Ready to switch for a CN flair ?
| Flag: | France |
| Registered: | December 21, 2022 |
| Last post: | July 31, 2025 at 9:18 PM |
| Posts: | 4370 |
Ready to switch for a CN flair ?
Not talking about master, talking about regular season ^^
APAC flag, EMEA name, living in AMER this is a little disturbing @.@
Do you think it would be doable to hold VCT Americas in Los Angeles with all the problem LA have ?
Is that even possible to held it in USA with all the VISA problem team might face in the future ?
What potential US city would you call to replace Los Angeles ?
What potential country would you call to replace USA is visa problem become too big ?
Thats a problem for monocountry T2, but vast majority of T2 have more than one country. In France and Brasil, we have enough big org to make a full sustainable T2 because people are already connected to team thanks to influencers the key to make T2 fun, is to create T3.
Take a region with barely no strong identity like Polaris, that end up with a lot of mix, create one T3 region for each region that cost almost nothing, give the top 2 winner a slot in promotion with the top Premier team, doing that, you augment the number of T2 team that represent a small nation.
Second exemple, SEA, now they have all merge, they should all have their T3 region, and have a full system that ensure every T3 region got at least one representant in the T2 (one solution to make it work here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_fOPBPWl_w)
If everyone is represented in SEA megaregion, then we will have mush more hype in the T2
And the solution to make T3/national league that will bring state representation in T2 work for almost everyone :
And if some region lack of national rivalries, then we can change how the T2 region are made... TR region lack of hype ? Just add Greece (And ensure at list one or two Greek team is add), viewership will literally double
You did forget TH and FUT, they font loose a map for the next 2 day and I haf I can predict I see no reason why thoose 2 shouldnt count :c
As a French, I watched VIT vs KC with a lot of hope, thinking both team could be good. And god ! This one was an horrible Abyss, KC have such a superior composition, but they were never able to take space(When they did they instantely loosing it just beacause they leve), the basic concept of "deposit" was inexistant, they're always ending to make a 4 man push on a stacked site, it was absolutely insane, 0 strategic depth,... they managed to take a lot of thoose round but that was so bad. FNC was absolutely horrible (No guys, you can't play 0 reveal composition since S3, this is a thing of the past, especialy when you have OP agent as Tejo), and no BBL isnt good. Maybe TH and FUT will save us.
To be fair I just think this year everyone is "bad", everyone try to figure out what is really the new meta, and is kinda bad at it, but also kinda bad at executing those new comp. The region that will figure out first (and manage to master it) will win most event this year. In S3, america's team where the first to trust Chamber, and they absolutely dominated the internationals tournament. I think we might be in the same situation.
My guess is that 2 ctrl, 1duel, 1 reveal, 1 flash will be the optimal meta (Like last year champ) : like I said in that vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrMksWF43n8
And the team that will figure out first will have an advantage
Oh boy I just have a PTSD remembering the situation in League
I dont get why it would be fair to give that type of advantage to a looseing team x)
Team hasnt figure out what is great yet, Tejo and Vyze reshuffle things a lot, and team arent used to do something new.
Not sure it will stand, I just feel people experiment but and the end of the year we will end on thinking X is OP and we will need new agent to reshuffle things
WTF does FNC/KC play today and TL/TH play in 5 days ???
The looser of TL and TH games will be fucked, they will have 2 day to prepare while their opponent have 7 day
We kinda go back to thins video when you have some situation when loosing give you an unfair advantage : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvn-sRsuZTE
Basically half is deadlock, quarter is Iso, quarter is Harbor.
Anyway, ASent stay top 3 of no flashor maps ^^
What ? Ascent is the most stale meta we hs ever saw...
While people glaze the 2 sentinel composition that have been played at the start of the kickoff, data of last year seems to show that no-sentinel composition (Modulo Vyze) are really great , and may even be the future of Valorant
And here is why : https://youtu.be/nrMksWF43n8
I think Cypher nerf and Killjoy should in long term go down when the inertia will be over; Riot might have kill the 2 most viable sentinel, and even if I think Vyze is OP in proplay because she perfectly fit the meta, we may see more and more composition where the sentinel has been replace by a controller. (And I think it's a good thing)
I didn't talk about it yet in the video, but I believe the future of Valorant is 2-controller composition, with a Duelist, an Reveal, and the last spot for the 3 other roles. because it allow you to take mush more risk.
What is your point of view ?
