so this is about the ethics of watching EWC and such, i wont watch it, just my personal choice and its a mickey mouse
with that said, i watched most of the emirates NBA cup which is sponsored by the emirates airline. the emirates airline is a subsidiary of The Emirates Group, which is a subsidiary of the Dubai government's investment company, Investment Corporation of Dubai (took this from wikipedia so grain of salt) so it has direct connections to the UAE which is funding proxy wars across africa and the middle east. would you say the consumption of one of these but not the other is hypocritical or rather redundant. obviously people can pick and choose what they consume based on ethics and stuff but both are bad so, just looking for opinions
am i hypocritical
u are being hypocritical but at the end of the day, its ur choice on what u want to watch.
i think anyone not watching ewc is silly, you give saudi what? 4 cents? it realistically has 0 impact on the world and nobody thinks any differently of saudi for hosting it. it's more valorant games, everyone complains, not enough events not enough events and now we have one with a very strong format (only 3 cn teams), and everyone complains because they don't like where it's hosted? we host events in china, in america, if riot hosted masters riyadh people will still watch but because its ewc riyadh yall want to say you don't watch? the quality of games are just as high, its tier 1 vs tier 1, and its literally just a chance to watch more of your favorite team lose
Saudi doesnt do it for the money, they do it so it covers up any atrocities they might or have done. Less popularity will always impact saudis attempt to sportwashing more than money does.
I personally dont watch EWC, because I just dont care about the results of it, but if someone draws a moral line at sportwashing thats totally okay.
They said the same thing when Qatar hosted the world cup and beijing hosted the olympics in 2008. Nothing really changed.
I mean you can say that about literally any country with any famous incident or event. Every country has its problems and every country benefits from good publicity.
also dont get what you mean with the "nothing really changed"
its not about the money theyre earning from such, its about the popularity and ability to boast numbers and continue to sportswash. also the EWC is DIRECTLY funded by the saudi government which adds mroe ethical concerns compared to other such instances of corruption and immorality. i get your point tho
ppl calling EWC mickey as if the all teams arent participating and trying is hilarious
you cant call a tournament mickey/insignificant just cuz u disagree with how/why it is held. "Mickey mouse" has a different definition
most delusional thing I've ever read
objectively, a fair bo1 is less mickey than a double map ban grand final (VCT).
if ur calling a fair bo1 mickey, ur calling most VCT grand finals mickey
i think its mickey cause it wasnt on LAN personally, one of the stages had like twice the ping of the other iirc
bo1s are mickey and any cs fan will tell u that
dgmw i think double map ban is dumb but this does not change the fact that single elim and bo1s are mickey in the terms of val tournaments
i think talking about it every time the event comes up is more important than not watching it to be honest, reminding people why they run the event every time is worthwhile, more than anything i think bringing the conversation up every time is what matters, their goal is to make people like them and forget about their atrocities, just bring up the atrocities every time someone brings up the event to minimise that impact
In a sense yes, it is hypocritical but in the end whatever you do in life will support some sort of morally wrong action. Making a distinction of where you draw the line is totally fine.
counter point would be that
americans esports should be boycotted the same way then
they have done more harm to human rights then anybody else
thats what I mean, "whatever you do in life will support some sort of morally wrong action" Just living life in america supports atrocities in some way. From watching sports to buying a burger, they all lead to the goverment being allowed to do more harm. Thats why I said despite it being hypocritical you have to draw the line somewhere. Where you draw it specifically doesnt really matter
my bad
counterpoint was to the ppl hating on ewc not gamble nats
but events hosted by a country and in a country will have similar effects
incrase tourism
more eyeballs on the country
so if we are gonna hate saudi for ewc
then boycott the world cup
what point are you exactly countering? #5 has stated "in the end whatever you do in life will support some sort of morally wrong action"
also, the us government ain't directly funding the tournaments to make people forget what they have done
as sideshow puts it, there’s a difference between a tournament being hosted in a country and a tournament being hosted by a country.
u can choose what u want, it doesn’t matter as much u think in the grand scheme of things.
if were being real, the point is to sportswash saudi identity. so if you consume it but are actively aware of this fact (resist the sportwash) and arent monetarily supporting in any way (adblocker, watching unofficial costreams etc) i think the act of watching the games themselves becomes pretty benign. you just treat it as any other val match
same applies to the emirates cup thing imo, there is no benefit to the sportwashing if u resist mentally and monetarily, its just a generic game
Well watching the games up the popularity and hence flood searches (more people watching -> more searches -> less about saudi atrocities) which is the main reason for EWC or any sportswashing. its less about the individual impact, and more how you can influence someone else. Same concept with gambling, you can run a gambling sponser and not partake in gambling but someone else not aware of the situation will get affected by said sponser.
