People will unironically say Keiko is a massive upgrade over s0m like their not both top 5 smokes players itw. For reference my list would be:
And almost 90% of lists will look pretty damn similar to this, so how can you in good faith claim #2 is massively better than #3 like bfr
even if you dont want him at 1 hes top 4 minimum purely based on results and output since toronto
I'd put karon over forsaken lmao forsaken is a top flex doesn't mean he's top 5 in every role
controller was his main role just like how chronicles was sentinel in 2025. jingg and something are the flex players of prx if anything
i love karon but he did not have anywhere near the same amount of success that f0rsaken did
Nah he is top 1 there is no way in hell he’s not no1 forsaken did you guys watch Toronto grand finals ????
Same can be said for s0m but he didn't need to play duelist. I think they can make it work.
s0m isn’t top 2 just because he won champs, he didn’t play anywhere near his 2023 peak this year
by his comms he was giving amazing util esp paranoias and making insane high stage presence plays. call it glazing but he had the same impact but different kinds.
The difference is that in 2023, it was his job to be the guy getting 20-30 kills. This year, his job was to be their second caller. In an interview, Ethan even referred to him as their "Second Leader". He also had a fantastic RAR for Champions Paris as a whole, beating out everyone on his team besides Brawk.
for reference: https://val.oracleselixir.com/stats/players/byTournament/113482263742879102
s0m didn’t start being vocal this year, he was doing the same in 2023 while also being the best player in the server most of the time, that version of him can be top 2 controller and top 5 player in the world, the current one cannot
mako, valyn and forsaken also are the IGLs of their teams and would play better with a bigger burden on them
the actual list is:
Yes he was vocal but my point is that in the 2023 team he was the person being set up to get kills. He was their piece. In 2025 he wasn't. He took a backseat for Skuba, Brawk, and Mada to be the teams "Carries". This is especially obvious when you look at their success on icebox. Instead of playing his comfort pick of Viper they had him on KJ but not just a regular KJ. Their entire system was built on him running it down to open space for his team on the map like a duelist would. This is pretty much the exact opposite of the way he was set up in 2023, where he kind of became known for being a baiter.
Also, for Valyn, I'd rank him at 1 if this were pre-champs, but his champs performance wasn't that good and I think that his calling style heavily lends towards his own success in a similar way Nats does.
Where is Spring? During his only chance to prove himself internationally he was the best smokes player at the event. His team struggling in stage 2 due to various factors and the new roster taking time to adjust doesn't take away from that.
Spring was great, but i have a hard time leveraging international success to regional, especially with how weak China looks as a whole right now, and unfortunately, he just didn't attend Champs. I was going to do an HM of v1c, Ruxic, and spring, but regional success is just too hard to value accurately.
might be reading this wrong but spring had his best performance internationally
Im saying it was a while ago. He was amazing at toronto but didnt make Champs so its hard to compare him to players who proved it more recently at champs.
recency bias is actually becoming a worrying phsychological issue to some of yall
Recent results do in fact matter when talking about the current state of something. Very surprising? And if anything, adamantly having spring in the top 5 is nothing but recency bias because hes only really been amazing for a short time during Toronto
as if the last fucking masters wasn't a fucking recent result bro come on please
He played like a god for 14 days, and you want me to say he's top 5 6 months later after being completely average in the weakest region and not qualifying to the biggest tournament of the year?
mf's acting like Spring hasn't consistently been their best player
you're just deluded.
You can debate if he's top 5 or not, but your arguments are guenuinely so dumb
"recency bias is actually becoming a worrying phsychological issue to some of yal"
And yet you want to claim a player who's only been a top 5 smokes for 14 days in the last 2 years of participating in VCT is top 5 six months later without any results to back that up? That's bordering on delusion. Spring is insane, but new events happen, and he hasn't been even close to as good as his Toronto form since then. It's not recency bias to not be stuck in the past.
S0m sneak after 1 champs is crazy. And best in the world makes no sense when he is retired.
Keiko top 3 smokes when profek was better in emea bahahahhaha
Firepower upgrade is what people say, everyone knows som’s coms and vibes make him more valuable
f0rsaken top 1 as an nrg fan when karon s0m keiko and smoggy exist and f0rsakon not even a dedicated smokes player is
Tbh i feel like smoke players kinda sucked this year, the only insane ones I remember were valyn whos an igl and ruxic and keiko. s0m played pretty mediocre for the most part this year, especially compared to his insane 2023. Mako was doing some of the dumbest shit while on igl +didnt frag like he used to, karon just didnt do shit internationally, f0rsaken has 2 events as dedicated smoker + mid asf stats...idk
s0m top 5 what a joke easily the worst player on NRG and just famous for being a streamer
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