nats propaganda

#1

vorro1x

are we deadass calling him a top 10 player of all time

Reykjavik DNQ
Berlin 1st
Berlin 2nd
Reyjavik DNQ
Copenhagen DNQ
Istanbul DNQ
Lock in 17-32nd
Tokyo 5-6th
LA 13-16th
Madrid DNQ
Shanghai DNQ
Seoul DNQ
Bangkok 5-6th
Toronto 9-12th

no hate to nats he’s goated in my eyes and one of my favourite players but let’s be realistic here

#2

Gutssz

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what top 10???? are you dumb?

he is easily top 3

#5

vorro1x

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delusional

he hasn’t even made an international playoffs in years

#10

cloudberry

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He hasn't had a half decent team in years

Why do you think he was DNQ for every tournament in two different years

#13

vorro1x

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ok and so have other players

#16

cloudberry

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For example?

#28

vorro1x

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like any star player on a shit team?

#30

cloudberry

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For example?

#31

vorro1x

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reading is hard isn’t it

#33

cloudberry

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True. Idk why it's this hard to understand that I'm asking for an example

#36

vorro1x

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shao yay

continue thread →

#63

notcabo

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W example bro

#37

notnorte

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i agree that nAts is a top 5 player all time, he is the "get X some help" player that many other teams have, but he is playing an incredibly valuable role (senti IGL) as opposed to players like Oxy, Meiy, or marteen who are undoubtedly world-class but are more common to come by

nAts and aspas are the top two players when it comes to solo winning you rounds

#45

noahkraken

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And so we should just give him 0% of the blame? It’s not like he was statistically playing that well either

#53

cloudberry

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He's an igl and his playstyle revolves around finding timings. Neither of those can be tracked with stats. If I was only looking at stats, I wouldn't think as highly of him

#56

noahkraken

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So then what metric do we use to say how good he is? If his teams have been largely irrelevant for years (even domestically) AND his individual stats are nothing special, then what argument is there for him being such an impactful player?

#58

cloudberry

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He's impactful because he opens up the map for his teammates in a way that other lurkers haven't been able to replicate until recently. He picked up igling at the end of last year and has proven to be one of the best callers in EMEA as well

What I'm trying to say is that you have to watch him play to see his impact. I guarantee you most of the people here that speak highly of him have seen him play a good multiple times

#62

noahkraken

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I definitely get your argument, I just think that if he’s as impactful to his team as people say he is, he should have some better performances on his resume. People like to say all of his old TL teams were garbage but I don’t think they were that bad either. I mean they won EMEA split in 2023 without nAts being a superstar hard carry

#64

cloudberry

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His teams weren't bad, they just never got any of the results that were expected of them. Team Liquid has always been good on paper but some of their players always fell short. That includes 2023, where yes, they did win the league, but they didn't find much success in internationals because someone was always having an off day

And he does have some great performances on his resume, mind you, Masters Berlin and Masters Bangkok especially... https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/466/valorant-champions-tour-stage-3-masters-berlin https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/2281/valorant-masters-bangkok-2025

#47

Fenr1s

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Isnt this exactly what the argument against tenz is? He didnt make lan for a couple of years? Oh but it doesnt seem to matter then that he had d0pphhh and those shitters on his team

#54

cloudberry

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Cmiiw but didn't TenZ have irl issues to deal with as well?

#42

z4kr9

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top 3 is delusional I say top 7 is fine

#65

WalmartTenz

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Easily top 3 is a bit much, but he is def top 10

#3

SENfns

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nats propaganda is on par with leo propaganda in 2025 vlr

#8

dimmed

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I won't deny spreading nAts propaganda but he is definitely top 10

#9

vorro1x

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but how tho? did u even read my post

bros missed 8 internationals and hasn’t made a playoffs in years

#20

dimmed

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that says nothing about him as an individual and everything about the teams he's been on. nAts has been a world-class player for 5 years that i being bottleneck'd by his team

#22

vorro1x

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achievements matter

#34

dimmed

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so why do people always argue Aspas is the greatest duelist oat, why don't people argue Meteor above Alfajer considering they have won the same amount of trophies. Achievements do matter but they aren't everything, longevity and how you affect the meta matter a lot too.