Ascent is the most defense favor map, and the 3rd map in term of non-flasher in Pickrate 7%, 56% NMWR
Best exemple is Jett/Sage/Sova/Kjoy/Vipr
Was the meta comp for a long time
She wasn't nerfed on preseason so no reason to believe her strengh in the last split have changed. You don't judge a pick on 3 maps ^^ (especially since the top team hanst played yet since they arrive in round 2)
Only reason I can justify people pick her less it's because pick her less and less in soloQ and doesn't know to play well enough for proplay, but she was strong after her nerf so no reason to beleive she is weak now (Especially with Tejo that can counter KJ ult that was countering Viper ult)
Yup, I did question myself a lot about putting Gekko in vision, but since team use him a lot like that, I decided to consider him as a vision (Played in 1011 games as solovision, played in 589 games as a solo vision T1 + T2 combined in Split 2 only)
No worry it was already the case before Neon up.
Name one specific reason why no flash are good on Lotus and Icebox (Literally the 2 most different map in the mapool) and it couldnt be sucessfull in other map ? Except Breeze the Winrate of this composition are in positive in every single map.
Data on 2024 Split 2 (T1+T2) : 0-flash composition représent 14% of compositions, (55% Non Mirror Winrate)
Pickrate by mat
On the last master only
Composition without a flash are also good.
3 initiator is an horrible composition, if you remove your sentinel it's fgor a smoker (And 2 smoker comp are strong)
Sentinel are weak as fuck in the current meta, when the best team gonna play people gonna copy them, we ended the year about 0 sentinel being meta en Bind, Breeze, Abyss and fucking Lotus. Every sentinel where nerf and now we have 2 senitnel meta ? This makes no sense, this new mode gonna stay for like 2 mounth and split 1 we gonna see less and less senitnels (Even more when Tejo will be mastered)
I'm kinda sure that the gameplan is to have a better aim than their opponent here...
I dont get why they dont go full Russian, when you commit on a subregion you will got a fanbase even if you are low tier (Same for BBL, going Inter is bad)
The 2 worst map of the game come back x)
I like the fact map rotates a lot, with recent Breese change I only they are only 2 bad map, and rotate a lot allow to be bore less but also avoid pro have enough time to figure out what is the best comp is avoiding stale meta.
One of my concern is that I dont like the fact the meta change between a split and a master and that may happen with how the schedule is sort out. (Plus keep a mapool for 2 mounth might be not enough if thats THAT volatile)
More I think about it and more i want only 4 act per year (With a lot of change :
Using a Rifle against Iso make Operator usable in the same round ?
I really doubt KC is a boring team, 2023 was peak entertainement
Iso is the peak of what Riot did worst in the game, the agent is both weak and horrible to play against in same time, no agent should be able to remove a single weapon from the game.
Best solution I see is "Delaying the damage he receive after 10 second", (like Clove), meaning if he get shot by an operator, he will die after 10 second, and maybe manage to take some space. So Operator will not feel completely Useless and Iso sheild will not be totally useless (plus it may make heal a little bit stronger because in some situation Iso will die if no heal, giving a small up to Skye and Sage that really need it)
2nd part
+++Ok, let’s look at agents, I Usually I do a tierlist, but for this time I want to break out this rôle per roles because I think it’s more relevant. But before we start, i’ve seen somethind really really weird, usually when I look at the agent, some agent are strong on the map and other agent are weak on the map, whatever the rest of composition is, but on Lotus it seems it’s not the case, some agent seems horible with a precise composition but amazing with another composition
Let’s just start with the most complex rôle to analysis in general, the agent that is not the main diver, not the main reveal, not the sentinel not the main controller : the last agent that people usually call flex, and that usually define the archetype of the composition, and I hate that term, usually on this cathegorie the debate is Breach and Kayo versus Viper, and on this map it’s pretty clear, it’s 42 % Pickrate for breach and 45 % NonMirror Winrate wish is almost significantly bad, versus Viper and her 40 % Pickrate but a 54 % NonMirror Winrate, she seems to be the good choice here, but they are other intresting option, it’s the cathegorie with the most diversity afterall. With the alternative flasher you, Phonix, Reyna and Kayo have almost no plays, next. About 2nd smoker, Astra is the other choice against Viper, 5 % Pickrate, but 55 % Winrate before her up, so expect her to see mush more on the replacing either Viper or even the main smoker. But now we still have 3 agent in this categorie, Iso that have a really low pickrate, Sage that also have a low pickrate but again, a good winrate and finally Deadlock, with 5 % Pickrate and a Winrate under 50 %. Conclusion, the choice of this 5th agent will define the archetype of your composition, and as we see in archetypes data, the best choice seems to be a 2nd controller, so either Viper or an Astra. But you see with other categories, things will be a little bit more complex.
