Point A: Nats has made a LAN without players of leo and chronicles caliber, Aspas just made a LAN with 3 rookies (technically 2) and a sova drone
Point B: There's a difference between good teams and the superteam fnatic formed in 2023, imagine the 2016 warriors with Curry Klay and Draymond get KD AND prime Nikola Jokic
these trophies are essentially the same as a kid going to Mexico to lose his virginity to a hooker
Leo was barely tier 1 before 2023, he was basically new talent, one intl attended.
Derke was good ofc but peaked that year.
Chron had ALREADY proven that he could play very well with teammates like redgar and d3ffo (no hate, but theres a reason theyre not in t1 anymore)
boaster is boaster
alfa was "the wonderkid" for a reason, underrated prior to fnc
really because crashies wasnt a top 3 ini itw vic wasnt a top 3 entry itw fns wasnt a top 3 igl and marved wasnt a top 3 smokes
and what happened the year after? NRG got ardiis made a strong enough showing internationally although understandidbly because compeititon got harder
yay on cloud9 got replaced by a rookie and cloud9 got better after his dismissal
2022 yay was the product of chamber meta, a really talented player on chamber/jett, and a team who had all the tools to put him in situations to be a star, hes not a player who will show up in any meta on any team like aspas, im sorry
fair on the crashies/marved but fns while fns was great igl he wasnt top 3 in his role and vic was prob not even top 5
also for yay in 23 cant even fault him on that-that team had major chem issues (i mean zellsis was playing duelist for them) and in the 2 games yay played in he played very well and was their top performer (only player positive) in their elim match-C9 got better after cause they got a new igl and players who fit their roles better. 24 was fucked situation and he still played decent. 25 hes finally on a team and hes frying again one of the only reasons EG made top 4 this split
xeppa and leaf were the best players vs prx and against drx the team got 13-7d and 13'2d so being team mvp on maps where you get stomped doesnt matter
leaf can play both duelist and sentinel, the role issue is that yay was good at chamber and jett, his jett meant the team struggled on entries and chamber was out of the meta so he was replaced
stop the cope
how do u include tenz? when he had a shit team in 2022 he looked shite himself..
sacy - you can argue that both LOUD and sentinels were STACKED although they had johnqt as tier 2 igl but he is literally one of the best igls out there..
agreed nats and aspas have performed decent on different teams but what have they actually won on a shit team?
its never the player alone thats what simple-minded fans like - "goats".. no one is a goat when you dont have a goat team to support you.. its a team game
c9 got dominated in a reverse sweep - leaf and xeppa were the best players vs prx and against drx the only map they won was a 13-3 where yay wasnt the standout best player if anything was 4th or 5th, the next two maps were DRX stomps so idrc if yay was the only player getting kills, so thats a weird argument
tenz was the best player itw from game release up until champs 2021 or berlin (honestly just had a bad team at berlin) and in 2024 became a leader on sentinels, was a top 10 player on a new role. So yeah, I do value winning being the best player itw for the longest anyone has ever been the best player itw, and then also coming back years later and dominating without a superteam
you dont need a goat team to win international tournaments, thats just cope
what inconsistent arguments with 100000 holes... lmao
c9 coaches and ex-players and current players since yay being removed have come out and said the issue wasnt roles as much as it was money.. c9 is broke and they overestimated the financial returns of a franchised league which didn't make sense thus had to make a change... leaf always preferred playing sentinel and he confirmed this which is why valyn/joshrt let their core member from the guard - net go and let leaf takeover the sentinel role.. this is also on record.. the whole point was yay played 2 games and was put in a shitty situation where he couldn't be picked up by another tier 1 org..(transfer window closed)
inconsistent arguments again.. tenz was shit in 2022 when he had a shit team.. there was a match where jonahP's skye dog had more kills than tenz in 2022.. when tenz and sacy leave sentinels.. the team still makes every international LAN which proves that team was never really dependent on them (LEaDeRS!!!!) - (u say ardiis replaced yay and still the team did well but conveniently ignore that in the case of tenz and sacy)
your other two "goatz" aspas and nats have won fuck all without superteams..
i aint even arguing in favor of yay being a goat.. i dont even think he is one... no one is a goat without a good team
pls explain how anyone you listed under 'embraced challenges' embraced a challenge? signing for the highest paying org in valorant is 'embracing a challenge?' wearing out your welcome in your org bc you are too demanding and them not wanting you back is 'embracing a challenge?' lol you cannot be serious rn
i'm not even a sen fan, but does joining a good org and winning a trophy sound like an easy road to you? if you weren't talented and wouldn't put in the effort you could have 4 aspas on your team and you'd stilll lose. also, are you saying the hard road is winning the game or making a bag? because it's definitely unfair to discredit a player for winning an event just because they're "getting paid more than anyone." there's also no reason anyone would join a terrible org with bad players and bad salaries just in the spirit of "embracing a challenge" when everyone's goal is to make money and win. i agree that some people's values are definitely inflated by their good teams, but at most you can say that they shouldn't be counted as the goat, you can't say they're a bad person or player for not "embracing a challenge" because their achievements show otherwise.
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