#35

vorro1x

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because Aspas has been consistently a top 3 player in the world for the last like 3 years

and he literally got 2nd at a masters won champs, 2nd at lock in and has gotten top 3 in the last 2 champions

#49

noahkraken

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Aspas also has the advantage of being incredible statistically both internationally and domestically. nAts has been far from that

#67

Zaba

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Don't compare my goat to that overrated baiter

#69

Effluxi

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Leo was good literally once at least nats has finishes outside of one year

#4

GodAwfulLover

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Take the flair off right now you fucking fraud

#6

vorro1x

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you can like a player and team without being delusional

#14

Congo1

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After he wins champs he will be top 3. Its okay

#17

vorro1x

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if he wins champs he’s top 5

#24

Kkduka

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Are you serious or being delusional for calling yourself supporter instead of hater

#25

vorro1x

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how is it hating bruh, did u even read my post

#40

Kkduka

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It's team game not solo game so him not making international doesn't put him out of top 10. Nats is currently and oat definitely in top 10 it's just 5 places have been occupied by finatic players so bcz they have the strongest team now you can't put derke in top 10 just like nats was in past

#7

eKay

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its the most hipster take of all time

pushing propaganda calling him the goat from "analysts" like rooket boolets 😂😂

#11

SleepingSnorlax

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He is lol he defined a entire playstyle which till date even his ex teammate uses as well he made the setups which is used by most of the sentinel players and he is still making new ones

#15

vorro1x

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lurking has been a thing for years in cs

#21

SleepingSnorlax

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At least for Val my guy even if lurking was during prime era of cs

#27

vorro1x

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people were gonna lurk either way lol idk why people act like he invented lurking the same way thomas edison invented the light bulb

#50

Fenr1s

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downvoted for the truth apparently people forgot that all of these val pros were ex-cs and every single one of them knew what lurking was

just because nats did it well doesnt mean he created it

#19

wordlelover

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Bro get his cock out of your mouth, he did not define an entire playstyle

#23

SleepingSnorlax

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First qualify for champs

#59

wordlelover

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His cock is still in your mouth bud. I could care less for wolves

#12

Ronyko23

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And nats chamber to start 2025 bahahahahahahhaha

BLud started tweaking against EDG..

#18

babushka_boii95

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glory hunter ass take

#26

Ronyko23

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Nats got no excuse now with crazy good team.

Lets wait for champs if nats all that or not.

#29

babushka_boii95

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sure if visa issues dont fuck him over

#32

Nats_2nd_biggest_fan

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What propaganda bro, there is none

#43

jund

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"propaganda" 😂😂😂😂😂😂

#46

foythvlr

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He is a top 10 of all time idk what to tell you lmfao

#48

vibemerchant_25

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I think the community as a whole is completely blind to non statistics impact. nats is an absolutely insane player who has both the conventional stats, igling, proper leadership and insane reads in game. Unfortunately he is a goated support player, which means he can't do much when he's given meh teams. If you put boaster on a third rate team he isn't gonna look insane. He's gonna look like an idiot who can't shoot cause his team isn't good enough to utilize his igl strength. That's the problem with nats. He's too good for most of the rosters he's on.

#52

noahkraken

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I mean you could argue the other way though. The fact that he’s had no international success and failed to qualify for so many tournaments means that he might not be as impactful to his team’s success as people say he is. Also, his conventional stats are nothing to write home about

#55

Quavers

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"his conventional stats are nothing to write home about" is just a fat lie

#60

noahkraken

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He was excellent at Bangkok and been great in stage 2. He was only above average at best in every other split or international since kickoff, and that’s only because I didn’t keep scrolling back

#57

vibemerchant_25

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Nah that's wild. Nats is an igl playing senti and viper. He's not gonna drop 30 every game but he regularly drops 20+ as a fkin sentinel. He literally just dropped 30 playing viper ffs. If you expect him to drop 200 or something before you think he's impressive I think no one in the world is that good.

#66

x_knowitall39_x

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sentis whole job is to shoot why are you saying it like sentis shouldnt be dropping high frag games. good teams normally have their sentis as their top fraggers besides duelists yk

#61

glittering_yard

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mfs acting like nats wasnt AFK for 3 years, its just like Tenz but even worse

#68

UvuvwevwevweOnyetenyevwe

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his propaganda is strong