EWC and Lockin both B tier
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| Registered: | May 5, 2025 |
| Last post: | July 13, 2025 at 11:49 AM |
| Posts: | 73 |
That's one way to ruin the greatest tournament performance ever
Never thought I'd be rooting for this team, but come the fuck on. Get this shit done
I watch every single Heretics game hoping they get 2nd place, but for the first time, I'm actually... rooting for them? Is it time?
The amount has nothing to do with quality.
comeback, Cyvoph, Kaajak, Sociablle, Ruxic, Profek, Lewn, and maybe Serial
Skuba, Verno, Mada, Lukxo, v1c, Sato, and Cortezia. You could also mention Spike, and Okeanos, but they haven't proven to be good yet, just highly anticipated.
So purely from a talent point, it's pretty comparable. Kaajak is just an insane outlier
Keiko isnt a rookie anymore and Cyvoph has been good but has no results to show for it. He's pretty much EMEA Lukxo
Lukxo, Mada, Skuba, Verno, v1c, and OXY are all good they're just on mediocre teams or haven't had time to prove it yet. While Kaajak is INSANE he did join the most storied roster in the history of the game.
If Fnatic 3-0 this grand finals, Chronicle will almost certainly put up the statistically greatest tournament performance ever. How is there even a debate at this point?
TL winning champs would be the best outcome cause every region likes them
It'll be the funniest timeline if EMEA bombs out of Champs but fortunately TL are winning it all
FNC have more proof of being #1 and KC played fnatic semi close while BBL got demolished by Heretics
also I said it from the start ill say it now Champs > Masters > Lock//IN = EWC
Though if Heretics get first place we all know this is mickey as fuck
I never understand the 8-team event argument. Like the 8 teams that are there, qualified to be there, they weren't just invited, and to get there they had to beat the teams that didn't go
2022 is Americas>EMEA. That entire year was defined by the Optic loud rivalry, and even if it was an unfortunate circumstance that didn't let FPX go to Reykjavik, we can't rewrite the past
If they'd been allowed to participate in Reykjavik, almost certainly, but history is history, and unfortunately, it has greatly diminished that entire roster's legacy.
Yeah, it might be recency bias to be fair, but one thing G2 has that DRX doesn't is that G2 was the de facto best team in the world for a good second, and DRX just didn't have that ever. No one ever really expected them to win, and that's the difference to me
If a team was never in contention for a title, I just can't put them on here
Tell me we're not letting Fnatic become 3 time trophy winners
Personally, I'd pick demon1 since he played more rounds at a similar level, but I have no gripes if someone wants to argue for KK
4/5 of EDG might not have played at that level until the GF, but Chichoo absolutely did. He was farming to the point you could argue the grand final was his worst performance despite being the 2nd highest rated player of the match.
The best player can not win the tournament; they just tend to. For instance, Chichoo and Trent at Bangkok were IMO the 2 best players, but Chichoo got 3rd and Trent 2nd. The same applies to Toronto, where I'd say Alfa was the best, but that case doesn't apply to Aspas really anywhere. The closest I'd get him to #1 is Reykjavik and Champs 2024 but yay was yay and Chichoo had a god tournament.
Aspas played half the rounds and had a lower rating at M1. While I agree KangKang is overrated at Champs, that grand final performance is what everyone thinks of when they think of the tournament, and even if you have Aspas over KK, Chichoo was better than both of them. He was better than Derke at Tokyo but Alfajer and Leo were EASILY better
Yeah i realized i missed tenz for Madrid probably should've been zekken tenz karon
And I couldn't stomach putting 4 players for Toronto, and Texture/Alfajer felt more impactful to me. F0rsaken was the MVP IGL and highest rated player of the winning team so he was definitely making the list
Just hear me out. What defines Aspas is longevity at the highest level, but he hasn't really ever been the best player itw, just almost always top 5
2021: Not present
M1: Yay
M2: Shao/Yay
Champs: Yay/Pancada
Lock//IN: Leo
M2: Alfajer/Leo/Derke
Champs: Demon1
M1: Zekken/T3xture/Karon
M2: Meteor/T3xture/Wo0t
Champs: Chichoo/ZMJJKK
M1: Trent/Izu/Chichoo
M2: Alfajer/T3xture/F0rsaken
I want an unbiased opinion on which of these events you honestly would say Aspas was better than anyone listed, cause I don't see it
DRX got dominated by SEN, who bottom out this list, and T1 is in a slump. They have the pieces to be near the top, but haven't been able to do anything since Bangkok.
for some reason i thought SEN actually did decent vs PRX and was taking that into account. Deff Heretics>SEN
PRX=Gen.G>FNC>G2=TL>NRG>=Heretics>=SEN
KC BBL 100T and MIBR haven't done enough to prove they belong here.
