nAts > Aspas all time

goat1594

True or False?

sentinelmain377

-20

Frags

–

slightly false
if nAts get a deep run in another 1-2 tournaments, then yeah

top 20 all time:

Derke
Chronicle
aspas
Leo
Sacy
nAts
Less
yay
TenZ
Alfajer
Boaster
MaKo
Meteor
Zmjjkk
Jawgemo
cNed
BuZz
f0rsaken
t3xture
Ethan

goat1594

Frags

–

If Trent dominates this event and wins MVP + trophy does he enter your Top 20 over anyone? or is he a fringe 21-23 guy

sentinelmain377

Frags

–

nah. he would prob be in 21-30 with players like Shao, Suygetsu, Sayf, Marved, pAncada, Stax, etc

#13

goat1594

Frags

–

That's fair, it's your list at the end of the day but I think a trophy easily puts him over Marved at the very least and I'd even put him over Suygetsu as well. Champs MVP gives pAncada the edge but he's in striking distance of Shao, we haven't seen Shao dominate on LAN in a while.

#10

Wolfed

Frags

–

may be recency bias but i feel sacy is often overrated in these lists - nats has cemented himself as not only an innovator, strategist AND shooter/performer, but now also as a igl and leader to his team.
Sacy may have trophies, and he certainly was a leader/mentor to his teams, he was never as dominant as nats (as far as I remember, I’ve only been consistently watching since 2023, so correct me if i’m wrong)

#11

sentinelmain377

Frags

–

he was pretty much champs 2022 mvp though unless u wanna say pAncada
and is the 2nd GOAT initiator of all time

also longevity (2021, 2022, 2024)
his 2021 is comparable to nAts 2023
his 2022 is comparable to nAts 2021 (but nAts is decently higher)
his 2024 is comparable to nAts 2022 and 2025 (but Sacy is decently higher)

#12

goat1594

Frags

–

I'm like 90% sure pAncada won the champs MVP, bc I always see people bring it up to discredit Aspas

#15

sentinelmain377

Frags

–

im pretty sure all MVPs before franchising are subjective (not official) with there being some clear ones everyone agrees with.

#17

goat1594

Frags

–

He's listed as the MVP on the official wiki page for the event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Valorant_Champions

#19

sentinelmain377

Frags

–

I did see that, but I dont remember there being any official MVP announcement back then by anyone and that has ppl like Marved for reykjavik 2022, which makes it VERY UNRELIABLE (since everyone back then and TODAY 100% agree on it being yay). Im pretty sure some editor just put their subjective/what they thought MVPs on there for pre-franchising

#20

Wolfed

-1

Frags

–

pretty sure that was edited by users, not valorant itself, so its just another opinion

#29

goat1594

Frags

–

This tweet by Valorant indicates that Aspas won it funny enough https://x.com/ValorantEsports/status/1575497361433903104

#37

sentinelmain377

Frags

–

it doesnt even make sense though cuz stats-wise and final stats-wise, he wasnt even close
and even the discussions at the time didnt have him in the convo

#39

goat1594

Frags

–

Yeah I have no idea but this indicates he won it but on paper pancada was the best player

#38

Wolfed

Frags

–

Oh crazy, youre right, then

#18

Wolfed

Frags

–

was aspas #1 on your list before this tournament?

#25

sentinelmain377

Frags

–

my true list (no). my list for upfrags (yes)

but like if u actually think about it, Derke and Chronicle clear in stats and success. Also when I think of Aspas being good, all i remember is the SEN vs LEV game in 2024 and cant remember much else.

#33

Wolfed

Frags

–

I disagree with that, aspas’ dominance is unmatched, i feel like being the BEST player is equal to being the goat, regardless of success (but rather consistent prowess)

#35

sentinelmain377

Frags

–

Derke and Chron also have consistent dominant prowess and for one more year than aspas, more trophies, more international success

#41

Lucas99

Frags

–

Playing in a super team and comparing to rookies

continue thread →

#14

uwukitten

Frags

–

bro saw aspas have a bad tournament and jumped at the chance to put d0rke above him 💔d0rke is NOT better all time

#16

sentinelmain377

Frags

–

Derke has qualified/attended 11/14 VCT international events 2021-2025.
and he has always placed top 8 teams

so he has
Derke 11 international apperances: 2nd, 5th-8th, 4th, 5th-6th, 1st, 1st, 4th, 7th-8th, 5th-6th, 4th

top 8 placements: 10/10
top 4 placements: 6/10
top 2 placements: 3/10
top 1 placements: 2/10

2 trophies

he clears aspas. also better international stats than Aspas

#22

shrike-

-2

Frags

–

if derke so great, why he didn't go toronto?

#28

sentinelmain377

Frags

–

v0tality shitters
sayf is on his delusional arc of thinking he is a good igl (bro needs to put the fries in the bag and play duelist/flex duelist&initiator)

#36

shrike-

-1

Frags

–

Chose money over long term success </3 not my goat
needs to let go of s0yf igl quickly before it's too late

#46

sentinelmain377

Frags

–

Aspas went to mibr with some bums instead of a super team. Did not choose long term success did he?

