Do u agree with G2 coach?
3/4 first seeds from shanghai also went to the lower bracket immediately
in master Tokyo only one lost who were direct in playoffs other 3 won maybe now day team foucs more on anti strat then inovating it self
all that time to prep and all they did was swap tejo for fade or sova. Cope2 needs to stfu
i cant see drx in this master and yet you're saying sentinels got lucky!? what are you taking bro give me some.
What's even more insane is that if you include Master Shanghai, 7/8 first seeds teams lost their opening matches
I think the better teams won.
Momentum can be a big part of that but if G2 is supposed to be this god-tier roster, why are they losing to PaperRex? G2 should've been thrilled to play against that style.
Paper Rex was one of the teams that suffered because of the Tejo meta, while G2 was the opposite. We're just seeing the results of the new meta play out.
this really isn't about G2 losing to PRX, literally every 1 seed lost...
I could easily talk about RRQ or FNC here
FNC lost because they couldn't close out the first map. But also, GENG just looks like the better team thus far.
RRQ probably lost because of Wolves momentum.
you are contradicting yourself how did wolves get this momentum from playing in swiss stage
both RRQ and Wolves are at their first international. Obviously it makes sense a team like RRQ would have some nerves and Wolves feel more comfortable because of the swiss stage.
But G2 has been to the past four international events. I already said up above that momentum can be a huge factor, but G2 lost because they were the worse team. Not because Paper Rex got momentum, they had that momentum in their regional playoffs but still got 3rd.
if wolves were first seed and they skip swiss stage you genuinely think they beat rrq and geng
More comfortable? All these #1 seeds had all the time in the world to watch these swiss stage games and anti-strat whilst cooking their own stuff that no one would've seen.
If anything, the #1 teams were more comfortable because no one had any clue what they were cooking. Especially right out of a meta change. They had all the advantages in the world and still lost.
That's the thing, they had all the time in the world, but they started the playoffs with 0 games played while the Swiss stage teams were coming in hot with 2-3 games already. Antistrating and coming up with new ones is nothing if the players aren't warmed up.
Also, including Masters Shanghai, the 1st seed teams are 1-7 in matches and 3-14 in map count. Skipping straight to playoffs is more of a disadvantage
I'm gonna say it again because I truly believe it. The better teams won. Momentum and stage reps are great but the better team won.
Masters Shanghai, the only #1 seed to win was 100T. Which makes sense, because G2 was a tournament favorite, GENG was a runner up in Madrid and won the event, and Team Heretics got runner up in Shanghai and in Champs. All of these matches, the better team won. The three swiss stage teams that won in Shanghai all placed top 3 and 100T placed 4th.
The same is true for Toronto. You can use the numbers 1-7 all you want but its just cope. These aren't regional match ups, its very common to see other regions #2 and #3 be better then other regions #1.
What happens if they switch the format and the #1 seeds still lose out? Are we to just keep catering to the #1 seed so they can win? If they were the better team, they would've won.
The better teams won
no, they don't. prx wouldn't win vs g2 if they didn't have experience and matches before
Everyone holds G2 to this higher standard and they're a great roster, but they can't beat Paper Rex? They barely scraped by Liquid and got rolled by GENG. If G2 is supposed to be such a great roster, they would've won, plain and simple.
As to your point, the better teams won. Because that's what it means to win. You were better that day. If G2 has another bad day tomorrow and bombs out of the tournament, are we to blame it on format or just call it what it is: they had a bad tournament.
The advantages G2 had going into this heavily outweigh the advantages of a team like Paper Rex getting momentum. G2 lost because they were the worse team. It's even worse when you acknowledge the amount of time they had extra to anti-strat and cook up their own comps that no one would know about. You're coping because you lost to a better team.
there are no real advantage bro. g2 had to scrap their tejo gameplay, but to build one, they need real test. the reason prx won is they have advantage in experience in real matches vs weaker team. they can polished their gameplan in swiss stage
They had all the time in the world to polish their game plans in practice where no one can see what they do, like what every roster did for swiss.
scrim vs stage matches is very different. prx has massive advantage polishing their weakness and gameplan
jakecid my friend you have truly exposed yourself for being an idiot who uses lots of words to make nothing points.
