Forsaken | VLR.gg

#1

DBStudios

I know one of his most glazed areas is that he has the deepest agent pool out of anyone but why is this one of the things people use when trying to tie him into the GOAT conversation?

Having the deepest agent pool doesn't make you the greatest of all time, plus he has never been the greatest in a certain role (duelist, sentinel, initiator, smoke) ever in his career which is one of the things we should consider when talking about GOATs. Being a jack of all trades and master of none shouldn't be an argument for the greatest of all time. If you want examples, Curry is in the goat debate in Basketball because he is the best shooter of all time, Ronaldo is also in the goat debate in Football because he's the best goal scorer of all time.

#2

danii1

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Doesn't matter what role he plays. The plays he makes, is what puts him in the goat conversation. He singlehandedly wins more solo rounds than any player in the world.

#6

DBStudios

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That's not what I'm talking about at all? His plays can be analyzed case by case but even then that's not enough to make someone the goat and also not what I'm talking about here. I'm just confused on why one of the main reasons people consider him the goat is because of his deep agent pool and flexibility when he has never been the greatest of a role.

#9

danii1

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It's cuz of how impactful he is on every role and putting up numbers on every agent in the game is insane. You don't need to be the greatest on a role to be the goat, he's also incredible smart, which doesn't necessarily mean he's got to be the greatest in the role. it's an FPS game and you shoot people and take timings. Let me ask u this. Would you put chronicle in as one of the goats? And if so then why except the fact that he has more trophies than F0rsakeN.

#10

DBStudios

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I think that trophies as a metric is a terrible comparison when talking about goats as Chronicle was never the greatest on his team in any trophy run. However, the reason why he is up there for me is because he was actually one of the greatest at his role at certain times during his career. During 2023 he was one of the best support players in the world and also was one of the best smokes players in 2021, the trophies are just a cherry on top that signify why he should even be considered.

#27

vibemerchant_25

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Forsaken rn looks like one of the best smokes players in the world. He's been one of the best duelists in the world before. His performances back on yoru and even jett when something couldn't make tokyo were just insane. He's also been a very solid sentinel at times (his kj was good and his cypher was at least quite unique). He had one of the most unique harbors in the world.

He might not be the absolute best at everything but when he hits his stride there are very few people who can beat him and he's doing this while juggling all kinds of roles. Also his game iq is insane sometimes. That tp into spawn yesterday is an insane example, how many people think of doing that in a split second decision in a do or die round. That's just absurd imo.

#32

danii1

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But I don't get it. It's a shooter game, why do we have to base a goat off of the roles instead of the impact they have on the team and how they win. He's obviously the most impactful player from any team right now. (Excluding marteen)

#34

vibemerchant_25

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Absolutely no shade to marteen. He's absolutely insane but he has a relatively easier job considering his job on every map is the exact same. They always run astra and he has to just farm kills and get good ult value. Not to say that its easy but his expectations are set and he knows what he needs to do. Forsaken has been doing similar shit on all kinds of weird ass agents. I did not expect him to lock viper and lurk into sites or just run in and get 4. I did not expect our terrible corrode performance against G2 to go away just by letting forsaken troll (granted G2 trolled a lot as well)

#41

archetype

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reducing marteen's impact to "bro is just good at doing his job" is crazy. f0rsakeN glazers man. he's the most valuable player in the world and it still isn't enough for some people. marteen is the best player in the world, nobody is doing the shit he is doing, f0rsaken comes a close 2nd.

#53

HammerDJ

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agreed, rn, marteen looks like the best player itw

#64

vibemerchant_25

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Why can't they both be good? I never meant to take away from anything marteen is doing. I have no idea why people keep assuming I can only glaze one. Marteen is insane and without taking anything away from him forsaken is insane too. I just find it super fun to watch them both play. I'm a longtime paper rex fan and I have no idea about marteen apart from his recent form. If I sound biased it's literally just lack of knowledge on marteen apart from what he's done this year.

