Which team at their prime is the best whom have won masters or champs out of these if comparing all and if they versed each other and out of the finals, what was the best match ever:
2021 Masters Reykjavik - Sentinels
2021 Masters Berlin - Gambit
2021 Valorant Champions - Acend
2022 Masters Reykjavik - Optic
2022 Masters Copenhagen - FPX
2022 Valorant Champions - Loud
2023 VCT LOCK/IN - Fnatic
2023 Masters Tokyo - Fnatic
2023 Valorant Champions - EG
2024 Masters Madrid - Sentinels
2024 Masters Shanghai - GenG
2024 Valorant Champions - EDG
2025 Masters Bangkok - T1
2025 Masters Toronto - PRX
2025 Champions Paris - NRG
1
Best Team At Their Prime
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I think lockin was better but I’m sure you can tell why I’m biased in that sense. It was defo a banger and a top 3 gf but I think lockin beats it
It only had comeback to remember it. Imo boom vs spg was best map. The ending too was too good and dramatic
final was a fucking banger. but id never bring EDG near any prime teams convo lol
True yeah. peak form edg is one of the scariest team to face in micro but yeah their macro is kinda of a level worse compared to other prime teams like eg or fnc
ultimately the game is about hitting bullets and I doubt prime eg or fnc could match that
The more recent teams will always beat the old teams. The x's and o's have just changed way too much.
never
btw why i get downvoted asf? the best 5 brazilian players in history of valorant who just won champs and didn’t lose a single series regionally (drop like 3 maps in brazil) and they did this in chamber meta, while loud wasn’t chamber abusers
because even tho that roster would still be very good today, the players and coaching as they were in 2022 getting placed in today's game would get slammed.
thats like saying prime Pele and Prime Michael Jordan wouldnt be good in current football and current basketball, and that all the teams that are good in 2025, would be trash in 2035. Prime Messi 2012 would get slammed in 2040?
That argument is just not true as you are just ignoring the talent of the players, their >adaptability< and what made them so great
There is also the fact that today's level of competition only exists because those guys were incredibly good back then and served as a mirror for the next generations.
So if the talent was there, there is no proof that they would be bad nowadays outside of just "wow champs 2025 was so good, the players are so cracked! These teams clears all the teams from the past!!!" (recency bias)
thats like saying prime Pele and Prime Michael Jordan wouldnt be good in current football and current basketball, and that all the teams that are good in 2025, would be trash in 2035. Prime Messi 2012 would get slammed in 2040?
yea thats literally all true lol
thats why its impossible to compare players from different eras cuz the newer ones will always be better.
ok, but shouldn’t we compare what he achieved at his peak to decide who was better historically?
LOUD’s 2022 roster created the Ascent meta that’s still used today. They completely dominated their region, and every one of their five players was the best in their role.
They were ahead of their time, but unfortunately their Masters Copenhagen run was terrible.
So you actually believe that this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4wTERfoPfA
Would be slammed in 2040?
the argument is not based on recency, but on the fact that the game and meta evolved. if you take LOUD 2022 in a vacuum and put them in the current meta, they would indeed get slammed by a PRX, NRG or FNC.
also there were 4 Brazilian players, Saadhak is Argentinian
You can also make the argument that the current PRX, NRG or FNC would not be that good in 2022 meta or wouldnt win anything. 2022 also Is not even that much in the past since some players are still actively good today
The most fair thing would be to put both teams at their prime in a completely new meta, saying present > past doesnt convince me at all
I agree, I don’t think that its relevant to the conversation, I was just saying that that was the argument :)
also i realize now you werent the one that said there were 5 brazilians, my bad
bro, saadhak is argentinian i know, we all know, its just ez to say 5 brazilians instead 4 br and 1 arg. saadhak played all career in brazil (before franchises)
That's a bad comparison. Player skill isn't improving in sports that have existed for decades at the same rate as it is improving in Valorant that has existed for only five years.
Coach's and player's understanding of the game simply just gets better year by year. Things like ult cycling only started late 2023 by the very top teams, and by 2024 pretty much every team was doing it. Same with pistol round snowballing. Teams in 2022 would simply get wrecked by this.
Prime 2022 Loud is prime because they destroyed the average of their time. When the average is constantly improving year by year, you know the teams that are considered prime in later years would simply destroy the prime teams in earlier years.
TLDR- false equivalence
not really, the game changing all the time only makes it harder to compare teams from different times because the teams succeded at basically different versions of the game
Thats why Chess players nowadays are objectively better than the old ones, because the game knowledge is way more spread today than it was before, there's even AI's that can play near perfect unbeatable Chess and everyone can learn from that, and its the same game for 100 years
Valorant not being the same game over the years only makes it harder to compare teams from different times. If you put the same teams from 2022 to play against 2025 teams in a completely different meta that no one played, you cant say for sure that the teams from 2025 would win against 2022 just because they were good in 1 meta(2025).
The talent and adaptability is there regardless of "when"
You are trying to say that a 2025 team would beat a 2022 team >IN 2025<, well yeah probably, but thats not a fair way to compare teams from an >all time< perspective. Put the 2025 teams to play in 2022 meta, they probably lose against LOUD and Optic there.
What you can compare is their talent at the time of their success(subjective), their dominance, their stats, eye-test, individual skill, innovations, team play and that would require a deeper analysis that goes beyond just > the game is better now so the players are also better!<
TLDR - inversion of values in your argument
There are certain things that are meta independent that teams in 2025 are simply better at.