PRX beat a very bad TH, destroyed by GenG, choked 12-8 and almost a 12-3 to TL.
They only reason they won is because they were more comfortable. Not because they are better.
resulting to insults because you're coping. the better team won.
all of my "words" prove the point of better teams winning. but since you don't like evidence based arguments, i'll keep it simple for you.
G2 lost because they were the worse team that day, not because of the format.
I'm not coping and i only insult you because you seem like a genuine idiot.
winning ≠ better team
it seems like cope but he does have a pretty solid point cant really disagree
This is astronomical cope. He has to quit making excuses and learn to stop making mistakes.
Yeah and im talking about PRX barely won TL is not a bad performance since TL actually played really good.
Just to be clear im not downplaying TL here. Im saying i dont think theres big momentum cause i imagine PRX win was a bit bittersweet, since they almost lost in a very embarassing way. Not because TL was bad but because it was almost a huge comeback. TL played very well and prob deserved the win
they get to skip Swiss that’s good enough. Think about the 1st seed teams that will go or have gone 0-2. how many of them do you really think would’ve made it out of Swiss
kinda, yes; also the players making their debut straight up in playoffs has a lot of effect on them, as they haven't gotten used to the crowd and stuff so they are likely to lose game 1, that's the case for RRQ and XLG they couldn't perform to their maximum capacity
no, he has a point but no, getting eliminated in swiss guaranteed 0 champ points, is it worth the risk? 1st seed reward is instant playoffs and just win one series and you get points. they are not only already in playoffs, they also have more time to practice, rest, and watch their opponents. it is still true those teams have momentum but it’s not like these first seeds don’t have advantage themselves.
Yes, 100% this. There are always advantages and disadvantages. However, if I was on a team I'd rather start in groups just for a chance to play more matches and gain more experience against higher level opponents. Risking getting knocked out earlier
But if your goal is to win the event you have better chances by starting in playoffs
yes, thats why it is a big advantage to skip, there is also another one where they can choose their opponents but i dont think its that important. g2 also is way ahead of champ points in americas, but other regions are way closer, maybe g2 has the luxury to risk bombing out early but for other 1st seeds i dont think its easy to say the same
Sure momentum can be a real thing but is everyone forgetting that these teams played 2 or 3 more matches in a week? Theyve gotta be exhausted already while the first seeds were doing god knows what with their time. XLG and RRQ might get a pass since theyre new to international and one team had a sub, but nobody should feel bad for G2 or FNC. They would be singing a different tune if they had won. Sore loser
Momentum sure but when u do the same thing that has been done for years comp wise or just replicate ur league stuff with nothing new on top ur gonna get smashed
Like g2 didn’t do anything new macro wise or micro wise…
Just copium
However, there is an advantage during a meta shift for being able to test new ideas and practice them against worse teams. Imo that's the biggest advantage
he's right. all 1st seed team lost their opening is the indication. in master 2 2024 last year too. only 100t (1/4) is the team that won their opening game
the 4 teams that won in the opening round of playoffs in Shanghai were top 4 of the event, or in other words, the better and best teams.
But that's not the argument tho, the argument is that being in groups allows one to get the experience and momentum to be the better team.
No one is saying that the worse teams won, just that being a 1st seed is actually a detriment not an advantage, which just seems to be true based on the results of both events
yeah, also, prx has become better than ever because their matches against TL and TH. the 4 teams swiss is better because of it
I agree with JoshRT, but unfortunately, others won't really listen to him because it sounds like cope. I play tennis tournaments, and I experience this same exact phenomenon. Whenever I get a bye, I typically struggle in my first match and maybe even lose--getting sent into the consolation/lower bracket. However, whenever I don't get a bye, I usually do better later on. I get more reps in, and I don’t have to worry too much about losing the first round, since it’s usually against weaker opponents compared to the second or third round where I would start if I got a bye. IIRC, nearly every single tournament I’ve placed first or second in, I didn’t have a bye. Tennis and Valorant are pretty different though, so I don't really know how this affects professional valorant. From what I see, though, I think it does affect it as it isn't normal for all #1 teams to lose in that fashion.
I did try to find a solution https://x.com/Meghannyah/status/1934311450249408995
It's more simple than the previous solution I've thougt about
Discord