?
Like why exactly when he qualified not before or after?

#79

LugiaVLR

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The problem with this argument is you are declaring him guilty already from the start just because your "statistics" says so

#80

Number_1_Sheydos_Fan

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here's some stats for you (since they are more important than the facts of the situation to you)

mwzera https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/VK%20mwzera%234324/overview?playlist=competitive&season=all
cNed https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/ACE%20cNed%23carry/overview?season=all
TenZ https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/SEN%20TenZ%230505/overview?playlist=competitive&season=all

DEATHMATCH STATS
mwzera - 86% win rate (thats the insaniest thing ive seen in a while)
cNed - stats not availiable
TenZ - 73% win rate

RANKED STATS
mwzera - 66.3% winrate (MVP of 95% of the matches) proof here https://imgur.com/StiJmpg
cNed - 53.5% winrate (MVP of 13% of the matches)
TenZ - 60.4% winrate (MVP of 15% of the matches)

can you take your time to appreciate how insane mwzera is? without a doubt the most talented player to ever touch the game

I'll try to explain briefly why I think he is the best player in the world
Despite his insane aim and movement
The best way to know if a player is a good duelist is RAZE. There is a BIG difference between a good duelist and a jett abuser
If he is a good duelist, he needs to be good with raze.

heat? not good with raze
aspas? not good with raze
xand? not good with raze
tenz? not good with raze
cned? not good with raze
scream? not good with raze
d3ffo? not good with raze
derke? not good with raze

Thats why I think he is undoubtely the best player in the world. If RIOT by any means decides to nerf jett and shift the meta we prolly not gonna even hear names like cned and tenz again :>
He is not killing 40+ per map because when he joined VK he was forced to play a different role because heat is already a main jett... and lets be honest, every single duelist nowadays gets 20+ kills per map because team and setups are basically built around you (even steel managed to get 20 kills with it https://www.vlr.gg/29398/sentinels-vs-100-thieves-champions-tour-north-america-stage-3-challengers-playoffs-gf/?game=46692&tab=overview)

#84

WhzyGlazer420

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as a girl, 0/8 ragebait. sinatraa is innocent

#86

Monsteiur

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not really innocent, he was still a horrible boyfriend and immature back then. (I'm not taking side btw, i believe sinatraa has change for the better, and that his ex is also a horrible person for overblowing a sour/bitter relationship and turning it into false SA allegations out of spite, and not working with actual authority)

#87

valkin

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qpXZNbtpY0

just watch this video and it explains in depth the accusations

#88

Monsteiur

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bro thinks vlr users have the attention span to watch a 29 minutes video

#89

valkin

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its a good video xd just 2x it

#90

g2gcHATER

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Hi i am from Israel and we love Sinatraa