Sinatra | VLR.gg

#1

Uncleben

You can believe he’s a rapist or not, but the text messages and twitlonger proved he an abusive, controlling, and toxic boyfriend IN OTHER WAYS (text messages attached ato twitlonger as proof)
Sinatra even admitted to this partially in his response, saying he did make mistakes and is sorry for hurting her but that he didn’t rape her

Sexual abuse is not the only kind of abuse that’s wrong btw
Just wanted to clear it up for the people calling him innocent
He might be innocent of rape but not of abuse

EDIT: FOR EVERYONE SAYING NO EVIDENCE OF NON SEXUAL ABUSE HERE IS TWITLONGER FROM HIS EX, SCROLL TO TEXT MESSAGES
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S9OpZhPEWLyBt9baj4xzC2mnk_2327AS_iOhheJfA04/mobilebasic

#2

termtermtermterm

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was*

no matter what, people can change

i dont condone abuse but it was years ago, surely from 19 to 24 he has become a better person

#5

Uncleben

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That assuming he didn’t rape her, but regardless people should be able to complain that he gets an opportunity
He might have become a better person but that doesn’t change the amount of trauma he inflicted on someone
That kinda shit never goes away

#71

Hynix

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all the things you said are fully true but this coming from flordiddy glazer is rich

#72

Uncleben

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Why am I a “flordiddy” glazer

#73

Hynix

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ngl i haven't been on this site in a long time i fully mistaked you for a different user

#74

Uncleben

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LMFAO

For the record I am not a flordiddy glazer tho, the cases is actually remarkably similar to sinatraa’s

#3

Uncleben

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Btw his ex starting an only fans is not evidence of her lying, I hate this argument
Many sex workers are assaulted. Sex workers can be raped. Even if his ex tried to used it as clout or sum shit, that doesn’t change the fact that he could have raped her.

#14

xSaneZ

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Ofc it's not evidence, the majority of people have never been arguing based on concrete evidence otherwise this discussion would be long over, its just about what they believe is more likely. There's no evidence to clearly say sinaatra raped her, and there's no evidence to say she did this purely for attention.

But people are either way inclined to form an opinion based on the actions present, and judge it from their own point of view using their own beliefs and pattern recognition. Her starting an onlyfans immediately after gaining all the attention and following from the drama IS suspicious and aligns with many other proven cases in the past where it was a method to gain recognition and money after breaking up with someone famous. Then there's all the other things like it not being brought to court but rather twitter, her also not cooperating with riot, etc.

Does that mean it's all evidence? No, it just means people are inclined to believe one side over the other. It's the exact same for the people who think sinaatta did rape her based on their judgment of his character. The only way we can even TRY to find the truth is at the very least putting our biases aside and be accepting of information and arguments from both sides. The majority of arguments I see being made is actually just an attempt for one side to show information to the other side that they might not have already been aware of, but then they follow it up with something like "so clearly this is the truth..." which is where they go wrong

#16

Uncleben

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So Sinatraa might have raped someone and did abuse someone, while his ex might be clout chasing

Even if she was clout chasing, she could still have been assaulted, if she was raped she’s absolutely justified in using his clout
I would do everything in my power to demean and use someone that raped me personally

#21

xSaneZ

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Somehow you've already missed my point and shown clear bias in this statement alone.

"Sinaatra might have raped someone and did abuse someone, while his ex might be clout chasing"

This isn't a valid comparison, you've not even considered the possibility (or for some reason just didnt write it) that she could be making false accusations and ultimately ruining someones life just to better her own (which is the belief of many). Do you think this doesn't happen?

Also he never admitted to 'abusing someone'? He admitted that he didn't treat her as well as he should've, imo from his response it sounded very much like that was his first time hearing that from her - but you're free to make your own judgment. If you think there is concrete evidence that he admitted to 'abuse' then you need to show me exactly what's proving that

#24

Uncleben

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She posted text messages proving that he was overly controlling and toxic, including tracking her location. Obviously I cannot access the twitlonger but there was literally definitive proof of everything she accused him minus sexual assault.
In his twitlonger, he replied that he did make mistakes and that he’s sorry he hurt her, but feels like she is misremembering some things. Deadass. That’s what he said.

#30

xSaneZ

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I do remember most of that but I feel like you are using the term 'abuse' too freely? Abuse is a very strong word that is limited (both in general and also in legal use) to very serious cases. Using it more lightly imo diminishes actual abuse cases that often end with criminal charges etc. From what I remember I do agree that he was a very shitty boyfriend - was verbally abusive, too controlling. But I think you are still painting an exxagerated picture of him? Can you not see the issue with a blanket statement like "He admitted to abuse"

I will see if it's possible to find some archives of the screenshots and double check but I really am under the belief that you are being way too harsh and specifically saying it that way to convince others with emotive language

#35

Uncleben

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Posted the original twitlonger btw, you can look at the text messages if needed