NRG played a good game vs Gen.G, and I'm biased, so deal with it.
Edit: Upon further consideration, this is the new ranking
PRX>FNC>=Gen.G>=G2=TL>NRG>=Heretics>>SEN
Don't switch up just cause we got eliminated. It's not a Mickey, and good luck to PRX on the b2b. NRG looks good and G2 should be back with leaf.
It's decent, but it's not the king of yellow. Get the man back on Viper
Yeah hes probably the best A tier in Americas and unlike OXY he's on a team where I can actually see him becoming S tier.
Even if they are a little overhyped, you have to admit watching them is fun. What other team with 3 rookies can actually punch with Gen.G.
leaf and zekken are aggressive enough to make up for the 2 bait kings
s0m - Controller/Senti
Leaf - Senti/Viper
Verno - Scan
Zekken - Duelist
Ethan - IGL Flex Inititator
Coach - JoshRT
AC - Zikz
edit: forgot about trent so probably him
Guys' roles do not make sense if Valyn, s0m, and Leaf are on the same team, and the only other flex initiator IGL is JohnQT, who is Moroccan.
edit 3: So much Ethan hate. Did 2024 rot your brains? He's literally just a JonahP that can IGL, and while his igling isn't historically proven yet, it's been good as of late
Is neon a little overrated rn? Seems like every team replaced their Raze comp with Neon besides PRX and has seen mixed success. Neon kind of feels like a highlight agent that's tricked everyone into thinking she's amazing when she's really pretty average. Even looking at Toronto Wolves PRX and Fnatic, all performed the best, coincidentally, the teams that played the most Raze by far
Ik but a man can hope. Please, please liquid, just fucking do something
I'd bet my life on FNC and TL going as long as Trexx doesn't blow up Liquid, Heretics are 70% and the last spot is pretty open between BBL, Vitality, and KC
Get rid of Talon and T1 and add RRQ. Add MIBR or 100T, whichever doesn't matter; they're close. BLG makes the list if KC makes the list.
Can't wait for all the people arguing EWC isn't a real tourney to switch up when PRX win it and become the 2nd b2b winners
"Your nats example doesn't work because he is literally better on sentinel and is defined by that role"
Skill level on the Agent doesn't matter? It just comes down to play time, and yeah if you want to get technical chronicle is a controller or sentinel player with Viper being his most played character by far, tho id more so lump viper in with the sentinels since the only map he doesn't play viper is icebox - coincidentally the only map where shes played as a traditional controller. Making him a senti player with his 4 most picked agents in the last 90 being Viper, Sage, Cypher, and Vyse.
and Chronicle vs F0rsaken isn't even an accurate comparison rn cause in the last 60 days, where 99% of PRX success has been f0rsaken has only played 4 characters to Chronicle's 7.
"Because keiko's not the main duelist on his team ands only runs secondary duelist when needed"
Because F0rsaken's not the main initiator on his team and only runs it when needed.
When it's needed, is the majority of the time. If Nats woke up tomorrow and decided to become the team's fade/sova player, he is now a scan player regardless of the fact that he's the goat sentinel. F0rsaken is the goat flex and is a flexible player, but currently he is primarily a controller player and should be ranked when ranking CURRENT controller players.
Okay, but the only reason 2/3 of the non-Toronto teams made it through is because g2 had a sub and XLG shouldn't have been at the event in the first place. The competition is master's caliber
His primary role on the team is smokes. Keiko and s0m are on the list despite one of them playing a good amount of duelist and the other playing 42% senti. Until PRX makes roster changes, he is a Smokes player, and he should be on the list
its 50% of his playtime last 90 days. He is prx primary controller player
In terms of trophy
Champs>=Master>LOCK//IN>=EWC>>>Regional>>>>>>>>>>Off Season anything
Yeah, S0m doesn't have the results to back it, cause NRG was a disaster for stage 1, but if you followed the game in 2023 or watched their recent games, you'd know S0m is insane. Also, while Karon hasn't been hitting in the most recent games, he's still the best Smokes player. His lowlights are other players' highlights.
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