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IYO, who is the better agent?

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#1
Two_Percent

Tejo or Breach?
Jett or Neon?
Deadlock or KJ?
Clove or Harbor?
Vyse or Cypher?
Phoenix or Iso?

#2
cloudberry
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Breach
Neon
Deadlock
Harbor
Vyse
Phoenix

#3
Two_Percent
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Valid list although I would slightly side tejo over breach only bc kayo is a better breach in almost every way whereas tejo has no complete alternative agent

#14
cloudberry
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I put Breach over Tejo because Tejo feels quite gimmicky whereas Breach has proven he can still be used on a couple maps in today's game (not that I think there aren't better alternatives, but he definitely is still usable)

#38
Two_Percent
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Yeah but when I look at like fnc bind or bbl ascent I see tejo get a lot of value with missiles that no other agent can really get, plus he has a really good drone. Breach on the other hand while not terrible can be kinda fully replaced by kayo in any comp/map

#8
scorch_56
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I disagree on literally every choice lmao

#11
cloudberry
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To each their own, I guess. Though I don't know why you'd pick Jett over Neon in today's meta

#10
IceCreamFan
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How the FUCK is phoenix a better agent? And harbor????

#16
cloudberry
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Phoenix has one of the better flashes in the game, a ton of teamplay opportunities, and an ult that's very rewarding to farm. Iso has more carry potential but if you're having a poor game on Iso then you're not really doing much for the team

As for Clove, what can she do that Harbor can't?

#17
IceCreamFan
-6
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Don't try to backup your absolutely invalid take by an even more senseless paragraph lol. Riot has killed phoenix and harbor is only good on ascent and still idk why you'd rather not run omen. Clove is hella viable on sunset lotus

#18
cloudberry
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Brother Ascent is Harbor's worst map other than Split 😭

#37
IceCreamFan
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Nahh my absolute bad I wanted to say icebox obviously not fucking ascent I'm sorry honestly

#46
cloudberry
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Nah you're fine. Though if I'm being honest, Icebox is only considered his best map because he was played on it so often. I'd argue Bind, Abyss, and Corrode are all better maps for him but there's always been better picks

#41
Two_Percent
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Phoenix provides flashes + he has a good ult, its just hes completely outclassed by kayo, who's not even meta rn. Iso ult and shield are niche plus they require the player to actually be good (as we could see from bind today), and he doesnt provide any actual util other than maybe uppercut.

Harbor is extremely underrated imo as he provides the ability to create completely unique smokes and allows you to break up the map into as much or as little space as you want to take, plus cove is a pretty good ability on maps like icebox, pearl, and abyss where you want to get bomb down quickly. Clove is just worse than brim who is worse than asstra who is worse than omen

#4
SENfns
1
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tejo
neon
situational/they do different things
harbor
vyse on any map that isnt sunset
iso

#9
I_LOVE_LESS
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vyse is by far the best senti on sunset

#13
SENfns
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cypher covers more area informationally

#22
MrBlooBloom
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One sova and it's all gone. Teams just aren't exploiting that enough. A vyse needs time and bodies put in to destroy her util, she's way more valuable. Also everyone knows how to play against a cypher nowadays and kill trips are mostly useless since the nerf

#24
SENfns
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one yoru and its all done too
There's obviously counterplay to certain agents

you can cover a b and mid with cypher on sunset
in my opinion i don't think vyse can do allat she can hold 2 at once not all 3

#25
MrBlooBloom
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Sova is a pick that you can easily switch to on almost every map, which isn't true for yoru (as in swapping from a fade to a sova is easier than a raze to a yoru for ex)
And once again, that's cool but two shockdarts and you find yourself with 2 holes in your map which is a way bigger problem than yoru having a clone, precisely bc you can counter the clone itself. Also covering more areas is useless most of the time, look even a team like PRX who deathballs a lot on defense with 4-1s on three sites maps would rather run a vyse than a cypher despite covering less areas. That's bc cypher has 0 stopping power especially since the nerf. You can yoru clone all you want when the wall is up you can't pass

#26
SENfns
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unfortunately most teams run cypher over vyse on sunset
i think all of them run cypher actually
so do the pros know more or do you know more

#28
MrBlooBloom
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the pros play cypher bc it's easy and it's been the go to ever since the map came out. Doesn't change anything to the fact that vyse is better than cypher (also why tf are you only talking abt sunset when we're talking abt the agent overall)

#29
SENfns
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ok well if you READ properly i said Vyse is better on any map that ISNT sunset

#30
MrBlooBloom
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ok cool but that's not the subject in the first place andd I still disagree regardless

#5
Good_ping_Bad_aim
-1
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i'd disagree and say jett bc neon gets directly countered by vyse and cypher, meta sentinels right now.
if ur playing ranked and want to solo carry, u def don't want to take early dmg because of sentinel util. plus jett's dash is just a better escape and entry route than neon's dash