#23

Acethyr

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she could have been assaulted, or she could be lying to literally ruin someone's life

i do agree with your take that hes not fully innocent, but come on man, dont just understate his side

#25

Uncleben

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Like I said, she could have been trying to ruin his life, or she could have been genuinely assaulted and still trying to clout chase.
There are 3 scenarios here and two of them could be where Sinatra is guilty

#26

Acethyr

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what's the third scenario? i don't follow
to me there are only two, one where she is lying about him raping her so she can get clout/ or drag his reputation through the mud because of a bad relationship
or two, where he genuinely did rape her

i'm more inclined to believe the 1st one because if she is lying then someone's life could get ruined. if she isn't lying then at most she gets closure

i believe protecting someone's life is more important than closure

#27

Uncleben

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3 scenarios:
Sinatraa is innocent and she’s clout chasing
Sinatraa is guilty and she’s clout chasing for her only fans
Sinatraa is guilty, and she’s not clout chasing

Also wtf are you talking about closure? If she’s not lying then Sinatra is a rapist and should be in goddamn prison
If she isn’t lying then Sinatraa’s crime is far more serious than if she was lying (consider he still abused her)

#28

Acethyr

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that 3rd scenario is literally irrelevant, it's simply whether she's lying or not.
yeah closure as in the good that comes out of is, that the victim gets closure knowing the moron who raped them is now in jail. that's what closure means. no shit he should be in jail if she's not lying.

i'm saying that an innocent person NOT being sent to jail is more important than a guilty person being sent to jail
hence i believe sinatraa over her, neither side has concrete evidence

#29

Uncleben

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I personally am inclined to believe her for this reason
She proved there was emotional abuse and controlling toxicity, which greatly increases the chance of sexual abuse in the relationship
The vast majority of rape that is reported is accurate

And imo rape is easily among the worst possible crime alongside pedophilia. It is a more serious crime than defamation, and if she is right it has ruined her life more than Sinatraa’s has been.

#31

Acethyr

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you cannot be serious man
jumping from emotional abuse and controlling to rape is absurd, those 2 are not even in the same league. hell not even in the same fucking universe
"The vast majority of rape that is reported is accurate" in real life sure, but usually when someone comes out with an accusation of rape or sexual abuse online. it is literally almost always just fake

rape may be more serious than defamation, but that's exactly why being falsely accused is horrible. because rape is an absolutely horrible act. being accused of that literally changes the way people see you. (even your close ones). even if they believe that you're innocent, that thought of "but he was accused of this" will always be in the back of their minds. you can believe her if you want, but dont jump to shit man

continue thread →

#38

xSaneZ

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Brother I genuinely mean this from the bottom of my heart, please re-read your comment and genuinely judge whether you have displayed bias or logical inconsistency, and if so where. I encourage you to do this for your own development, you should learn about the most common fallacies

You are making so many assumptions and weird logical jumps. Like you realise there are technically thousands of different scenarios not just those 3. We are talking about those 3 because those are the ones we brought up. The two distinct categories that people are arguing for are whether sinaatra is lying or cleo is lying. You can break those 2 down into thousands of different scenarios.

e.g.

cleo could be lying to ruin his reputation so that others view him differently
cleo could be making it up purely to get clout and she likes the fame
cleo could be slandering him specifically to ruin his career
cleo could be making it up to get a following on her onlyfans to make money

do you see why your logic doesnt work?

And even if there were only 3 scenarios, where 2 = guilty. That doesn't make it more likely, this is 'Equiprobability Bias' - you have automatically assumed it's equally likely for those 3 scenarios to happen (basically impossible) when in reality 2 are derivations from the same one.

Imagine
10 scenarios to get rich: lottery, find gold, successful business, find oil, etc
2 scenarios to stay poor:
keep current job, get fired

10 vs 2 - surely its more likely to get rich!

#39

Uncleben

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I’m not suggesting these three scenarios are equally likely, in fact, going off statistics, one of the three is far less likely

I’m pointing out that even if she was clout chasing, she could be telling the truth

Posted the twitlonger for you by the way, I believe you wanted to recheck the screenshots from that

#41

xSaneZ

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I think this conversation is over, you pointed it out by using something that logically has no value

I realise theres nothing to gain from more convo

#44

Acethyr

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he ltierally just looks like an insecure loser in the screenshots
none of that points to sexual abuse or even comes CLOSE to it

hes literally just insecure and manipulative.
and he has already learned his lesson from that

continue thread →

#4

Tempest24

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well said

#6

Acethyr

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sure yeah he was a pretty shit person
but people grow, and he has made it very clear that he has grown as a person in his post

there is a MASSIVE gap between sexual abuse and being controlling or toxic

i had a horrible abusive ex and i wouldnt go around saying she doesnt deserve to do shit in her life
he is in the clear now, people gotta let this shit go

#7

SudokuDude

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Uncleben you really my goat. I never forgot when you brought up the cobalt thing. If people are going to hate, gotta be fair on hating. W take.

