Proposal for a Veto Rework

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#1
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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Note : if you do not agree this is not objective fact. CONSTRUCTIVE discussion would be nice but this is vlr so if you're that goblin moded. I feel bad for whoever cares about you. Be useful to the discussion

Honestly this was always a fun project to change veto
Because (and this is my opinion entirely)
Veto as a sentinel, feels unreliable especially with interceptor being the most 50/50 thing since Gekko's Value on Attack vs Defense
So my fixes

  1. Interceptor now works on a fuel system, with the maximum fuel lasting for 10 seconds, with a minimum up or down time of 3 seconds, and it cannot be retrieved while active
  2. Veto gets a new passive, that allows him to be immune permanently, to all TEAM utility. I.E if an ally throws a neon stun. You're fine, enemy throws neon stun, Not fine. Basically a weaker ult that works for only teammate utility
  3. Interceptor, now suppresses all enemies in its radius even through walls, and makes a tether to them(think like a terror trail of fade except as a straight line)
  4. Interceptor, works in a 15m radius(down from 18m)(to match its similar analogue in the KAY/O knife), with no vertical limit: The meaning-Veto's interceptor does not care at what vertical height you are relative to the orb, it only cares what horizontal displacement you are from it.
  5. Veto gets new voicelines telling how many agents are caught by interceptor, changing with number. I.E in a scenario where you caught 5 but then 2 left, when they leave it creates a new voice line of 3 caught. As well as the interceptor tethers being visible to both allies and enemies.
  6. Enemies can see the border of the Veto interceptor when within its radius only

The intent: It makes Veto's kit more RELIABLE in its work. My inspiration. Was Mute from r6 siege and its what the interceptor change was based on.
Because the fundamental problem with veto, interceptor is such a 50/50 based on the agent you're playing against and is so scenario specific that it's unreliable to play against or even play with especially for ranked where its so hard to predict in general. Now its more universal in nature and you actually have simpler mechanics to fight with and against it

#2
riensluvr
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nah the interceptor is fucked he shouldn't get player info from it

#3
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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Why not its literally by my proposal just a floatable kayo knife

#6
riensluvr
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oh it only is a short suppress once it's activated? 20 metres is HUGE so even a 3s suppress is a lot

#7
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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20m is a kayo knife
Edit nvm 15m is kayo knife

#4
zeronaluvr
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This seems way too overpowered

#5
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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Because?

#8
Mysticv1
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i feel like veto is very good right now, their tp is op. Eternal fire played veto on lotus and it was good and frost said that he believes veto is a good agent

#11
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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How much value did interceptor get?
I find the crosscut tp and chokehold trip as great tools. Use them all the time, but the interceptor is so painfully situational

Because the fundamental problem with veto, interceptor is such a 50/50 based on the agent you're playing against and is so scenario specific that it's unreliable to play against or even play with especially for ranked where its so hard to predict in general.
#12
HershieBoi
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Yea he’s not too far off from being viable I feel like either his trip or interceptor needs a buff tho

#13
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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The trip is reliably fine
Its why i only did interceptor buffs

#9
HershieBoi
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I heard this some somewhere but I like the idea of the interceptor be auto activated upon the first piece of util it sees, more like a trip that lasts for some time and rework his current trip.

#10
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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Its not bad as an idea
But its less reliable as a trip cuz baiting it is easy

#16
latiag
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If I remember well too it was sideshow's idea, making it unbreakable too. My only complain with it is that it will be a broken anti flood util that can recharge on attack

#17
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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If its unbreakable its a good deterrant but then its uncounterable which Riot dont like, new tejo meta

#14
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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Bump

#15
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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Bump

#18
Xool_233
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Tether line in a 15m radius is too much, I don't get why would he get a passive

#19
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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15m radius for context is the size of a kayo knife
So not as big, it covers a decent space but not infinite
As for the passive... Its beneficial to him

#20
Xool_233
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Just the voice line should be fine then

#21
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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Eh it works like both a tether and voiceline tell you how many were Caught in it. The tether doesn't hold them back
Its really just potatoe potahto

#22
frenzy_val
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Most of these changes by themselves make the interceptor really good so adding all of them at once seems crazy.
At the bare minimum you've got a lingering kayo knife that lasts for 10 seconds (already crazy good). The thing that makes kayo knife a difficult piece of util on defence is timing it right so you can completely shut down the enemies exec just as it's about to happen. This does that for you (don't have to time since it stays online rather than popping) and you can do it multiple times per round on only a 3 second delay. You said this makes the mechanics simpler to use and fight against but this seems even harder to fight against than his current interceptor. It also doesn't really seem like a reliability change as much as making it a direct strength upgrade.

#23
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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seems even harder to fight against than his current interceptor. 

I mean... You're still shooting ts regardless. As for fighting against it, because of the tether you'll know location + it does not affect lineups (the before one was weird where it might or might not)

As for:

don't have to time since it stays online rather than popping

You still have to time it with an exec. Just now its far more sustained and can be pre positioned. Its like how the chokehold is a fade seize except a trap, or crosscut an omen tp except you pre position it.

And:

3 second delay

The 3s is a minimun up or down time. Basically the same logic as the viper orb where once you put it up, you have to keep it up for a minimum time and once you deactivate you have to keep it down for a minimum time. For viper it was 5s

And the fuel system itself means that you can use it multiple times, within the same location

#24
frenzy_val
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Frags
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You're still shooting it of course but now you're suppressed before even going out to do so. Your smoker has to back up, you can't even use the util you used to be able to use (paranoia, breach stun and whatever else) and standing in a chokepoint smoke is a death sentence since they now have soft wallhacks on you thanks to the trail.

I don't really like the comparison of chokehold and fade seize in this case because that has a meaningful tradeoff. You get constant passive info in return for being breakable and slow to arm so you can't use it on the fly. For your version of an interceptor, you get more raw uptime compared to a kayo knife in addition to adding fuel controls at the cost of knowing where it is and not affecting lineups? That's not really a cost but more of a work-around imo. Fuel as a concept basically just makes insane agents by itself. Even if we completely disregard the idea of it suppressing for a second, you get 4 kayo knife scans in a round with this which is such absurd recon it's not even funny.

#25
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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Hmm... True
Probably just remove the info cycling and it should be fine

#26
jixk
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past 1. it is just a insane overbuff
2 . alone make him genuinely the best agent in the game best duelist in the game u just run double inti omen and throw the util at him when he ults legit u throw a skye flash at his head and pop it ro just before he peeks min flash is all he needs when he sees a enemy or paranoia him to win a retake outright
3-5. might as well delete kayo fuel based kayo clears

i could see 2 working if WHEN u got ur ult u can pop it with right click it uses half its charge to activate the passive for a round basically the passive becomes a 3-4 point ult or it is a passive specific to stuns/team dmg so u could walk into a after shock/breach stun while someone is moving away from it

#27
s0pp_fanboy2
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just add point 1 and make his e not reclaimable, otherwise it would be too good, though i like the fact that you can up and down it
everything else seems too op
why is it only his e as well?

#28
presence
0
Frags
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the passive (2) could be an interesting gimmick in pro play indirectly buffing breach and trap plays.
it's gonna be toxic af in ranked tho since you can just spam pop flashes and throw veto at the enemy

everything else is antithetical to the agent design there's no need to give him wallhacks/free info. he is an active sentinel meant to compete in chamber's niche, chamber has practically no info and he's still better than veto. giving him a free unbreakable infinite range kayo knife with wallhacks makes him the best initiator in the game even though the whole point of the senti class is to lock down the site as the enemies enter.

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