You're using LOUD 2022 coz a lot of the players from that team are still relevant today, but let's make a comparison to say Sen 2021 and you'll understand what I'm saying. You can't seriously tell me that any good teams from the franchising era wouldn't simply wreck Sen 2021 because their understanding of the game has just improved so much.
Another thing that makes players and teams better in 2025 is because over the years they've played against so many different kinds of playstyles that their reactions when they see something they haven't seen before. Teams in 2025 know everything that teams know everything teams in 2022 did plus 3 years of extra experience, so they would still beat Loud 2022 even if they were chucked into the 2022 meta. This is basically the same thing as the chess thing you said.
There are more things I wanna say but I'll leave that for your response coz I don't want the comment to get too long.
Its not the same thing because Chess is the same game for a very long time so the players are more comparable given the contexts of their era and the information available, Valorant is a game that changes every 6 months or less, its not the same. Those 3 extra years of experience are experience in certain different metas.
In a completely new meta hypothetical 5v5 between both teams, they would have to adapt the same way with new stuff. The player or the team having more experience, more time playing the game, doesnt necessarily means victory because Ange1 would have 10 VCT trophies by now if more time = better
I cant think of a 2025 team that is better than:
aspas, Less, Sacy, saadhak, pANcada at their prime
And a lot of the players that are playing today were also playing back then too and couldnt win anything so in this situation we're not talking about players that are completely separated by the timeline like in other esports/sports
The 2021 Reykjavik Sentinels didn’t drop a single map in their run to the championship (the only time that’s ever happened), and TenZ delivered the best performance in the history of an international tournament. They were innovative for their time and completely dominated their region. So it depends — if you compare them to today, it’s unfair, but back then they were ahead of their time, just like many other world champion teams.
nah, loud 2022 roster (nowadays) easily wins vct americas 2026 and maybe some internationals
aspas > mada
less >= skuba
sacy =< brawk
saadhak = ethan
pancada =< s0m
its hard to compare but aspas is the only one who is definetly better
you're comparing players from 2022 to now. not only does this not work, but there is more to valorant than mechanical skill. game knowledge is wayyyy different than back then.
time frame is important. ig the question is more on which teams at their prime outclassed others at their time.
What if the players played with the same patch they won on, so if they played viper in 2022 that teams viper would have more fuel than say a 2024 team or chamber would have two trips on the older team vs one on the newer team
The later year teams would still win because there are things teams are doing in the later years that are meta independent that teams in earlier years simply didn't do
edit: grammar
you reminded me of the iconic "Gira Aspas" clip against Scream in that game:
https://www.vlr.gg/85526/loud-vs-team-liquid-valorant-champions-tour-stage-1-masters-reykjav-k-ubqf
The good old days...
objectively speaking its 100% fnatic, but i personally think 2023 champs eg is the best team this game has ever seen
2023 fnatic or EG. recent teams will always be better but at the time those two were the most dominant.
Who was more dominant than FNATIC and EG? EG at champs and FNATIC at Tokyo and lock-in
bro tokyo fnatic is the most dominant team showing at a international ever (other than Sentinels at reykjavik but archaic era who cares) and EG were fundamentally the best team ever at their peak. not a single person dragging the team down while having the best player itw at the time. 2023 eg with everyone in form would still be good today
2024 geng almost created a dynasty in a volatile meta compared to fnatic time where meta didn't changed much and we also didn't tournament like lock in.
But still fnatic superteam was better on paper because they have leo, alfa, chron and derke.
22 loud, 23 eg, 23 fnatic, 24 geng. from these 4, i would chose 23 EG but others also are fair choice. No other teams have seemed unbeatable to me apart from these at their peaks
Fraudnatic farmed teams that had 0 practice. Lock in was the biggest mickey mouse of all time.
Tokyo was a fluke.
Two things happened.
No something and Demon1 visa issues.
When this was fixed EG and PRX finished 1 and second while fraudnatic couldn't even make top 3.
Flame me as much as you can but Madrid SEN was different. They had the hardest route. From Regional to International they had the hardest route.
sen had a difficult route sure but if we mean the absolutely hardest route, it has to be toronto prx.
edg seoul I mean despite going the long way it talks more about the level of play of TH in that tournament than edg not being steps above other teams micro (along them)
my main point on #56, doubt we will see that level ever again unless we get this years peak mibr to the finals and another heavyhitting team and even then it's debatable
The issue with these discussions is you need to clarify whether you're asking "Which team was the best at their prime relative to the teams they played against at the time" or "In a competition between all these best teams at their prime, who would win". The answer for the first question is simply just 2021 Reykjavik Sentinels, they didn't drop a single map that tournament, close second is 2023 Tokyo Fnatic I think. The second question raises another question which is "What meta are they playing with", because a lot of teams were successful on a particular meta and not necessarily as good on other metas. The other issue is that teams on average just get better year by year, i.e., most 2025 teams would wreck most 2023 teams.
TLDR- Difficult to answer because parameters for the question aren't well defined
yeah so teams from 2023 onward would wipe their asses with every team from 2021-2022
GenG 24 mid diffs all the other teams you mentioned and all top 2 teams from masters and champs in 2025 mid diffs GenG 2024 and low diffs the other teams
Geng diff t1 ,prx , g2 and fnc 2025 .
Because they almost did that with 2025 roster.
Geng 2024 >geng 2025
- Prime FNC 2023
- Prime LOUD 2022
- Prime EG 2023
- Prime GMB 2021
- Prime SEN 2021/Prime OpTic 2022
Those are Top 5 peak still as of now.
sen 2021 when they only made to 1 finals and got worse with time.
Optic 2022 is equivalent to loud 2022.
Geng 2024 clears all other than fnc 2023
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