If he gets his third. I think we have to call him the undisputed GOAT
Ethan 'Ethan' Arnold
posted in
Valorant Discussion
no
seriously why are newgens like you allowed to speak
Who
Chronicle would still clear for sure
Boaster as well probly
Derke Aspas Alfa maybe not
Who fucking asked about Chronicle, Asspas, or Dorke bro. 2023 Champions Winner, 2025 Champions Winner, 2nd Place at EWC 2026, 2nd Place at Masters Tokyo, 3rd at Masters Santiago, 3rd/4th at Masters Berlin
0.9 rating average at those tournaments. Real Goat stuff
Didn't say he was good. He's just the GOAT
3/6 years of Ethan's career he spent being irrelevant.
If you spent half your career not even being a contender, then how are you the goat?
Irrelevant is a stretch.
I think Ethan was totally capable of doing great things between 24-25 Stage 1, but I think he was held back by teammates. But disrespecting Marved, FNS, crashies, etc, would cause riots in the streets...
he was the igl (and problem) though
crashies went to Fnatic and was insane.
and FNS didnt join til like stage 2 in 2024
tbf i only looked at stage 2 2024, i clicked one random old game and it made sense
21 100t he was in the shadow of Nitro and Asuna, where they failed at every step.
22 NRG was a clusterfuck
24 his relevancy was being an awful igl. This isn't because of the players around him, but because he was inexperienced in the role and had a lot to learn
I'd say for 3/6 years of his career should not include him in the goat conversations. Same way Gla1ve in CS is not in those conversations, or dupreeh.
Also marved, fns, and crashies aren't being put in these conversations. Marved was put in the controller conversation like 4 years ago, and never again after. FNS people meme about, but he only had a good track record when prime Yey was playing the game.
Crashies is the only players out of those 3 who has an argument in his role, and even then it's not a super strong one.
2024 Ethan was capable, but everyone was playing badly. The whole roster couldn't adjust to the next season. On paper they should have been a contender, but new leadership, older players and out of form players, etc. They just had big names on the team, and that's it.
Demon1 - lost form instantly after a career defining run
marved - Honestly was washed at that point, but not the worst
Victor - Hot ass towards end of 23, and his consistency issues were apparent when franchising hit.
Crashies - Was not in his best form. After old optic, he looked rough until he went to fnatic. he had his moments, but wasn't the player he was at optic.
Ethan - Was hard carried by Demon1 on EG, and was new to being an IGL. Even if he mid rounded, he was never a primary IGl, so a lot of pressure was on him.
They had potential, but honestly the stars wernt aligning with them.
He won in CS too. He is the greatest NA Tac FPS player OAT for varying achievements between games.
Best NA player, sure. OAT across all fps, idk about that. Valorant still doesn't have the prestige of CS, so Twists might still hold that. That one is debatable though.
Achievements mean a lot, but not as much as people say.
It's why dupreeh is never in conversations about greatest players, despite being the player with the most majors in CSGO. S1mple was in the conversation before winning his first major, same with zywoo.
Hell, z0nic has more credit than Gla1ve does with the astralis streak.
Ethan has the most decorated career across the 2 games, but he still spent half his career on val being mostly irrelevant, and had like 1 good year internationally on CS, where he won an iem and an esl one.
I'm not trying to take away from him. He's a phenomenal player and if he keeps up like this, he'll definitely be there. However right now the accolades cant drag him to GOAT when he's never been the best player on the team.
This is a fair argument. To push back on the CS point. Ethan would have continued to be great in CS. I think covid ruined NA CS to a point of no return. If that did not happen, that EG team would have thrived even more so.
Very solid points and you have me rethinking my position.
I do want to point u to my comment about dupreeh ill just paste it here so u can see my POV:
"GOAT does not mean the most mechanically gifted player.
For example, donk is the most mechanically gifted player ever. But, what does the most mechanically gifted player strive for? Winning. Does he boast in his own HLTV rating? No, He boasts in winning trophies. The standard players hold towards achievements should also probably be our standard for judging the greatest because they all want that one goal. I hope this made sense.
In short, yes."
let's say Chronicle got 5th-6th at Champs 2026 and Ethan got 1st at Champs 2026:
Chronicle (13 events | 13 Top 8s | 9 Top 4s | 7 Top 2s | 3 Top 1s):
- 1st Masters, 2nd Champs, 1st LOCK//IN, 1st Masters, 4th Champs, 7th-8th Masters, 5th-6th Champs, 2nd Masters, 2nd EWC, 2nd Champs, 4th Masters, 5th-8th EWC, 5th-6th Champs
Ethan (10 events | 8 Top 8s | 7 Top 4s | 5 Top 2s | 3 Top 1s):
- 3rd-4th Masters, 9th-16th LOCK//IN, 2nd Masters, 1st Champs, 5th-8th EWC, 1st Champs, 3rd Masters, 9th-10th Masters, 2nd EWC, 1st Champs
Also Chronicle's individual player stats mog Ethan.
