Csgo has low skill ceiling?

#1

JokesOver

https://twitter.com/RLewisReports/status/1636103932089978886?t=8QJqNdeIjQHV8fMC5-OWHw&s=19

#2

number1_MIBR_hater

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KEK

#3

Typical_NA_Fan

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anyone who plays cs has low skill so yeah low skill in general

#7

laurus

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That's why Valorant legends are tier3 rejects who achieved nothing in CS?

#9

Typical_NA_Fan

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Valorant requires brain, unlike CS where its fans have small enough brain to come on Valorant forum and try to talk about how their game is better. Crawl back to HLTV gremlin...

#46

laurus

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CS requires more brain unironically, in Valorant all you need to take a map is win both pistols

#61

ReaverVandal

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https://www.vlr.gg/167365/team-vitality-vs-global-esports-champions-tour-2023-lock-in-s-o-paulo-omega-ro16

Braindead take, GE went 6-0 on pistols and still lost the bo3. There are many examples of teams losing both pistols and still winning map. Yes pistol rounds are important but they do not determine the entire map.

#65

laurus

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In Valorant there's only 13 rounds to win and very rewarding pistols, in CSGO there's 16 rounds, everyone with a brain understands that Valorant is a much more random esport, especially when meta shifts so often.

#72

Trykan

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Don't the frequent meta shifts show that Valorant also has a high skill ceiling just in a different way

#76

laurus

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In that aspect, yes. But at the same time, Valorant is a lot more random. It's been 2 years of internationals and not a single team won a global event twice, and only 1 player won it twice.

#92

miniature

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the same teams/players are there tho

#93

NightBeam

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Its happens in CSGO too, tho.

continue thread →

#116

tuxmko

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thats because valorant does not have the same aspects in sense of utility like csgo, its more complex cause of riot
its their version of a csgo, r6 and overwatch mashup

#73

Darkobas01

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He actually has a point, teams winning both pistols have a probability of 0.7 / 70% chance to win the map.

#77

laurus

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As the person above said, statistics shows that in majority of games (70-80%), winning pistols guarantees you a map

#83

Typical_NA_Fan

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I like how he said 70% and you just boosted it to 80% for lulz

#85

laurus

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Because I saw it's 80% somewhere else

#90

Typical_NA_Fan

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Source?

#99

laurus

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https://i.redd.it/bsidtiazuuq71.png

#91

Typical_NA_Fan

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https://www.vlr.gg/169011/tsm-vs-disguised-challengers-league-north-america-w5/?game=114797&tab=overview

Lost 6 pistols and won lol

#98

laurus

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I can find a lot more examples of the exact opposite

#100

laurus

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.

#114

Moiraine

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that's 1 example
Nobody said it NEVER happens. The player quality disparity made it possible in this case.
You cannot deny that the vast majority of games where a team wins both pistols ends in a map win. 1 or even 20 examples out of thousands does not make that statement wrong.

continue thread →

#109

smizuu

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bro got ratio shame shame

#115

Danny

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Csgo has no rechargeable smokes, the same movement speed for everyone, no maps with 3 bombsites, less diverse utility, and no ultimates

Val to CS is like comparing chess to checkers

#117

laurus

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Funny take. CS players fundamentals are so much better than in Valorant. And no, it's not a game without strategies you think it is.

#119

Danny

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CSGO strats be like: default until 15 seconds left then throw basic smokes and hope enemy is out of util

#12

zeldrols

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Tier 1 scene In csgo is an absolute joke other than g2. Holy these teams dropping games against tier 2 and tier 3 teams so often now.

Imagine liquid still rank top 5 cs team losing to rare atom rank 72 team in 2 0 dominantly. Second map was 16 3 for rare atom. These guys are actual pay check stealers.

#45

laurus

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Looks like you've never watched CS. The level of gameplay there is so much higher than in Valorant, here every match in tier1 has a random result

#78

Ullyr

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bro stop the troll lmao its so obviously. You telling me Rare atom vs liquid was a top tier game LMAO

#80

laurus

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That's one time occurence

#112

zeldrols

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Yes ence vs Chinese bots rare atom top tier game too LUL 16 3 first map. Liquid lost to this BTW embarrassing.

