Fade is the most overrated agent in the game

#1

JonahPork

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Felt like I needed to get this off my chest bc G2 has been playing 0 Sova and only spamming Fade.

Fade is the most overrated agent in the game. Objectively speaking, in this current meta, Fade has much better utility than Sova. No one will dispute that. However, Fade SUCKS regardless because it is so much harder to perform individually on Fade than Sova due to the nature of the playstyle it necessitates. There isn’t a single player who has ever consistently performed on Fade except for Shao in 2022, not even Leo could. The utility trade off just isn’t worth the individual performance drop off.

#2

twigster001

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"overall better utility and teamplay isn't worth the drop-off in individual performance" wrap it up bro, usually you don't have bad takes but this one is 0/8

#4

JonahPork

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It just isn’t worth it, and NRG is proof of that. Brawk doesn’t play a single map of Fade and still proved himself to be an MVP level initiator player. He’s going to continue to do so and they will still succeed. Bookmark this

#7

twigster001

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Brawk's MVP level initiation is partly from his good utility, but also from his complete mastery of a weapon that nobody else knows how to utilize effectively. I don't think that the individual dropoff from playing fade would affect brawk as badly as anybody else because of the way he uses odin

#9

JonahPork

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Brawk has +0.17 rating on Sova compared to Fade lmao I promise it would affect him just as much as it affects anyone else

#14

twigster001

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he spams sova, so he'll naturally know that agent much better than fade. Hopefully it's an issue with experience and not a playstyle issue

#3

RealBallKnower

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I hope this is a ragebait because it's a bad take. Fade dog is very useful especially a map that have a lot of choke point and a smaller map. Util is one of the best for a retake and the Seize is very useful if you know how to use it.

#5

JonahPork

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You didn’t read what I said because none of what you said disputes what I said. I literally never argued against Fade’s utility being bad or worse than Sova’s

#8

RealBallKnower

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I've read what you said but eventually it all comes down to "utility" to decide the agent is good or bad. If utility is better than Sova how come it's harder to perform? Sova literally harder to play like 10 times.

#12

JonahPork

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It’s harder to perform because Sova plays closer to the back of the pack and Fade plays closer to the front due to the proximity of her utility. Drone makes you stagnant while dogs make you play at the front.

Also Sova players have shock darts which makes their fights easier bc of chip damage, there’s also Sova ults for kills and whatnot. It’s an objective truth that Sova players on average have better stats than Fades.

#31

RealBallKnower

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Sova can play at the front like Fade but they tend to bait more. It may sound a bit silly but it's the truth. Most people care about on this game is kd even in some pro scene

#50

serot

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I agree, sova is more of a backline agent and fade's util is more close up and aggressive
However your argument can be summed up as instead of throwing util and baiting your team, your initiator can't bait and needs to play closer to the front.

I don't see how that is a tradeoff for the team overall; someone needs to play up and if fade's kit favors that then let the initiator player play up. Regardless of what agent is played someone is gonna be in the front and someone is gonna be in the back. Fade utility hard clears sova's in terms of info value and maintaining map control off it. Even if the initiator player's stats suffer his team is usually better off for it.

This is ofc discounting individual comfortability. While fade is objectively a better pick on corrode, brawk runs sova for comfortability reasons. He is just a better sova player than a fade player. Meanwhile n4rrate is objectively a better fade player than sova player because he thrives in aggressive fights off his own utility. Your analysis is pretty much correct but you drew the wrong conclusion.

#54

JonahPork

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There are other agents more suited to playing up front, Fade is forced to play up front when she’s not really suited to create opportunities for herself in those scenarios. Baiting isn’t inherently a bad thing

#10

twigster001

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this doesn't even tackle the main argument of the post. The post talks about how while Fade has much better utility than Sova in the current meta, the playstyle required to use Fade to help the team effectively isn't worth the individual drop-off

#6

kfan4238173

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maybe i agree a little but idk abt the wording
also people should play more skye lowkenuinely

#11

twigster001

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Skye's been bad on every map other than bind since her flashes stopped being rechargeable

#13

kfan4238173

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nah shes tuff on split and lowkenuinely i dont think shes bad on corrode

#16

RealBallKnower

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You know ball, Skye on split is the only initiator you should play.

#17

twigster001

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I don't think that skye is good enough to justify a double initiator comp over a double controller comp on corrode seeing how viper is so good on that map

#19

kfan4238173

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nah highkenuinely viper is a must on corrode for me i agree, but you can play double controller with skye shushing face

#15

JonahPork

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Skye isn’t playable man no rechargeable utility is brutal. I think she’s underrated on Bind and Split tho, seems like teams are gravitating way more towards fade now.