Now lets look at reveal, and you know how I want that every team got at least one reveal, And weirdly enough, this seems the most complex rôle and the most intresting one to study, usually, interraction between agent doesnt matter, wish mean usually you just pick the agent that is the best in their rôle on a specific map, but thats not the case here, you see… On Lotus, reveal create a paradoxe because the agent that are used in the best archetype have a bad winrate, and the agent that have the best winrate is picked only in the worst main archtype, so the best choice of reveal highly depend on the rest of the composition. (Add the winrate of the 2 archetypes)
Fade is the one that have the most pick with 59 % Pickrate, but a Nonmirrorwinrate slightly under 50 % she is the most versatile of the agents, but she seems to have no situation where she is the best choice. The good surprise here, is Sova wish have 16 % pickrate and 60 % NonMirrorWirate that IS significant, they are only 2 % of chance that his amazing winrate is because of luck, but what is weird… Is that Sova is never played with the doble controller archetype that he is supposed to be the best, he is played with the doble initiator archetype, wish mean he allow this archetype to be good, and even Breach to have his chance thanks to him. Then we have Geko with 16 % Pickrate and Skye with 11 % Pickrate and both got a bad winrate so they are supposed to be not a good pick BUT… When they are played in a doble controller composition, Gekko have 55 % non MirrorWinrate and Skye ave 60 ! So conclusion : as reveal you can pick Fade by default but that may not be the best choice. If you want to go doble initiator you have to pick Sova. And if you want to go doble controller, then Skye may stay the best choice.
But now let’s look at the divers, that also see some paradoxes, and the most picked agent is Raze with 74 % Pickrate but an horrible nonmirrorwinrate of 43 %, but when we look closer we can see her bad Winrate is only with doble initiator composition, and she got 43 % NonMirrorWinrate with doble initiator composition but And she got 54 % Non Mirror Winrate with doble smoker composition and is the best duelist with that composition. Neon is in positive with 19 % Pickrate and 54 % Non Mirror Winrate, buuuuut, Neon was hardly nerf so…. RIP… Jett is in negative with 8 % Pickrate, so you probably think she is bad buuut in fact when you look in detail, you can see when she is solo Duelist in doble initiator composition she has 61 % Non Mirror Winrate, and she is 24 % Non mirror Winrate when she is played as a doble Duelist, so Jett isn’t bad, Her Winrate was just been destroyed by doble duelist pick. And you know what is the funniest : when she is pair with Sova and Breach, her winrate reach 65 % Non Mirror Winrate, Better than when Raze is pair with Sova. The same Phenomenon kinda occur for Yoru, but he has less data so better stick to Jett. Conclusion even if she Raze have a significant bad winrate… Well, is be the best option here if you plays her with 2 controllers, but if you want to play Sova with Breach… Then it’s seems it’s better to go to Jett…
Let’s continue with the easiest rôle to analysis on Lotus : Usually the sentinel debate is Cypher versus Killjoy and the debate is really clear, Killjoy is far better, she has more pick, have a good Winrate while Cypher have a bad winrate before his nerf. The 2 of them cover 89 % Pickrate, but some other agent can be intresting option, Chamber doesnt have a lot of play but did receive a lot of success, and Vyze wasn’t release yet, and I do beleive she is strong. Deadlock wasn’t played as a solo Sentinel so I won’t talk about her now, and composition without a Sentinel didn’t do great, except maybe Doble Initiator and Dobol Sentinel archetype. Conclusion pick Killjoy is the default choice, but if you want a flasher, Vyze may be the best option right now, Chamber is also an option if your sentinel love the agent.
Lets look at main smokers, Omen was 97 % Pickrate, and got a good winrate, but he was nerf, so does he stays best pick ? Well Brim and Harbor didn’t saw anypick, Clove have 5 % pickrate and an excellent winrate, she might be an hidden broken pick, but not sure. And Astra… Well, on this map, weirdly enough she barely had anypick in solosmoker, but with the up she might saw more pick in that domain. Conclusion as main smoker pick Omen, Astra or maybe even Clove depending on your preference.
Full script for people that prefer to read :
+++Hi vlr, still based on 2024 split 2, today gonna analysis Lotus meta, and we have got a big sample size with five hundred and forty nine games, so more than 1 thousand compositions, so they are a lot to say.