#51

laurus

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Tier 1 scene in CSGO right now is stronger than ever before, that's why even tier2 teams take maps off tier1

#54

koromast

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so tier 2 takes maps off tier 1 because tier 1 is strong?????? bro i dont know if even you dont understand what you tried to say, but it doenst make sense.

#62

laurus

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Yes, skill ceiling in CSGO is way higher than in Valorant, hence even tier2 in CS is much stronger by fundamentals, that's why they're catching up

#81

koromast

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if its higher, tier 1 should be higher than tier 2 by miles, thats not how skill ceiling works man, like let me explain, the higher the skill ceiling is, the harder to catch up tier 1 because of them improving day by day.

#88

laurus

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You don't understand. CSGO scene is just so stacked with very good tier2 teams, that the gap between tier1 and the best teams of so-called tier2 becomes almost non-existent.

#94

koromast

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ok that makes sense, but skill ceiling still has nothing to do with it LMAO

#101

laurus

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Valorant doesn't require as much individual skill to reach the top as CS does

Valorant has bigger hitboxes and slower movement, meaning it's simply a lot easier to kill enemies than in CS, you don't need to be as precise

#95

miniature

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So, the game is the at the best its ever been, and teams are closer together than they've ever been. thats YOUR point??

#102

koromast

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hi mini

#55

capital_d_colon

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nah the top echelon of tier 1 is really bad right now.
outside of g2 and heroic/faze alot of the top rosters have alot of problems

#63

laurus

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It's not really "problems", they play well, it's just that the scene has grown from top heavy to very stacked

#67

capital_d_colon

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navi have igls problems
liquid have oSee
cloud9 just made a terrible roster move
vit has apex (decent igl terrible fragger)
outsiders is boring
og's igl is stepping back for personal reasons.

#69

laurus

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My guy all of these teams are still very good, it's just that the standards have changed

#57

capital_d_colon

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Tell me you dont know how the hltv rating system works.

besides if vlr had a global rating system you would see this too.
When prx lost to LaZe that wouldve been like a top 5 team losing to rank 132.

#59

gamr

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hltv ranking isnt always accurate lol. Rare Atom is on a 14 bo3 winning streak rn. its ridiculous for them to even be ranked that low.

#110

zeldrols

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Lmao they beat Chinese bot teams. Look at them now getting hard rolled by ENCE. Liquid is trash af losing to this trash team. Tier 1 scene exposed...

#14

wizardbot

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Seems like they also have very fragile mentality that they have to come to valorant forums to jerk off about cs

#71

Jeffo

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Stewie2k is one of the best cs players of all time and he struggled in tier 2 qualifiers.
They're different games, most of the top cs players wouldn't make it in valorant and vice versa.

#79

ash_knuckles

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is he tho. is he really.

#82

Marshal_D_Teach

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He isn't

#103

laurus

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Most of the top CS players would absolutely make it in Valorant if they dedicated enough time

Stewie2k is a nobody in CS for several years, not nearly the best player of all time, not even top-50

#108

hekzy

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Well TL is an NA team so your comment about low skill checks out.

#4

DIEM

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Stop talking about CSGO in a Valorant forum site 🤡

#32

JokesOver

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Came across this tweet from Richard Lewis and was geniunely curious about what others think. This is not a val vs cs post

#58

solsolid

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then make a thread at hltv

#64

JokesOver

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Dont have an account

#113

TSM_Shreyash

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then make an account

#84

Marshal_D_Teach

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It is. Don't be cynical

#87

NightBeam

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Don't lie to yourself, bruv. Every topic talking bad at CS/HLTV you are there.

#5

ash_knuckles

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low floor, high ceiling. valorant is the opposite.

#6

capital_d_colon

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nah valorant has a lower floor.
the skill ceiling in valorant is pretty high considering all the new agents and maps.
Util combination and other strats still have a long way to go

#10

zeldrols

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Skill ceiling of valorant gets higher with every new map and agent. Compare the strategic depth of this game today to 2 years ago lol.

#17

capital_d_colon

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yeah im agreeing with you. i think i just came across wrong.
the wide variety of agents and constant updates is creating a high skill ceiling .

#25

zeldrols

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Like imagine going pro in this game in 2 more years. U have to learn like 10+ agent for ur role. The strats would get crazy if they don't add a pick and ban phase.