#51

shrike-

Frags

–

admitted derke is a superteam merchant

#53

sentinelmain377

Frags

–

was that already not a fact lmao?

superteams have GOAT tier players (Derke, Chron, Leo, Alfa, Boaster)

#56

shrike-

-1

Frags

–

aspas gets near similar placements without a superteam (loud 22 wasn't a superteam)

continue thread →

#32

Sinbad_1389

Frags

–

Cause his TEAM is bad not the player. If texture is so good where was he at Bangkok , Tokyo , LA , Berlin , Istanbul. See how stupid of an argument is this to undermine the success of a player , for reference I think texture is an insane player and deserving here.

#42

Lucas99

Frags

–

This guy is so ass comparing a super team duelist with the best support anyone could ever have to bunch of bums playing with goat to qualify for events

#45

sentinelmain377

Frags

–

why is he not on good teams then? surely aspas would go on super teams wouldnt he?

no, he wants to stick with those bums, so dont use that as an argument u clown. And also he was on a superteam/really good team from 2022-2023 and LEV arguably as well in 2024

bro is just saying whatever fits his argument

#59

Lucas99

Frags

–

You're so dumb
22-23 he won 1 champs and was top 3 in 2 events with loud
In 24 he was the totally carry for lev and was top3 in champs

#60

Lucas99

Frags

–

First of all there are not many super teams and 2nd most teams can't afford him
3rd all good teams already have their roster locked in

#61

sentinelmain377

-1

Frags

–

anyone would accept aspas (even the current super teams like FNC and VIT - giga money)

You should not call derke a super team duelist when aspas was on superteams for 3/3.5 of his years (and right now he only isnt on one due to HIS choice)

#65

littleschemer

Frags

–

no way you're calling 2024 lev a super team. also I don't think loud can be considered a superteam when they started as an orgless team that just became one of the best teams in the world, I feel like it needs to be built from already established top players to really be a superteam

#68

sentinelmain377

Frags

–

well sacy and saadhak core were established as the greats of brazil in 2021 so idk wdym by the loud not being able to be considered a superteam.

lev had one of the best initiators at the time (c0m), 2nd best LATAM igl and one of the best fraggers (kinGg), proven great flex for 3 years (Mazino), aspas (one of the best duelists if not best according to some)

maybe lev wasnt, but they were still a REALLY close to super team on paper

#70

littleschemer

Frags

–

if 2 established top players alone make a team a superteam, half the teams in vct are superteams

continue thread →

#66

Lucas99

Frags

–

Bro you are not well if you think he was in a super team for 3/3.5 years
Calling lev a super team is outrageous

#43

littleschemer

Frags

–

I feel like if there's anyone who could at least challenge aspas for #1 it was derke, they've both been pretty dominant for the past 2 years. I'd still pick aspas just because he made more than 1 core work. though after what vitality and now mibr have done this year not sure if either of then finish the year still making my top 2

#21

HyunminFanboy

Frags

–

Buzz over t3xture 🤮🤮🤮🤮

#34

sentinelmain377

Frags

–

All time

#40

HyunminFanboy

Frags

–

T3xture in Madrid/ Shanghai >>>>>>> Buzz's whole career

#24

Prasinos

Frags

–

Speak the truth goat.

#26

SENfns

Frags

–

d0rke over chronicle when chronicle has more trophies and is still consistent to this day

#48

sentinelmain377

-1

Frags

–

its EMEA and EMEA. does it really matter?

#50

SENfns

Frags

–

yeah.......? you're ranking players not regions
chron is far better and far more consistent

#52

sentinelmain377

Frags

–

bro nobody here is debating chronicle and derke. I can switch em around whenever and nobody would question the placement of those 2

#54

SENfns

Frags

–

are you ok?
you made a list of "top 20 players of all time" in which you set a specific order of players
and i commented on who you put in what order

#27

aquaa018s_alterego

Frags

–

no f0rsaken is crazy im not gonna lie

#30

sentinelmain377

Frags

–

he is there what?

#31

aquaa018s_alterego

Frags

–

nvm im blind sry

#44

zenarcl

-1

Frags

–

Alfajer >> yay, tenz and tenz. Less is goat of sentinel but Alfa is better player. His agent pool is def larger

#49

sentinelmain377

Frags

–

ppl dont agree with that cuz everybody is a TenZ fan. yes Alfa was good 2022-2024, but Alfajer looking ass rn

#62

Shooka

Frags

–

Don't get me wrong derke is a top player but I wouldn't make him no.1 of all time he's Def top 10 but he gets flakey as the year goes by proven in the last 2/3 years of his vct career imo and no I wouldn't know who would take no. As their are alot of better players who could take that spot

#63

kfan4238173

Frags

–

why demon1 above other cmvps like zeek or pancada?

#78

Wolfed

Frags

–

bro snuck in pancada 😹

shrike-

Frags

–

not yet

GambleNats

Frags

–

nats is always a hard player to compare because his teams normally arent good enough to qualify, but if im honest, its probably aspas right now but we will need to see the longevity of each player

AlexSMTx

Frags

–

all time not quite yet, but current form for sure

Tyran

Frags

–

xd?

x_knowitall39_x

Frags

–

obviously not nats had like a 2 year streak of being internationally irrelevent

#23

_blahaj

Frags

–

not really, had nothing last year, but that was on a super bad team, made champs and only lost to NRG and EG in 2023, and was doing pretty well through all of this individually

#55

littleschemer

Frags

–

tbf he was on a garbage team last year, but it wasn't even like a yay situation where he was also playing like shit. he was still cooking