yeah i agree, which is why i think its important to only watch unofficial costreams that dont get counted in viewer metrics. if such a stream does not exist i think it is somewhat immoral to even watch ewc at all
it really depends the saudi esports federation was directly founded by the crown prince of the country and is part of an large scale inititave to diversify from oil revenue that has had over 20000 work related deaths since 2017, the emirates airline is first and foremost a business designed to make money, hence why the advertise, the EWC is by design not intended to make money, hell the precurser gamers8 was a charity, the OBJECTIVE entire point of the tournament is to improve peoples thoughts and feelings about the goverment of the country, like, without question that is what its for, the emirates group is still functionally just a company, its one funded and run by the same people, but ultimately the goal of the company is to make money, the GOAL of the EWC and saudi esports federation is objectively to improve peoples opinions of the goverment, personally idc if you watch it or dont, just keep in mind whatever face they show the ppl at the event is the face their showing with the singular goal of improving peoples opinions of them
its basically what others have said, you are free to decide what you do; at the end of the day, you are taking part in some sort of morally wrong action
While i dislike the idea of the rapid investment directly from a government and start owning the leagues (the same reason why despite liking the players of man city and psg, i dislike the clubs), i still watch and enjoy the games. It is so because wherever you see the involvement will be there.
But watching UAE owned Man City play at "Etihad" in the "Emirates FA Cup", won't change my perception of the government; and they are not really concerned about huge profits now.
You know, no matter what almost the entire world watches the FIFA world cup, be it held at Qatar or Russia or now to be held at USA
If you pick and choose what cruelty and corruptness you allow into your lives and then boycott the EWC I think you're a hypocrite but that is very normal nowadays.
- If you're not watching EWC because of moral reasons I find it hypocritical just like you stated there are so many things you use in your day to day life that is either corrupt or fucked up in some way but for some reason EWC is where you draw the line?
If you're going to boycott EWC then do your research on your daily products and clothing and everything you use and have the same views on them let's be consistent.
- I never understand why people care whether it's a mickey mouse or not and how you judge it with all due respect all of you are piss randoms/me included and your opinions on the quality of the tournament means nothing. It's a tournament with all of the best teams of each region going due to fighting for your spot. It has a massive prize pool that helps both the players and the ORGs in a shitty money sinkhole of an esport. And the tournament having a trophy gives something the teams to fight for aswell as the fat prizepool. Whether it's a mickey or not doesn't mean fuck all just watch the tournament for your favorite player/teams and enjoy.
I will be watching every game if possible I have no reason to virtue signal and act high and mighty while prob using products from countries still abusing their workers etc etc
My Opinion do what you like either way C9 v ENVY later and EG v SEN and I'll be 100% watching if those fuckers stream the game.
And if you want to be a hypocrite that's fine if you're aware that you're doing it everyone cares more for some cruelty and corruptness than others and most of the time if it doesn't directly impact them they don't give a fuck.
sanks for the reply
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I do actually agree to an extent, I dont apply this principle onto others but in a recent class ive been learning about the things we use in day to day life and their origin and how you can obtain fair trade and support farmers and local businesses to consume these product. With that said, the direct involvement of the saudi regime versus the products in day to day life being companies is a pretty large distinction.
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I refrain from watching the tournement because how it would add to metrics which would be used to further push sportswashing onto those uninformed
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i dont care if someone watches as long as they acknowledges and know what saudi has done and is doing, this events purpose is to shift perception and as long as youre aware of that and the crimes saudi commited, sure, idc
I get your point, but at the end of the day, you HAVE to pick and choose cruelty and corruption. Simply just living will eventually support some sort of cruelty and corruption, there has to be a point where you draw the line, if people draw the line earlier than others thats fine. So just because you boycott EWC doesnt mean you have to look into different products etc. In some sense, anything you do or choose is hypocritical even if only slightly
This only reminds me of one of my friends when he pointed out where I get my shoes from. It's an eye opener when I started becoming more vocal about Israel a few years back (along with the Uyghur situation).
Last year, I was constantly getting downvoted for calling out virtue signalers ngl lol but I understand where they're coming from.
i mean we always hear about how bad these practices are in the cocoa industry and shoes and such but when you watch the documentaries with no censoring or sugar coating it is really eye opening for sure.
fair trade items arent as expensive as people like to believe, however the label of fair trade has been bastardized a bit and requires a lot more looking into. it is very interesting
I get you. I'd be hypocrite if I don't watch it. I've always been consistent on calling out bullshit and it's not just Saudi.
I was surprised yesterday finding out Sideshow refused to go to Shanghai for the same reasons I saw what was going on in China. He's not a virtue signaler. Actually a W guy for that.
Most of us are watching US based sports and esports, and we all know how close the US and wars are.
Is it a direct benefit or detriment to anyone if you specifically decide to watch something?
I understand wanting to boycott something because of morals/ideals but you deciding to watch a basketball tournament will never have consequences on the Sudanese civil war, for instance. Same thing with EWC... whether or not you choose to watch it, you have to acknowledge that you can't change the sponsors, nor the broadcasting deals, nor any of the background information behind the tournament, and that once you accept all of this, all it really is is a midseason tournament.
If you don't want to watch, feel free. If you want to watch but you feel bad about it, feel free to donate to a charity or cause or anything that would help fight against whatever you believe these governments are doing, doing which would have infinitely more impact than choosing not to add a single viewer to these tournaments
^ excellent take on the impact side of things. While yes technically you are adding to the money or popularity or whatever, the actual impact is minuscule and doesnt matter in the long run. Doing this is purely from a moral aspect and not an impact aspect. If you truly wish to make a change or impact something, donate to charity relating to the issues
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