#30

gamr

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Are you stupid? There’s 3 agents this year, probably 3 next year as well. How do you expect there to be 10 per role? Most pros don’t learn even more than 3 per role nowadays.

#38

zeldrols

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The gist of what I'm saying is the same. A pro in the future is expected to learn many agents and roles. The skill ceiling of the game just gets higher.

#19

Mbappe

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exactly, team could get away with running phoenix on multiple maps or double duelist everywhere. Now you would get exposed easily for that

#13

Typical_NA_Fan

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Valorant has different abilities for each agent, doesn't matter in cs where you can buy same util for each member of team

#15

gamr

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Valorant is also significantly easier mechanically.

#18

Typical_NA_Fan

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are you referring to aim-wise? Seems more mechanically difficult to memorize multiple agent util use mechanisms and lineups with skill depending on map vs cs where you just need 1 set of lineups for each map, no?

#23

gamr

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Yes I mean aimwise. And the utility lineups are equally difficult in both, except you need way less lineups for ranked in val than in csgo.

#22

ash_knuckles

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i'd argue that it's a bit harder to consistently two/three-burst than learn the ak spray, but that's just imo. also val has way more mechanical aspects to it than cs

#29

gamr

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I didn’t necessarily mean spray patterns, although I do think spray patterns are harder than bursting. I meant in the sense that head hitboxes are significantly bigger in valorant than in csgo, so it’s easier to kill people. And also you don’t need to counter-strafe in Valorant. There are no important skill jumps that you can utilize in valorant unlike csgo. All these little things that make csgo more mechanically challenging.

#48

ash_knuckles

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its kinda hard to guage tho, as valorant has a plethora of mechanical aspects to their agents, with raze being the most mechanically challenging agent. but i'm inclined to agree ig. CS hands out way stiffer punishments for mechanical flaws, and the gunplay in valorant/tools for improvement of said gunplay (dms) are just bad, so its harder to be consistent, as i had a harder(and less fun) time learning how to consistently burst than learning how to spray for some reason

#68

laurus

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Hitboxes in Valorant are bigger and character movement is slower

#16

ash_knuckles

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in my exp cs' spray patterns and common util were way easier to learn than val. CS has wayyy better tools for improvement tho, so that's a major contributing factor.

#24

capital_d_colon

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Valorant have alot of entry level agents to help new players.
Like brimstone for example, who simplifies the concepts of smoking to point and clicks instead of lineups.

Spray patterns arent that important in val imo. (until you hit the higher level)
Tapping and burst firing is more important

I would say comparing the two games.
Valorant has a lower skill floor and both games have around the same skill ceiling at the top level.
having a low skill floor isnt a bad thing btw

#33

ash_knuckles

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those entry level agents aren't viable for most maps tho, and you'd have to learn how to properly utilise the util kits of at least one or two agents to even be considered average at whatever role you start off with. couple this with the fact that you must know at least two roles to properly improve and climb the ranked ladder, and you end up with a higher floor. Hell, i think a higher ceiling as well lol

#41

capital_d_colon

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The skill floor is the minimum skill to perform in a game.
I think its still lower in valorant.
Alot of what you are saying doesnt involve the floor what so ever, its more about moving away from the floor.
Valorant simplifies some of the fps elements but enhances the depth of different elements of the game.

#53

ash_knuckles

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skill floor = the minimum amt of expertise req to perform at a just-below-average level = basic-intermediate mastery of util kits of at least two agents. still, i think higher floor.

EDIT: it depends on what you consider the skill floor to both games tbh.
if entry level val/cs = simply moving and shooting, then cs> val skill floor
idk if i can classify simply moving and shooting as the valorant skill floor tho, but that's a debatable opinion ig ¯_(ツ)_/¯

#8

zeldrols

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Csgo tier 1 scene getting hard exposed. Literally random tier 2 tier 3 teams can beat them now. The scene been so stagnant for so long. It's actually embarrassing how liquid just lost that so badly against rare atom.

#52

laurus

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Hard exposed? No, tier2 is just catching up

#11

gamr

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It’s just Liquid doing Liquid things. Don’t overthink it

#20

zeldrols

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Froze won Navi 2 1... and Spirit beat Astralis 2 0.. lmao that's why he made this tweet. It's just so inconsistent in tier 1 cs atm.