#68

archetype

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they are both good. you're the one saying "marteen is good BUT" though

#52

HammerDJ

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the M in GentleM8s stands for Marteen the way he's solocarrying like a fucking raid boss

#35

Kaikoh123

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"This message has been deleted"

#3

InYourDreams

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I don’t understand what you are gonna do with wide agent pool when only plays a few

#4

archetype

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you're right kangkang is actually the goat

#11

DBStudios

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I know this is ragebait but at least kangkang can be considered one of the greatest op players of all time 😭

#12

coltyyy

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used to be. btw. fell off so hard after that champs run

#13

CrackedDuelist

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his op is still one of the most impactful

#5

pztzy

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Ur right KANGKANG IS THE GOAT, breakng kil record on champs final is badaas
Edgwin

#7

HammerDJ

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Because someone being touted as the Greatest of All Time better display the kind of range, understanding and flexibility that comes with mastery of a deep pool..

I'm not saying that f0rsaken is the best player itw on every role, but the fact that he can function as a wildcard that needs very little to integrate into any comp and STILL consistently deliver at a high level.. now that deserves a mention and deserves consideration - only in addition to everything else he does

As for your comparisons to football and baskieball. Yk, basketball has gotten more and more positionless over the years.. anyone can play almost any role.. but Valo isn't exactly like that, defined roles, expectations and playstyles depending on the agents you pick matters. That's why being a jack of all trades in Valo is more impactful than in typical sports.

But you already knew that :)

#17

1One1

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This!

Unlike some player who are 9.5/10 for certain agent
Forsaken is 8-8.5/10 for almost every single agent

#21

DBStudios

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I agree with the reply before yours that valorant's metric of determining a goat is going to be different than other sports/esports. But forsaken is not 8-8.5/10 on a good majority of his agents though, he has standouts for both good and bad but there are more bad than good standouts.

#54

HammerDJ

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Alright, so which agents do you feel f0rsaken shits the bed with? or say, performs painfully mediocre on?

From what you've seen ofc, just asking you for agents you believe his performance suffers scoring below an 8/10 rating

#8

SIXSEVEN67

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ya you right, kangkung is the real goat🗿

#14

xDazeline

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if you're using ronaldo, use messi too. messi is also on the goat debate while not being the best goalscorer, or assister, or freekick taker, etc etc. but all those good skills combined, makes him one of the (if not the) best playmaker. that's what f0rsaken is basically, the playmaker.

#16

DBStudios

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Your statement about Messi is just wrong, sure he's credited with very very good playmaking but more than that some of the reasons he's in the goat conversation is due to having the highest NPGA/90 and is also the greatest assister of all time.

#15

mojhito5

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who tf has curry in the goat convo???

#18

mojhito5

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also jokic who can do anything on the court (except playing good defense) is the best player in the nba of this decade, so there's your nba comparison with jason if you want it

#22

DBStudios

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A lot of people have curry in the goat conversation as he's the greatest shooter of all time. Also jokic is the greatest passing and most efficient offensive center in NBA history, far different than what Forsaken is considered in valorant.

#47

mojhito5

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when mj and lebron exist its just diabolical to have curry in your goat convo simply cuz he's the greatest shooter. jokic is the best passer i agree, and he is very efficient, but these things on their own dont make you the best player in the nba, it is the accumulation of these skills in one person that elevate them from the rest, which is something we see in f0rsaken and praise him for. jokic being the best passer in the nba is basically the same thing as jason's ability to play any agent in the game, as they both elevate the ceiling of the players around them by making them play in a playstyle they are comfortable with.

#39

sharko0

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jokic best player in nba or the best flopper in nba

#43

mojhito5

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best player obv

#45

HammerDJ

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curry non-believers in the big 26 🥀🥀🥀

#48

mojhito5

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there is no universe where curry can stand above either mj or lebron in the goat convo

#50

HammerDJ

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fair, that's mb.. keep forgetting that the word GOAT means a singular player vs. a tier which is what the common use has become (e.g. "GOAT rankings")

do I think curry is the #1 baskie player of all time? nah, definitely not

do I think he is gamechanging and an icon of pure offensive skill and consistency that lands him in the top 5 of the best to ever do it, DEFINITELY

#51

mojhito5

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yeah thats just facts. i think he is top 5 too definitely

#19

Justsomebum

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u wudn't have to be asking all this if you just watched his games

watching him live, dropping 35 in a map playing veto for the first time in his career, u realize there's levels to ts

#20

DBStudios

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I never said that he wasn't good, he's still a very good player, I just don't understand why people think having the deepest agent pool automatically puts him into the goat conversation or even some delusion people think it makes him the goat solely based off of that.

