Seen a lot more people including Ethan now in the goat convo
I’m curious, what is your criteria for GOAT?
Kinda funny, I feel a lot of people select a goat and then change their standards to justify their goat, rather than create standards and then pick a player that satisfies them.
Let’s say you have two people with the same number of champs wins. What then?
Well in the six years since release there's only been one (Ethan) player to win Champs twice so the odds are that won't happen for awhile.
exactly my point + valorant doesn't have a true GOAT contender aside from Ethan
Wouldn’t you say Ethan is quite a weak goat though? He doesn’t have any trophies other than the champs wins, so the moment another player has two champs wins he’s no longer the goat?
Well I would say skill-wise it's Aspas and for major accomplishments it's Ethan.
the fact that a player is proficient even in constantly shifting metas and still has amazing individual skill should be considered the GOAT imo
But Ethan hasn’t been good across the shifting metas? He’s only really been good in two of them (viper harbor, then post tejo meta)
Out of curiosity, would you have the acend or t1 players higher than the g2 players?
yeah but he still hasn't had any performances where he didn't get over 1.0 rating
There’s quite a few champs winners on good teams though, such as Aspas and jawgemo and the nrg boys. I wouldn’t be shocked to see mibr win champs for an example.
MIBR is most likely getting top 3 but not winning champs
I see PRX + LEV being the grand finalists
A crazy take, considering the year hasn’t even started
I wouldn’t have thought fnc and nrg would be finalists at the start of 2025
but I don't see much changes tbf, I get that anything can happen and every team has VOD advantages as time goes by, but I think PRX/LEV have the potential to have a better season than 2023 FNC
all of their players are very skilled
consistency, eye test, hard carry, superstar of the team, legacy at the biggest tournament (Champions)
So for you duelist players will generally always be the better players since majority of the time they are the superstars and high fragging players in the team?
That’s not true tbh, a lot of support players are good fraggers. The best fragger of all time list probably only contains derke and Aspas, maybe texture
I mean in majority of the teams generally the duelist player is usually the super star and also the top Fragger. Never said roles like initiators can't frag but they generally aren't recognized as the superstar of he team.
That’s just dumb bias then, if your going by statistics a lot of teams best players is non duelist
Yeah that's what I am saying. Most casual val fans consider duelist players the superstar or the best player in the team generally which is why I think in pro play duelists get kinda overrated. Majority only look at stats like kills.
Well, yes? Every team competition has that one role
In football for example, most of the times the best player in the world will be a Forward player or Midfielder, since they are more involved with the main nature of the game (score goals), its very rare to see a Defender win the award of best player
In FPS games, in Valorant, the duelist is usually the star player and he is more involved with the main nature of the game (getting kills)
Its also related to being the most popular and competitive role to play
I have to disagree with this take.
Make a greatest player of all time list and the only duelists are Aspas, derke, and maybe texture, the rest are support players
Texture still ain't there yet. Top 5 oat. I would honestly put jingg above even though jingg isn't that flexible or even kk and something. But yeah only derke and aspas would ever be in top 10 best players oat list as a pure duelist.
I would put texture #10 maybe, jingg and something in honorable mentions
Jingg can’t be too high because his agent pool is pretty poor and he only gets away with it because he’s blessed enough to have forsaken on his team (whose higher than all of these guys on the goat list)
Texture isn't top 10 player oat. Some people don't even put meteor in top 10 idk why. No way is texture top 10 oat. He is top 5 duelist oat tho. Aspas, derke, kk, something and texture would be my top 5 for duelist.
That’s fair
I just personally gave him top 10 because of shanghai, madrid, and Toronto. I felt like his peaks whenever he’s been on a tier 1 team (2024 onwards) have been too high, but I can see why you wouldn’t have him there
I mean, same with munchkin (plus munchkin actually reached internationals with T1 in 2023 asw so he might be top 10 oat in terms of consistency)
+1, i think only aspas and derke are the only pure duelists in top 10 oat, and the top 5 duelist list is almost the same except i have zekken instead of something
Aspas, Derke, t3xture, zekken, Zmjjkk, something, jinggg
Some of the others like TenZ and Meteor were also originally duelist players, Alfajer also used to play duelist
Thats already a lot of duelists
Alfajer always flexed to sentinel, meteor as well on the time he won Shanghai
Zekken kk and something cannot all be on the goat list, they all only really been good in 2 international tournaments each
Zekken (champs 24, madrid) something (champs 25), kk (Tokyo, champs 24)
Nah I gotta see ur full goat list man? I think you just got duelist bias tbh
they all only really been good in 2 international tournaments each
They have been good for several tournaments. They would be in GOAT lists because of the consistency over the years.
My goat list right now would have be something like this, without putting much thought into it:
Regardless of the order, 1/3 of the list are duelists in a game that has 4 main roles, some others of were also originally duelist players
I didnt put great primes like yay 21/22 and Demon1 Champs 23, but they were also duelists. Most of the highest peaks in the game were duelist players (aspas all time) (TenZ duelist plumber era) (derke all time) (zekken, t3xture and Zmjjkk 2024) (kaajak 2025) (Cned 2021) (something 2023 and 2025)
Kk > Chron is crazy surely?
Chron isn’t an Aspas level player but he is definitely individually far more consistent than kk
Some of his great tournaments include masters Berlin, champs Berlin, lockin, Tokyo, champs 24, and Toronto, was good champs 25 too
He has to be higher than kk, whose only individually stand out tourneys are masters Tokyo and champs 24
Zekken being higher than forsaken and meteor is crazy too
Feel like your biased towards duelists
But KK won Champs with a superstar record breaking performance and has been the aspas of an entire region over the years. That counts a lot for me
My biggest criticism about Chronicle is how he was never the best player on his own team for at least 90% of his career. I cant put him ahead of people like Alfajer, Leo and Derke, when they were all better than Chronicle for most of the time
Chronicle had at least 3 all time great players that were better than him in his team, I find it hard to put him above players that hard carried teams to greatness like KK did
Chron's biggest argument are basically team achievements and boosted stats from being in winning superteams. He is still great, but he is too overrated. I think both f0rsaken and Ethan are ahead of Chronicle in the flex goat convo
He was the best player on gambit during champs? And was nearly as good at masters Berlin
Also, KK wasn’t the best player in champs either, that was chichoo or smoggy, he only really carried in the finals, so that argument applies to him too. One match, no matter how impressive doesn’t cancel chronicle being better than kangkang for literally FOUR YEARS.
You can’t really consider kk’s domestic achievement without considering chronicle has also won domestically 5 times in a far harder region, so it’s irrelevant. I think your confusing cultural impact and in game performance.
ik u weren't talking abt me but I js wanna share my goat list
Individual performance + consistency and then team achievements in a team based esports like val. I like hltv type ranking. I wish val had something similar. But val being more random and having less events kinda makes it hard to make hltv like top 20 lists ig.
consistency, individual performance and eye test, i don't value team achievements that much
Dominance and consistency. They should consistently be one of the best players individually in the esport and the best player on their team for the most part while also making most internationals and having a least won an international if not even more than that.
People in here talking about "Champ wins, Champ legacy" but im a villain when i say this 💔
They must have invented a concept that everyone in valorant now uses, like lurking or pro valorant
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