I think sometimes in the grand finals of VCT events, double ban advantage sometimes is so huge that team from lower bracket who are coming exhausted after long run dont even get to show how good they are. I think to even out the odds little bit Upper bracket team should still keep the double ban advantage but lower bracket team should be able to pick 1st and 3rd maps in a Bo5. 3rd picked map wouldnt be that favoured for lower bracket team anyway because of a double ban. Any thoughts?
Valorant BO5s
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Valorant Discussion
I think sometimes in the grand finals of VCT events, double ban advantage sometimes is so huge that team from lower bracket who are coming exhausted after long run dont even get to show how good they are. I think to even out the odds little bit Upper bracket team should still keep the double ban advantage but lower bracket team should be able to pick 1st and 3rd maps in a Bo5. 3rd picked map wouldnt be that favoured for lower bracket team anyway because of a double ban. Any thoughts?
since bans are done before picks then it doesnt rlly matter what order the 5 maps will be played in
They're aware, but playing your preferred 2 maps 1st and 3rd at least guarantees the first few maps are a more even playing field (better viewing experience)
yeah but it isnt about a better viewing experience, OP is saying that it gives them an advantage that "even[s] out the odds" maybe im just being too pedantic as they seem to then go on to say its good for them to pick 1st and 3rd for the purpose of playing their better maps first which can hopefully give them the ability to prove themselves more.
no it still matters if u win in 4 maps and if ur 5th map is horrible that means u dont have to play ur 5th map because if it goes to 5 then u lost
brotato
if you were to win 3 of the first 4 maps it doesnt matter whether you play map 4 or map 5 first. it only changes whether you win 3-1 or 3-2
no
if u are up 2-1 after the 3rd map
now if u win the 4th map u win 3-1 but if u lose the 4th map it becomes 2-2 and if ur fifth map is horrible than ur likely to end up 2-3
so yes it does make a difference to play ur better maps first
brotato
so ur saying the scenario is 2-1, map A is a 50/50 and map B is a guaranteed loss?
then if map A is first then you have a 50/50 at winning 3-1 and if map B is first then you have a 50/50 at winning 3-2
🤦♂️
NVM im a retard
come to think of it i only think it matters if you lose out before u get to play ur best maps
like if u lose in 3 or u lose in 4 and ur 4th and 5th map r rlly good
Teams coming from the lower bracket gain more momentum than the upper bracket team. I think you underestimate the advantage that comes with playing right after a lower final that makes teams very sharp and ready which is why you see that half the time, the lower bracket team wins.
Facts. More momentum and experiences gained, especially from the Bo5 at Lower Finals.
Optic won Reykjavik. FPX won Copenhagen. EG win champs. SEN won Madrid. T1 won Bangkok. Idk for sure how long double map bans have existed, but this seems to imply like half of the lower bracket teams win.
i usually think its not OP enough lol,
double ban just isnt as op as some people think, and the teams that win 3-0, 3-1 and even 3-2 are usually just the "clearly better" teams where it wouldnt even matter
thats also why i found it weird people kept saying shi like "g2 sold in bangkok" because t1 just had a better map pool than g2 even with the ban
I watch other esports where if you come from lowers you have to beat the winners twice, so I've always seen this as too small of an advantage.
how is that lol? like you gotta play the upper team in 2 bo3s and win both?
it's called a bracket reset, and the way #10 phrased it is a little misleading imo, because you'll never see this happening in like a tac fps or moba
pretty much the loser's side player/team has to beat the upper bracket to "reset" the bracket, then they replay the grand finals for the actual trophy, so the winner's side effectively has 2 chances to win
it's very common in the FGC and RLCS, because those games, and series overall, take much less time, so playing 2 bo5s or even bo7s back to back isn't that unreasonable, and actually puts some pressure on the player from winner's side to not "choke"
but it's completely unreasonable for any tac fps game, especially valorant where a map is literally an hour on average, it would just be a logistical nightmare
Tbh, I don’t like double elim too much. Hard to balance it in a way that makes it fair for the upper bracket, but not too harsh on the lower bracket. I also find the whole upper bracket final is the same as grand finals to be a little disappointing.
I prefer worlds or CS majors style of single elim. Makes the grand finals matchup more interesting and gives underdogs more of a chance.
2 bans is fine, the record so far is 5W- 5L for the team that have 2 bans advantage.
Ngl I think the opposite double map bans are so useless the winners side team should be getting something extra
There are so many teams that have won from Lower bracket so I don't think it really matters
its only ridiculously strong when the team you are vsing has a really poor map pool, like forcing fnatic onto pearl and sunset
honestly i think riot should make upper final a b05 in international events (maybe regional) and get more venue days
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