The 3 trophies from Ethan being 3 Champs trophies (which means more prize earnings than 2x Masters and 1x LOCK//IN) is not enough to go over Chronicle for everything that Chronicle clears Ethan in (more events, top 8s, top 4s, top 2s, and better individual stats).
Also Chronicle has been on 3 teams of the year (Gambit 2021, Fnatic 2023, Fnatic 2025), while Ethan would be on 1 (Nrg 2026) if Nrg wins Champ (this point doesn't really mean that much, but it does show that Chronicle is an important part of the most successful teams).
This is the best argument I have ever seen for chron, you should applaud yourself for this. However, where I disagree with you is the importance of tournaments. I think champs holds significantly more value than masters (Kinda like majors in CS). You are not wrong either though, it is subjective at the end of the day. I just wanted you to know that this was incredibly well articulated and put together.
aspas sneak
SentinelMOSSAD377
kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
yes
Not necessarily. Like if Brawk MVPs again then he becomes the goat instead
I am more convinced about this. Brawk is the truth
How can someone even think about calling br0wk the goat LMAO
yes
not at all
People will say ur logic is flawed because they use subjectivity in their arguments for the GOAT. Personally, trophies (Champs>Masters) is the most important category (and most objective). You all root for your favorite team to win, the most winning player is the GOAT. Currently I think Ethan is ahead of chronicle, but an argument can be made for either.
Currently, Ethan is DEFINITELY NOT ahead of Chronicle what r we smoking
to say that, you have to both value a 1st place at Champs (which Ethan has 2 of) A LOT more than a 2nd place at Champs (which Chronicle has 2 of) and you have to weigh Champs a LOTTTTTTT more than Masters/Lockin. there is no other way you can argue that. basically your GOAT is decided upon the results of Champs grand finals and that's it.
I replied to ur other comment. It was incredibly convincing tbh. But the key is I hold "winning" in the highest regard. Hence why none of my favorite players make any of my top 10 lists of role players (although arguments could be made for trent, and be stretched extremely for leaf and valyn.)
To answer more:
Not just champs, but that is the highest regard.
masters, longevity, stats, leadership, do they win when the player goes to the team, etc. These all still matter.
so dupreeh is the GOAT of CS with 5 Majors?
GOAT does not mean the most mechanically gifted player.
For example, donk is the most mechanically gifted player ever. But, what does the most mechanically gifted player strive for? Winning. Does he boast in his own HLTV rating? No, He boasts in winning trophies. The standard players hold towards achievements should also probably be our standard for judging the greatest because they all want that one goal. I hope this made sense.
In short, yes.
not even dupreeh agrees with you, and zero CS players consider dupreeh as the GOAT of CS
GOAT is also about being the >best<, especially in a team game, the individual performance and consistency are the most important things
s1mple was considered the GOAT in CSGO with only 1 Major
Astralis players had 4, but s1mple was still the GOAT of the game because he was the >best<
The fear with this is now we have to say that primmie is the GOAT. It then gets into a slippery slope of subjective opinion and I prefer to use winning as the means of determining the greatest. It is why I believe Michael Jordan is better than Lebron, Messi more so than Ronaldo, etc. It is the objective factor that I use in combination with player performance, IGL stances, etc. It is just the order I use the variables that differ from some.
primmie has zero MVPs and not enough longevity
Michael Jordan, Lebron, Messi and Ronaldo were the best players on their teams, they were actual star players and best players in the world multiple times and thats why they were/are in GOAT convos
I think your concept of Greatest Of All Time is too limited to trophies (team achievement) rather than MVPs, stats and consistency (individual achievements)
Primmie is a fucking fraud.
Neon is going become one of the most decorated players in Val history.
The weird thing with Ethan that we must note is that where he goes, they typically win. I see your point though.
yo can you tell aspas to lock in and handpick his teams better so we can go back to Chron vs Aspas (legendary) rather than Chron vs Cheathan (not legendary)
He finally realized that t0x and goonzino are not it
he probably got nostalgia from 2024 when he got very close to reaching the Champs Grand Final again
But he forgot that he had to be by far the highest rated player in the world in order to carry t0x, goonzino and cum to internationals
https://www.vlr.gg/stats?sort=rating2&dir=desc&tier=vct®ion=all&span=2024&side=all&role=all&agent=all&map_id=all&min_rounds=100&min_rating=0
Hopefully he gets rid of fr0d aswell (worst coach ITW, paycheck stealer)
Three more games.
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