#29

SleepyBear

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How is that so hard to understand lol ,do you actually play the game? May I ask what rank you are?

#74

DBStudios

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Diamond 1 currently since I haven't played in a while and I was ascendent 2 peak

#75

rexrex

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sure.

#76

DBStudios

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https://tracker.gg/valorant/profile/riot/DBStudios%238782/overview?platform=pc&playlist=competitive&season=3ea2b318-423b-cf86-25da-7cbb0eefbe2d

Why would I need to lie lmfao? Lets see what you have to say now

#77

rexrex

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damn ure him

#23

SENfns

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yeah cuz aspas is the goat

#24

Twentytwo

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I think the reason forsaken is being glazed this much is that few players can do what he does consistently, i think it is a little recency bias from people to call him the goat, but i defo think he's top 5 player oat

#25

archetype

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you ain't seen prime jessievash

#26

Twentytwo

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Ceo should be worried about being kicked out of the family business

#33

gold2peak

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Top 5 pacific possibly

#28

Ryukk

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Am i wrong if i said the most haters of f0rsaken is cn peoples? They always call him monkey every time he appears

#30

pztzy

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taiwan incident

#31

vibemerchant_25

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That's kinda crazy considering how PRX are very good friends with EDG.

#36

californialove

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Curry isn’t even in top 5 GOAT debates & how many World Cups does Ronaldo have over Messi again? Stick to Valorant bro😂😂

#46

HammerDJ

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curry status deniers pmo 🥀🥀🥀🥀

bro he single-handedly changed the way the league played and there isn't a single NBA player that comes close to the level of skill he displays

the only debate around Curry should be if he makes it into the top 2 or top 3, he's top 5 GOAT easy

#37

itoktobenotok

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If Forsaken is not in the debate of GREATEST OF ALL TIME then who else tf deserves
HE NOT THE GREASTEST BECAUSE OF HIS ABUNTDANT AGENT POOL OR PLAYSTYLE THAT JUST THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE GOAT. HE IS THE GREASTEST BECAUSE:

One of player to have the longest career in pro play from day one vct
--> The seasoned battle-hardened veteran
One of the most consistent career you have ever seen, help PRX to usually finish high top in international
--> "Form is temporary, class is permanent." - Sir Alex FerGOATson
Won at least an international
--> Stand in the temple of legends

Unlike KK who shining bright for a moment then choke to oblivion

#42

VailLegolas

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Well said i like that sir alex word even though im on rival team but his word is true, forsaken he is class.

#38

lalapalooza

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"Being a jack of all trades and master of none shouldn't be an argument for the greatest of all time"
you dont become one of the best at something without being a master at a trade you fuckin imbecile

#40

Reznor

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forsaken duelist pool is enough clears kangkang

#44

foythvlr

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plus he has never been the greatest in a certain role

He might be the best controller in the world literally right now + people did discuss him as best yoru back in the day

Also its funny cause this also applies to Chronicle and hes still in the conversation (as he should be)

#66

vibemerchant_25

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Honestly the only reason he wasn't in the best yoru convo for a while cause he didn't play yoru for a while but looking at his breeze gameplay I'd say he's maintained his form on that agent even though they gutted yoru multiple times since he last played it.

