I can see ur point, but don’t you think winning a 12 team masters is more impressive than an 8 team one for an example? Do you think winning a round robin format where you have to beat all the other teams (for an example, masters doesn’t use this) is more impressive than a single elim bracket? (Due to lucky bracket chance?)

I don’t get what ur point is. I’m arguing two masters is worth more than one champs. There both international tournaments so I don’t get why your point applies.

Edg got grouped at Madrid and went winless at Shanghai. No way were they the best team of all of 2024, wtf

No, because a regional tournament is against every single tier1 team in ur region, including the shitty ones. Masters or champions is against the best teams from each region across the world.

Champs doesn’t give free playoffs, has more competition, and is at the end of the year (more time for rosters to practice and improve/adapt to meta). Surely that makes it more impressive?

It’s more impressive than a masters, but surely two masters is more impressive than one champions? Especially in a game like valo where consistency is very difficult.

Why does viewership matter. That’s like saying beating sen matters more or is more impressive than beating fnc because the sen match had more viewers

Idk about this take. EDG we’re definitely not 2024’s best team, ascend we’re definitely not 2021’s best team, EG we’re definitely not 2023’s best team, and you could even slightly argue loud weren’t 2022’s best team

Why so? Winning 2 masters means you were the best team in the world for 2/3rds of the year as opposed to 1/3 of the year. Also, it’s way easier to fluke one tournament win/run than two tournaments wins/runs, especially since winning paints a huge target on your back.

I saw carrotstix’s thread, which inspired me to ask this question. How much do y’all value a champs win compared to a masters? I’ve always thought of it as 1.5 masters equivalent.

Idk what that means

Agreed as well. I wasn’t sure how his fragging would hold up when he got picked up from m80 cause his initiator fragging was just okay even in t2, but when he played senti for sen he looked like their MVP (fragging nearly as well as tekkenz while calling)

Yay. His peak was nearly an entire year, even when his teammates had shaky games. Alfajer and Leo are good shouts as well.

I think Johnqt is doing it because he used to main initiator and still does it in ranked. However, especially considering their midrounder zellsis is a good init, I do think he should play senti

Imagine if they got nats instead of elite. Would never happen, but I can always dream. Nats + Eng reunion 😭

Think the gap in level of play between 2022 and 2024/25 is a bit too far to justify that, especially considering how dominant sentinels and t1’s form were at those tournaments despite how they fell off after. I’m not sure angel would be able to outcall and beat them if they played.

I can see ur point, but I’d honestly pick fnc lock-in to beat geng. I think I’ll move them above prx for now tho.

Alfajer chron and Leo had insane form, so I’d pick them to beat any team on this list. My ranking is a combination of how good the team actually is and the comp they beat. I see ur point tho.

Additionally, fns is a good example of the flaws of igling while playing senti. Because he is so focused on calling, he never takes risks on senti. As a result, nrg really struggled with information on defense because fns never pushed up and always played retake = very poor def round win rate.

Disclaimer; Johnqt should play sentinel, not init imo because his sentinel is one of the best in the world even while calling.

When your playing sentinel, your often lurking on attack or anchoring on defense. This means you’re almost always on the weak side regardless of t or ct side. Playing the weak side means you need to be really aware and focused on ur crosshair; if you make a mistake and die on defense, you give up ur entire site. On attack, your team loses crucial map control if you die for free. This is quite difficult to do while also calling and looking at minimap.

On initiator, on the other hand, your playing with the group, so your teammates can prevent you from being caught of guard while mentally distracted or looking at minimap. You also don’t need to win 1v1s, as you can either get trade kills or get traded. Additionally, actually being there for retakes/site execs/floods allows you to micromanage utility, your teammates, and the timing. If your on the other side of the map, your totally reliant on ur teammates comms and minimap info for this part.

This is why a lot of IGLs want to play init. I don’t think it suits all of them, but it does make sense

Really stupid. Until stage 1 they literally didn’t lose one match with sylvan, dude put up ridiculous assists on controller (not even initiator, meaning his astra suck/stun and omen blinds got insane value) and clutched so many big rounds

Would have put edg a bit higher due to 2024 being higher level than 2022, but I’d prolly pick prime loud to beat prime edg (unless kk drops 111)

Sentinels at Madrid and t1 at Bangkok are a bit low due to what the teams did after they won the tourney, as well as several of the rosters at the tournament failing to make lans again for the rest of the year or missing/subbing players.

1. Fnatic Tokyo (beat EG #2 and stomped Prx #3 and NRG #4)
2. EG 23 Champs (beat #2 PRX, #3 LOUD, but get deducted a bit since they didn’t beat fnc. This is the most stacked top 4 ever imo.)
3. LOUD 22 Champs (beat prime optic twice, beat DRX #3)
4. EDG 24 Champs (beat TH #2, Leviatan #3, and Sentinels #4)
5. FNC Lock//In (deducted a bit due to beating mostly newer rosters and almost losing to a heavily nerfed loud. Didn’t hit prime till later, especially Alfajer)
6. Shanghai GENG
7. PRX Toronto (need to see how it ages)
8. Sentinels Madrid
9. T1 Bangkok
10. FPX Copenhagen
11. Optic Reykjavik
12. Gambit Berlin
13. Acend Champs 21
14. Sentinels Reykjavik

Fut is axing the whole roster before they let go of xeus

Mako leaf Jemkin riens Trent maybe

DRX being higher than geng gambit heretics t1 etc when they’ve never placed higher than 3rd is crazy

The crowd was very disappointing imo. I had high expectations after the la crowd but my god that was disappointing. At least champs Paris will likely have an amazing crowd.

Leo kinda won them map 1 and 2, especially fracture

The crowd is horrendous I agree
Champs Paris will be cinema if you know anything about French valo crowds

Alfajer might be the best player ever in bo5s, check his previous performances it’s actually unreal

He’s the greatest igl of all time yes

It’s cause he’s shaky aim but high first bullet accuracy
That’s why he has good pistols, Jett knives, and guardian, but struggles on rifle
Vs someone like Davai who’s very calm and excels on rifles as a result

He’s been kinda shaky recently (like before Toronto) and patmens impact is insane

Forsaken, jingg, patmen/davai tie, and then something

You and sushi are literally the same person it’s actually impressive

Might be cooked prx are a t side team and fnc let them get 4 defense lotus

It’s ok he makes up for it by cheering up smth

He’s more like asuna

Cmon mate don’t make fun of peoples appearances

Their 20 sec left execs make my butt clench tho

… oh no

Also winning pistol rounds is a skill, pistol aim and rifle aim are different and pistol aim is very important in a round with minimal utility

One of the most braindead things in this fuck ass game, but chron didn’t get Berlin mvp tbf

Unless they changed ACS utility and time don’t affect ACS
Also, sort stats by ACS and the top is nearly all duelists, even duelist who haven’t actually played that well in the tournament

Don’t think he should be tournament mvp given that forsaken was as good or better on both maps prx actually won and was overall better across the tournament
He’s Al most certainly finals mvp tho

Nah Jinggg was to busy tping into the middle of the open after missing his paranoia on a map with high verticality, prx didn’t deserve icebox

Big game player dude has been unreal these last few matches
Have a feeling he’s about to rob forsaken of mvp

ACS doesn’t matter as much when your an aggressive duelist
You could play mid and as long as ur aggro you’ll end up high ACS

They clown him because they care and support their team. This is like saying you can’t criticize something you care about/like