#8

GodAwfulGod

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I agree with you for the most part but I do want to say that the same people complaining about sinatraa playing are a little hypocritical because they complain about this but then never once talked about Okeanos getting a chance despite what he did.

I like to think that Okeanos is a better person now but it doesn't change what he did even though a lot of VLR seem to ignore what he did.

#9

Uncleben

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Slightly different, since what Sinatra was accused of doing was more serious

Okeanos apologized and had his apology accepted by his ex who even told people not to harass him if I recall correctly

#10

Monsteiur

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Idk, what they both did was equally terrible.

#11

Uncleben

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What he did was definitely terrible but I don’t think posting private nudes is bad as rape
Unacceptable nonetheless

#13

GodAwfulGod

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I'm pretty sure they were both underage though which makes it basically distributing CP

#19

cirruss

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if they are both underage, it will hardly ever be considered a serious offense. legally it is a grey area but nobody has ever been tried for something like that before

#22

GodAwfulGod

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Your spreading misinformation, there have been many cases that people have been tried for this exact same thing. Also it could have gotten him criminal charges and require him to pay damages if he was sued and found guilty.

#50

foythvlr

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well you clearly don't care about the okeanos case because if you did you would know the girl itself has forgiven him and begged people to stop bringing that up because she just wants to close that chapter out

#58

GodAwfulGod

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This doesn't change what he did regardless of whether he apologized and she accepted it. This is like if someone stole a car and then apologizing to the owner and the owner accepting that apology, it doesn't change the fact that the person still stole a car and committed a crime.

#59

foythvlr

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Yes it does what the fuck. If the person says "alright let's just forget about it" then why are you not forgetting about it lol. She is the victim, she is the one who has to think something of this, and she has the right to let the story die if she wants to

#12

kndplayer

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fuck the haters !

he is a better person than you imagine just take a look at some of his content and you will see.

nobody defends a bad person for so long just for fun.

stop hating a nice boy. He learned and paid for this

#15

cirruss

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thank you for this. you are 100% right and the follow up about her starting an only fans is also.
i respect you immensely, have a nice day

#17

Uncleben

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Thank you, someone very close to me was assaulted and I will never take rape lightly because I know how awful of a thing it is

I also find it interesting the same people that immediately believed florescent’s ex will jump through hoops to believe sinatraa is innocent , when the cases are similar

#20

cirruss

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likewise. people who are so quick to forgive sinatraa seem to not understand the gravity of the situation, and especially don't understand just how bad the legal system is when it comes to sexual assault and abuse. i mean cleo has literally been harassed for 4 years over this, and despite him admitting he was manipulative and at times abusive they will act like he has done nothing wrong.

#70

Ecoblitz

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did you immediately believe flor was guilty or innocent?

#18

bigboysam

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massive respect to you man.
side note, huge L from envy and their players for not having some integrity and opposing literal abuse

#32

Satile

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your talking like envy isnt full of racists and whatnot to begin with

#34

natalie229

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ripping it when you were 12 is way different from sexual assault

#40

Satile

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they were a little older then 12 buddy and wasnt cane also a pretty poor partner?

#43

natalie229

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he made his girlfriend do his math homework so sure he wasn't a great partner

also yes cane was 12 or 13 when he ripped it, i think it said 2021

#45

Satile

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🚽🚽🎃🎃

#52

natalie229

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?
what is a toilet pumpkin referencing

#53

Satile

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"TT"

#54

natalie229

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use your words i have no clue what you're trying to say this means nothing to me

#56

Satile

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if you dont already know you never will

#62

bigboysam

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truth nuke
but you'd hope that atleast some upper management would at the very least not platform this dude based on brand risk but fuck this whole shitty org someone free eggsterr

#42

foythvlr

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bro got insta dropped and cut every connection by the org that, to this day, still pays sick treatment after a racist misogynistic crashout on twitter, after a internal investigation from them, and i'm supposed to think hes 100% innocent or i'm the crazy one 🤣🤣🤣🤣

#48

lejargon

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Get Sinatraa on a Tier 1 Team

#57

uwukitten

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you can apply "abusive, controlling, toxic" to like half of teenage relationships man, I don't think it's worth losing your job over. it'd be one thing if it was a grown man doing it but enough time has passed for us to move on from two children being in a toxic relationship

to be clear I'm not saying he wasn't in the wrong, it just isn't major enough nor was his age high enough to justify people being outraged over him getting a job (if these two games can even count as one) over 5 years later. from what I've seen of him his persona is pretty cringe but he's definitely way more mature than back then

on a side note the "innocent till proven guilty" 🤓 party is mentally zellsis word, they'd accept Diddy if the court ruled him innocent (which it did, for most of his crimes)

#60

Disastered

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innocent till proven guilty, this drama was over 5 years ago, there is a good chance that hes changed if his friends around him support him.

#66

KiwiJuice

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bro texts like a fucking loser, who looks up to this asshole lmfao

#75

m4

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Virtue signaling. Typical Uncleben.