#49

aketrps

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name one person that can do what he does

#57

HammerDJ

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you should also list the overwhelming amount of things he does for the team

can flex with literally any agent in the game

clever, oppressive util usage on picked agents

GOAT-tier clutcher

can consistently gift PRX 1-2 hero rounds per half

IGLs

hypeman / vibesetter

consistent fragging on every map

crazy game IQ

and to top it all off, he does this in a team whose playstyle has been repeatedly called the most dynamic, chaotic and unpredictable in VCT as a whole

Before you deny my claims (and yes deny my glaze), ask yourself this.. how many times have you been on the edge of your seat when watching your team go up against f0rsaken in a 1vX? The fact that he can make you wonder, consider that the round is still very losable speaks volumes. And his IGLing, they have shown their ability to outplay and outcall teams like TL, FNC, G2, NRG, etc. teams that receive much praise for their macroplay. Think about all the times you call bullshit on f0rsaken just bagging 3 or 4 kills and winning the round in a way that almost feels unearned. Think about his TP to spawn against NRG in the swiss at Santiago 2026, think about his defuse against Sen at Toronto 25..

All eSports players are given the same opportunities as f0rsaken, if he's the only one pulling off those flashy plays consistently.. you might have to concede your argument about him being a highlight merchant and nothing more.

my GOATSAKEN is HIM - BIG TIGERRRRR 🐯🐯🐯🐯

#67

itoktobenotok

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HE IS THE ONLY MAN IN THE WORLD THAT HAVE THE AURA TO COMMENT ON ALFAJER:
"FAREWELL 'STRONGEST FLEX’. TURNS OUT YOU WERE LUCKY TO BE BORN IN AN ERA WHEN I WASN'T AROUND."
🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

#69

HammerDJ

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oml my goat a little toxic lmaoooooo

aura farmed tho

#55

Langacune

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most overrated pro ever

#56

s0mebody

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If I had a dollar everytime someone compares esports to traditional sports... 🥀

#58

HammerDJ

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REAL lmao

#59

Wolfed

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first of all, no one thinks forsaken is actually the goat.

secondly, the people that rate him highly rate him like that because of his performance on many different roles - not just because he plays many roles. being a jack of all trades is indeed a metric of being great at the game - you are great in more than one dimension. For example, I don’t see Mazino in the goat conversation just because he has played many different agents throughout his career

#60

HammerDJ

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I must be no one, coz I think he actually is the goat

who do you think is the goat?

(don't say flair)

#61

Wolfed

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aspas and alfajer clear him in consistent high level performances

#62

Langacune

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chronicle mogs him too

#63

HammerDJ

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the beautiful thing about discussion, is that we can agree to disagree :)

thank u for your opinion king

#65

Wolfed

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why do you think aspas is NOT the goat?

#70

HammerDJ

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one major reason is the same reason this thread is open - versatility
in addition to that, he IGLs

IMO, both can carry teams, but f0rsaken has shown us a myriad methods he can employ to do the same thing aspas does by taking space and tapping heads (which is no-joke, not denying the impact or the weight of that) - it really does come to me favoring a jack of all trades vs. a master of one

no shade, but how good/bad do you think aspas's agent pool versatility is? he doesn't need to be a flex, but has bro at least played Yoru?

that and I'm a bit biased coz I've been a PRX fan since Reykjavik 2021

#72

Wolfed

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aspas’ agent pool is honestly weak and dissappointing - but it doesn’t take away from the fact that he’s been Valorant’s final boss for multiple years now, for me

#73

HammerDJ

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Big agree ✓

Edit: do Aspas fans ever fantasize about him expanding his pool while continuing to belt teams like he does rn?

Or maybe even a Tenz-esque pivot? What do the aspassers think?

#78

Punish3rlp

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"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times"

Bruce lee

#79

HammerDJ

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big big true from a legend..

But Bruce Lee did not 1v1 anyone in Valo.. nor did he know we'd extrapolate his quotes to eSports.. I wonder what he'd think about that tho

#71

ItsJustCheezwhiz

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I think it's not just that he has a deep agent pool, but more to do with how CREATIVE he is on those agents. I remember watching him play Harbor and Cypher back in the day and he just played it a lot differently compared to other people both within APAC and globally. And if you put him head to head against an initiator one trick "goat", I would say that f0rsaken could potentially have just as much impact in game if not more.