#27

capital_d_colon

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spirit beating asstralis is not the upset you think it is

#31

gamr

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Spirit beating Astralis 2-0 is heavily expected lmao. This isn’t 2019. Also Navi and losing to random CIS teams, name a better duo. 2020 Navi didn’t even win the CIS RMR iirc. This shit is nothing new, idk why we are acting like it is.

#36

reycac

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astralis and t1 in the same sentence

#39

zeldrols

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What is consider tier 1 in csgo other than G2 atm ? Heroic just recently lost to eg as well lmao. Full on cope .these "upsets" are happening way too often now.

#42

reycac

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you are t1 based on consistency,theres a reason heroic is t1 and eg isnt and if u dont understand that ur braindead

#47

zeldrols

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Richard Lewis is right csgo tier 1 scene in shambles but ppl still coping lol.

#50

reycac

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you just said t1 doesnt exist bot

#60

gamr

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i think he's legitimately an npc, idk what to say.

#111

zeldrols

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You're an npc to say rare atom was good KEKW. Justify that liquid win more, getting hard roll by ence. Tier 1 cs a joke.

#66

laurus

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"In shambles" = not as dominant as supposed to be
In reality, tier2 teams are just getting better

#40

acels2

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tf? thats a 3 game sample size out of 4 EPL groups. same shit happened in valorant? TS beat TL

#49

zeldrols

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You're comparing established rosters with proven record to brand new rosters/teams in a new franchise league for a introduction period lol. No one knows who is good or not.

#21

lulshotXD

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Here we go again!!

#26

Netero

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Yes most overrated esport of all time. AWP broken beyond repair, no scope has no accuracy drop off, fully accurate mid air (coldzera mirage clip no skill), all shotguns can kill in 2 hits from a mile away, smgs fully accurate while running, AK bullet inaccuracy, EZ smoke kills, Full running no scope scout headshots, SG scope way easier than ADS vandal or phantom. It's practically impossible to whiff an awp shot and the only goat conversations in cheater strike are for awpers cuz it's so EZ

#28

zeldrols

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Valve need to get up their asses and balanced shit or fix bugs. I hope they actually do shit with source 2. Meta been so stale. Tier 1 teams so unmotivated it feels like.

#34

UnrivaleD

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add this chapter to the bible

#35

acels2

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rare netero L, a weapon that cost 5k should actually be useful

#37

Netero

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It should be 10k, it's like if you're in 1st place in Mario Kart and you get a bullet bill on the final lap!

#43

acels2

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nah , awp actually gets fucked by flashes, thats why its a high skill weapon and donkeys like oSee are bad with it

#44

evvve

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weird superiority complexes over videogames

#56

proud_bandwagoners

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Valorant vs csgo thread 2762552627

#70

stewie2k

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rare atom beating liquid is NOT an upset

#74

Darkobas01

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How do you define higher skill ceiling? Both games are completely different in movement, utility, shooting mechanics, etc. Also, none of the games is easy at top level. I have played both games for probably thousands of hours, I'm MGE-DMG in CS and D1-D2 in valorant, which pegs me among the top 15% of player base (nothing special) of both games exactly.

#75

condsicc

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The only thing that is really different between both is utils. idk much about csgo movements but shooting mechanics are basically the same.

#105

Darkobas01

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Movement in CS is much faster. To compensate that, CSGO has fixed spray patterns for each gun. Also, there's no anti-strafe needed to correct the shooting error in valorant unlike CSGO (you need to press the movement key opposite to the direction in which you are moving to stop faster in CS).

#86

hanafuji

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me when CS:GO exists 😡😡💢💢💢

#89

NightBeam

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People calling tier 3 teams beating tier 1 in CS. This actually doesn't matter much since those tier 3 teams aren't winning tournaments over tier 1. In the other hand Acend is a Champions winner

#96

crashhacker1

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I realized valorant was doing well when valve started tempting source 2 officially the past year. The source 2 stuff by valve proves that they consider valorant a proper threat (which it is) but, its good to get confirmation. I would like to add that both games help each other at the moment due to their contrast against each other keeping the FPS scene fresh. Both views should only keep increasing if things are going the same way as they are now.