#6
Two_Percent
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yeah but I mean neon has a higher ceiling imo and her more flexible movement + stun and wall being better than jett smokes make her more viable at a much higher level

#54
Good_ping_Bad_aim
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depends on the map ngl. icebox, ascent, lotus, split, abyss, breeze, pearl : jett is a better option because of the verticality of maps
haven, fracture, bind, sunset is better for neon.

thing is jett is just a better and more comfortable agent on more maps than neon. it's just the tejo meta where stuns and map control with util became dominant and that's where neon shone. if we go back to how maps were played during every season you could just put in jett one-for-one everywhere and she'd be just as dominant (except maybe chamber)
better awp potential, verticality abusing, ability to just fly and never take fall damage, makes her a better option on every single open map or where the mid is more important than the site.
On a pure fragging basis jett is probably the best duelist to pick

#7
I_LOVE_LESS
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breach
neon
deadlock
clove
vyse
iso

#23
MrBlooBloom
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That's like the objectively correct list. Good job I_L_L you know ball

#12
imbetter
1
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Breach
Jett
Kj
Clove
Cypher
Iso

#15
temi
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Depends on playstyle… breach

Doesn’t matter… it depends on map and what prep work and what ur duelist is comfy on… Neon on majority of maps

KJ… deadlock means u have to run viper or another senti

Clove.

Vyse

Iso

#19
RemoveAscFromRadiantQueue
1
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I really like the older agents more, so I'd just have the earlier ones rather than the new ones personally.

Considering nowadays meta:

  • Breach.
  • Neon in most maps. Jett on Asc and maybe Haven?
  • Killjoy. I really don't like Deadlock, even as a second sentinel, judge me.
  • As Icebox was removed, Clove, but it's troll if you're not PRX on Lotus anyways, don't pick this shit in ranked.
  • 50/50 really, but Vyse is better on more maps and is considerably way more OP on those maps (specially new maps like Lotus and Corrode, abusing Chamber synergy on them is really strong right now).
  • Both are great as secong duelist, I'd rather having Phoenix for support, but Iso is the only one usable, specially in Haven or Lotus (just pick Reyna tbh).
#21
Galactc
1
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Reyna is not even close to both phoenix and iso throw pick

#36
RemoveAscFromRadiantQueue
2
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It was a joke to how people culturally insta pick Reyna, but yeah, Iso and Phoenix definetly agregate way more value to the team (I have tried Phoenix in Asc recently and I understand people who play with it with molotov lineups and shit on some 4fun vibes).

#20
Galactc
0
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+

Tejo
Jett
Kj
Clove
Vyse
Pheonix

#27
ninjaturtle
0
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Breach
Neon
KJ
Harbor
Vyse (I'm a Vyse main so some bias here)
Iso

#42
Two_Percent
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w vyse mains love to see it

#49
ninjaturtle
1
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I just love trapping enemies with my wall, making them run through thorns full flashed as they just accept their fate and surrender to me 😈

And then next round they just use a Yoru clone to bait it out...

#33
Bernazoka
1
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+

Tejo
Neon
Deadlock
Harbor
Vyse
Iso

#35
SudokuDude
0
Frags
+

Breach
Neon
KJ
Clove
Vyse
Iso

#47
Anguibok
2
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Tejo and Breach where both horrible, Tejo was under 50% NMWR before his nerf

#52
Two_Percent
0
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I mean omen currently is averaging about an 80% pick rate across all regions and hes sitting right under 50% as well... when an agent becomes the meta and everyone plays them, the teams that dont fundamentally have to change their playstyle and agent comps to counter what is meta, and usually the teams that do that find very niche success because of the extremely specific way they play. For example, t1 found success playing heavy contact rounds and holding hard off angles, which worked really well against teams that formulated comps around the tejo, but later when teams exploited the large holes in their playstyle they fell apart.

tldr NMWR doesnt matter if its like 1-2% above or below 50%

#55
Anguibok
0
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Nah people just overestimate him and didn't understand it, nobody did a "anti Tejo plan". Tejo is good for team like G2 with amazing fundamentals, wish isn't the case for other team, too many T1 team are only able to saturate a site with 5 ppl,

tldr NMWR does matter if the pvalue is under 0.05. Tejo was at 47% NMWR anyway

#48
kfan4238173
0
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+

Breach
Neon
KJ
Harbor
Vyse
Iso

#50
Frogger0_0
0
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+

Tejo or Breach? Breach
Jett or Neon? Neon
Deadlock or KJ? Deadlock
Clove or Harbor? Clove
Vyse or Cypher? Cypher
Phoenix or Iso? Iso

#51
GarbanzoEnjoyer
0
Frags
+

Tejo
Jett
Deadlock
Clove in ranked, Harbor in pro
Cypher in ranked, Vyse in pro
Phoenix

#56
bombarillo
0
Frags
+

Breach
Neon
KJ
Harbor
Vyse
Iso

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