#21

kfan4238173

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yeah i just think i see too much fade on bind and split, especially when the team doesnt play yoru

#22

JonahPork

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Yea solo fade without yoru makes no sense ngl, wanna start seeing teams run Raze Waylay Skye comps on those maps, that might go crazy

#23

catNmouse

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some teams were actually running that comp on bind notably FNATIC

#26

JonahPork

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Yeah fnatic is always really good at bind so if there’s any team I have faith in to make it work, it’s fnatic

#24

Feuerstern

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idt u can win multiple matcges in a row w that

#25

JonahPork

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Why not? It’s not really a gimmick comp. You aren’t lacking in any particular utility, you just give up the ability to fast rotate

#30

kfan4238173

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yeah ts tuff

#18

mondely

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individual performance on fade definitely suffers the worst when it comes to initiators, but her util is so useful its worth the tradeoff

#20

glittering_yard

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Br00ch is the most overrated

#27

Effluxi

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only because he's utter garbage and has been for years

#28

JonahPork

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Breach is genuinely just terrible in every way, has nothing to do with the playstyle of the agent

#29

Effluxi

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ive thought this for a while honestly. Fade needs some QoL, in particular I wish they'd tweak her so you don't need awkward inconsistent run and jump throws for over 50% of her lineups. Sova doesn't have to also time the landing of his dart for maximum value.

#32

shrike-

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you don't need to make an entire thread just because trent had a couple bad games on fade

#33

JonahPork

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Trent is just one of many players that are a victim of this. Invy is also a victim, riens will be a victim (he’s the best fade ive seen, but still a victim), Crashies is a victim, etc.

#34

foythvlr

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fade is cool as fuck thats what she is

anyways cauanzin champs 2023 was a pretty good fade besides his rating being mid (every other stat is good)

#35

JonahPork

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I think many players have had singular good Fade events but no one has consistently performed at an elite level on the agent across an entire season besides Shao (on the strongest version of the agent)

#36

foythvlr

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I mean i think thats because she was just never consistently meta at all

2022 she came in mid season (best version but still 2nd option behind sova most of the time), overshadowed by sova and skye during 2023, gekko meta early 2024, breach meta late 2024, and only became more relevant again this year but still overshadowed by sova and tejo (for most of the year)

#37

MrBlooBloom

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you know that's wrong you just wanna cope cuz trent is performing like shit on anything that isn't tejo

#41

JonahPork

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1.3 rated player on Sova makes trent closer to Leo than any other recon player. Almost every time he plays Sova he’s the best in the lobby. You’re seeing what you want to see and you’re not capable of realizing that most players underperform on Fade

Also trent played very good on fade at RBHG, that doesn’t mean anything. No one performed consistently on the agent

#49

MrBlooBloom

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it's pure cope really, there's no evidence to back it up

#51

JonahPork

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There is, you’re the one that’s coping cuz ur trying to find a reason to hate. Just look at anyone’s fade stats across an entire season and their Sova stats

#53

MrBlooBloom

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that's not how proofs work lol, you need to explain why would fade create inconsistencies in individual performances, stats alone don't say shit, they can be correlated to something entirely different

#55

JonahPork

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I’ve explained them in other parts of the thread, feel free to look instead of trying to ragebait me about trent

#56

MrBlooBloom

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the only beggining of explanation you gave doesn't explain much actually, I assume what you mean by it is that Sova allows you to bait more, which is pbb true, which give you better stats, but that is not an relevant point because having better stats =/= performing well. There again you didn't explain why would Fade be a cause of inconsistencies

#57

JonahPork

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You’re blind ig, so I’ll reiterate what I said. Fade is forced to play at the front because her utility requires it, but she does not have any utility that allows her to create opportunities for herself at the front, as opposed to agents like Omen which can tp, or agents like Kayo which can flash for themselves

#58

MrBlooBloom

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So basically what you're saying is that fade is bad because it doesn't allow to bait as well as sova and you're just going off of stats to determine wether an agent allows their players to perform well or not

#59

JonahPork

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Ok I’m honestly done replying to this post because somehow you’ve misunderstood me, on purpose or not, like 5 times despite me being very clear

continue thread →

#38

BerLINglazer

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There isn’t a single player who has ever consistently performed on Fade except for Shao in 2022,

BerLIN?

#39

kyro1

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joshrt been pissing me off recently with these terrorist comps how are we still playing breach??

#42

JonahPork

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He’s been pissing me off since Toronto ngl, no one’s gonna be willing to say it except me that at this current moment, he’s a bigger problem than babybay is. Everyone on the team is a victim of his comps

#43

catNmouse

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You would need to pray for a yoru nerf if you want things to be normal again

#44

JonahPork

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Ngl yeah, best way to win an event is to have a favorable meta shift, we missed our chance with Bangkok and they made a terrible decision to nerf tejo right before Toronto instead of stage 1. I’m confident g2 can have a resurgence if double initiator becomes meta again

#46

kyro1

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i mean g2 is still just fundamentally better than every team in americas but i miss when we were innovative like i genuinely cant remember the last time i was impressed by a unique g2 comp theory

#47

kyro1

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i dont think josh is a problem but i feel like something internally has changed on that team they would never have been doing this a year ago. and babybay to me is a none issue we could have won with icy and hes a lot better than icy

#48

catNmouse

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bangkok loss definitely changed them

#40

Xool_233

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Bro only looks at the stats and not the actual game

#45

serot

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n4rrate is a very good fade player, better than his sova imo

#52

JonahPork

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N4rrate is genuinely the one exception I’ve seen to this rule, he’s definitely an interesting player for that reason. I think it mainly boils down to his lack of Sova mastery rather than any inherent characteristic of the two agents, he only started playing Sova this year while many other players have been playing both for years