As usual lets start about archtypes, to give you a small reminder, archetype is the shape of your composition, for exemple for the class nomenclature we consider every composition got 1 duelist, 1 initiator, 1 controller, and the first letter of the roles of last 2 agents define the name of the archetype. For exemple 2 initiator, 2 controller and 1 duelist archetype will be call « IC ». The 2nd nomenclature I use for archetype, is based on the 5 main spell, 1 mobility agent also called diver, 1 flasher, 1 reveal, 1 sentinel, 1 controller. A composition where for exemple flash is missing will be call 0-Flash, or 0-F. Classical is when the 5 roles are covered by 5 agent, with the last letter is the name of the class that cover flash. And Hybrid is a composition where 4 agent cover 5 spell, and the last letter of the archetype is the name of the class of the 5th agent.
The 2 most used class archetype on Lotus have both 44 % Pickrate. IS-composition, and SC-composition, so basically 2 composition with a Sentinel, and the last agent being either a Controller or an Initiator.
Lets start with the archetype that is the most used in valorant in General : IS composition, wish is eavy link with Classical I composition, a composition where the 5 main spell are used and the flasher is played by a Initiator. Thoose archetype have both 44 % Pickrate, 47 % Non Mirror Winrate, but doesnt have enough data to be sure it’s significant because it’s not that far from 50 %
The other most used archetype is SC composition, so doble 2 controller composition, still 44 % Pickrate, but 56 % Non mirror Winrate, wish reach the significant theeshold. Meaning this a really great composition. We can subivide this class archetype into 2 different spell archetype, the most used on is 0-Flash archetype, 37 % Pickrate and 52 % Non Mirror Winrate, it’s not good enough to be significant. The oether archetype is Hybric-C, so a composition were 3 agent cover Diver, Flash, Reveal and Sentinel, and with 2 controllers, it have 9 % Pickrate, but a really amazing 60 % Non Mirror Wirate and is really close to reach the significant thrshold but it lack so data.
Every other archetype are under 5 % Pickrate, so it may be better to stick to the SC composition, but Lotus have an enough big sample size to start making some opinion about archetype under 5 % Pickrate.
The biggest one is 0-Sentinel composition a little bit less than 5 % Pickrate, a Non Mirror Winrate of 43 %, it seems bad but when we look in detail more than half of composition are made of 2 duelist and 2 Initiator composition that is kinda a troll archetype that have an horrible Winrate on everymap because you lack of defensive power, and still in 0-Sentinel archetype, you have IC archetype so composition with 2 initiator and 2 controller got indeed 61 % Non Mirror Winrate, again we lack of data, but if you want to go without a Sentinel, this may be the solution.
I have nothing to say about 0-Reveal composition, 2 % Pickrate isnt enough to make a judgement and for one the Non Mirror Winrate isnt in negative, but I still think it’s a troll archetype everywhere.
If we look at class archetype then we have DS composition, a composition with a little bit more than 3 % pickrate and 32 % Non Mirror Winrate that is significant even if the sample is low. Never play doble duelist on Lotus.
We can end the archetype anlysis on Lotus with doble Sentinel archetype 3 % Pickrate for 45 % Non Mirror Winrate, it’s not bad enough to be significant, but again, why play this archetype when you can play SC composition that seems more reliable ?
"Another example is the French teams, they’re moving to international rosters too. GE and Indian talent… I could go on and on tbh"
I hate thats happen, the important is to paticipate and wedont participate anymore :X
I suppose TH will become the "German team" in long term
1 region for TR make absolutely no sense, even South America can't afford being a league on their own, I'm not even sure Europe Alone would be big enough. Only thing I can accept is to having a "Central Eurasia region" givinig a spot to MENA, India (opening a spot for OCE in APAC), either TR or CIS, and maybe Africa, a T1 region
What EMEA team you want to kick ?
The only team I can imagine that we kick is GX
I made them myself, I can develop the methodologie more, and send you the Xcel scheet if needed (Also the archetype model still need some improvement,but thats like every model, you can always make them better
Someone else used the word archetype, thats already a win
Dont apologies for saying something you think :P
It's good to hurt my feeling, mush more than liyng <3
With Tejo, I wonder if Vyze isnt better now (Fade-Vyze, of Tejo-Vyze)
Ouch, it's hurting but fair, for this season I consider trying to have a fake english accent, I have no idea if it will be easier to understand
And that would be amazing, chaos is fun, stale meta is not fun, adaptability in chaos is an instresting skill to develop in proplay :c
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