TMV fundamentally misunderstands Sova and Fade

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#1
Cheasle2
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Sova and Fade are the only initiators that are even playable, because they're the only initiators that do something useful, that no other agent can do (to their level).
Everyone compared Initiators with other initiators, as if they serve the same purpose. But in fact every agent competes with every other agent for their slot withing a team comp. What do they bring to the table?
When a team comp needs smokes, you pick controller
when you need dive, you pick duelist
when you need passive info, you pick sentinel
when you need flashes... you also pick duelist
when you need stuns... you pick duelist...
when you need mollies... you pick duelist... or controller... or sentinel......

when you need recon, you pick sova or fade.

Why bother playing Breach, Kayo, Tejo, Gekko when Yoru, Omen, Phoenix, Neon, Waylay exist? They don't bring anything to a team comp that other classes don't already have plenty of.

What they should do instead is fundamentally rework the other initiators to have more information utility. Recon is the one thing that Initiators have over other classes, and Sova/Fade are the only AGENTS with recon. If they got nerfed heavily, people would not start playing the other initiators, because they will still be overshadowed by better agents in other classes.

#2
askrial
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that's literally his point.

#5
askrial
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yo, tmv, if you make another video on this, put me in the screenshot.

#6
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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Put ME AS WELL TMV

#8
Big-Bot-Brim
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The dude above me watches vyes rule 34 👆🏻

#14
FancyPancy
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What wrong with that dude 😔

#12
Cheasle2
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He said to nerf their cooldowns, but that would not fix the issue at all. Even removing Sova and Fade from the game would not revive the other initiators, at best people would play Skye, but that's it.

#15
askrial
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he also talked about in his second video, which you most likely did not watch, that what you said was not his take. his take is almost exactly what you outlined, which is to nerf fade and sova slightly while also buffing the other initiators to bring them in line, and to actually make them playable (and other stuff that i forgot too, but that is the general gist).

#19
Cheasle2
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I watched both videos in full. And I disagree with his opinion. slightly nerfing Sova and Fade, while buffing the other initiators WOULD NOT fix the issue.
The non-recon initiators require entire kit overhauls, Sova and Fade should not be touched.

you accuse me of not watching his videos, yet I don't think you're reading my posts.

#3
Chetin
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people just saw the nerf Sova/fade and forgot the rest of the video

#10
Cheasle2
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What im saying is, you cannot fix the initiator issue with just numbers changes. It requires a fundamental rework of many agents.

#11
Chetin
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then you have the same opinion as TMV

#13
Cheasle2
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I don't agree that Sova or Fade require any nerfs.

#21
Chetin
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but the general idea that number changes won't change the class and more work needs to be done is the same as him but a lot of people just fixates in his (not that good) sova/fade take

#23
Cheasle2
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The changes he offered in the video would not fix the issues that I've presented. Breach getting faster flashes and Gekko/Kayo getting more util would not fix the problem that Phoenix, Yoru, Omen and Neon can do their job and so much more.

I am saying that Breach, Kay/o, Gekko and should be reworked to have better information gain in their kits.

#18
Congo1
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not true at all

#4
Vyse-Fan_In-more-than-one
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Think honestly thats a real duelist problem, Duelists have too much creativity in util that its pointless to pick any other init over them especially with the weakened inits in general

The real thing that Inits need, is more recon ability, as less costly active info or give the init catalytics far more potency than the duelist catalytics. i.e phoenix flash should be a far weaker KAY/O flash etc.

#16
Cheasle2
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exactly. You could literally change Hush to an initiator and nobody would bat an eye. 3/4 of her abilities fall in line with the current initiator design philosophy, and they have given other classes mobility as well.

#28
diffed
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i dont play that much valorant anymore but, when i saw the new agent i tought, dayum this initiator will be crazy in ranked, and then i found out its a duelist lmao, i was so confused

#7
Ach1lle
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You can clear angles using other pieces of utility but everyone is fixated on doing the same stuff

#9
Chetin
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the thing is the reveal clear more than just one angle so it really is a bit more deep

#17
Ach1lle
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That's why I say that they should change it to snapshot reveal. It can still give you infos and clear multiple angles but atleast you dont die by getting spammed through smokes

#20
Cheasle2
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If you want utility to be watered down that much just go play CS2

#22
Ach1lle
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I said above that you should be able to use other pieces utility to do the same job. I want the oppposite of lack of utilità just a switch from a 6y old meta

#24
Cheasle2
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getting wallhacks is part of the power fantasy for both agents, removing that is like removing Cypher's camera or Omen's teleports

#25
Ach1lle
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So was jett instadash but it was broken and they changed it, jett is still perfectly fine

#26
Cheasle2
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jett can still dash, what you're suggesting is like removing the ability for jett to move while using knives, or dash in the air

#27
Ach1lle
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Old jett= entry+free escape
The change removed the free escape and left her abilty to entry untouched
My idea would keep the abilty to get info but you wont get free kills through smokes

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