the actual problem with envy and how to fix it

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#1
dariusxxo
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the ascension envy roster was a team that had an extremely strong identity. perma double duelist with a yoru otp. really simple but effective calling style. the willingness to fight anything and everything while doing it TOGETHER, and inspire with a playstyle not similar to the other players, but one that ties them all together, doing a great job of filling in their gaps and weaknesses, controlling the map in his own way.

if you look at current envy, not only did they entirely lose the rankers’ core by losing 3 players, you will find it difficult to find any of these points in their current gameplay. aside from eggster and poppin, none of these players have ever played with each other before this lineup (to my knowledge). for this team to succeed at all, they need to do 1 of 2 things.

  1. find a new identity and lean hard into it (basically impossible with a ragtag team like this, especially in the short term)
    or
  2. try your best to recreate your old identity (what i will be suggesting)

there are a few different possible rosters to go about this, but i think the most important things are to keep demon1, as his individual skill is not worth giving up, and in some way shape or form keep at least 3 of the rankers roster and keep that core

these are my suggestions (for short term you can replace ion with any t2 smokes like zander or something and have demon1 not flex smokes but this year is basically fucked already so i’m looking at next)

  1. demon1 poppin inspire eggster ion
    poppin perma scan igl and inspire senti/viper are the obvious two. eggster will perma play yoru or phoenix depending on the map (i still think yoru is playable on breeze and pearl, maybe lotus and split as well) and then ion and demon1 can switch roles between smokes and duelist depending on the map. demon1 playing astra brim on pearl fracture, jett everywhere else. then ion playing omen most maps and whatever other duelist on pearl fracture.

  2. demon1 poppin inspire ion +an available duelist player like victor, flor, or poach someone from t2 like solada dragon or smoke. for purposes of comps i’ll just say flor for simplicity
    without eggster you get freedom to play more viper senti comps since you wouldn’t need 2 duelists, and allow demon1 to play chamber. ion would probably perma smoke in this configuration

example comps:
pearl - flor neon, demon1 jett/astra, ion duel/astra, inspire vyse, poppin scan
breeze - flor neon, demon1 chamber/jett, ion 2nd smoke, inspire viper, poppin sova
split - flor neon, demon1 chamber, ion omen, inspire viper,
poppin skye (prob not the best possible comp for the team, just wanted to give an example of double smoke with a senti)

#2
hardcake
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beautiful analysis

#3
azert
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allat

#4
hardcake
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appreciate it bro, we could never🙏

#17
Castawaytwizz
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worst user of this site by some distance

#5
Dumbfoon
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the problem is on the current roster there is not a single good player, like not one - no one is being dragged down, no one is being carried. they all just suck equally. a rebuild would involve getting rid of all of them. demon1 is just not good he's riding off his 2023 eg still, poppin looks like the worst player in americas, eggster looks very bad on role swap.

#6
dariusxxo
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ngl i don’t agree, keznit and demon1 are good players, they just aren’t in a system that lets them thrive. it’s a team issue not an individual issue. like for example you can point and laugh at eggster’s stats all you want but you’re putting a yoru one trick on 5 different agents. of course he’s not gonna perform, you’re not putting him in a place where he’s able to. it will never ever make sense to me that they’re trying to make the one trick be a flex player and to me it looks like all 5 players are having this issue. being forced to play in such a way that just doesn’t work for them even remotely.

#7
Dumbfoon
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what makes you think keznit or demon1 are good players? demon1 had a good year and now everyone thinks he's never the issue - he looks decent. not amazing, not bad. but like a low t1 level - like envy level. keznit looks super mediocre - was decent before, but there's a reason he signed to this team and not a better americas team. and eggster has to drop yoru - like no way around it, it's just not a good agent anymore. playable maybe, but not good.

#11
dariusxxo
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i mean i’m not saying they’re some crazy outstanding players, i’m just saying that anyone would find it difficult to slot into envy right now because there’s just no system that would allow them to thrive. it’s just very obvious to me that if they keep this roster the same it’ll take them a while to figure out what works for them.

as for demon1 though i genuinely just think if you put him on what he’s comfortable on and tell him to use his gun he will do fine as long as the players around him have a system that works for them (something that envy currently does not have), like what happened with demon1 on c9.

c9 has a strong core of players that have known each other and played together for years, so it wasn’t difficult for demon1 to slot into envy and drop numbers on that team. he went 107-81 between the two series’ he played, just slotting into an already decent system and locking chamber. and that’s with c9 having a new igl, not having their star player, and also having a decently rough year. i think giving him a shot with another core with a simple playstyle like the rankers core, with one of their star players (i personally think ion was the 2nd best NA prospect of last year) he would do great

#15
Dumbfoon
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ok but how many more years do we say demon1 has had a bad team? 2024 nrg, 2025 lev, drg, 2026 c9, envy. he has never had like a great year or even a good year. his agent pool is also mid and you have to play around him so i am just not a big beliver in him but i could be wrong

#21
dariusxxo
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demon1 has had several bad performances and bad years, i’m definitely not one of those demon1 glazers that will deny that. all im saying is that even recently he has shown that if put into a system he can thrive in he will do that like he did on c9

#8
dariusxxo
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like i’m an immortal smokes player, if you put me in a match of a bunch of ascendants but put me on initiator, i’m gonna find it much harder to perform as an individual than i would on clove

#9
Videl
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Kick everyone. +flor +nightz (18 in june I think?) +smoke +chloric +okeanos +Elevated HC. These players could give off the same "style" and vibes as the original core whilst having someone who seems to have decent leader ship in chloric who could hold the team together. + Elevated is just a good coach. Plenty of potential in this team.

#12
dariusxxo
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i mean this would just have the same problem as the current roster of just throwing together a bunch of players and seeing what happens. it’s legit a full gamble like the furia rebuild. what happened with them ended up being great and they look unequivocally better than they did last year but let’s be honest, people did not believe in that roster much before kickoff and there was a decent chance they would have just been shit again.

#13
laifu
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it wouldn't be the same thing imo
flor and nightz are way more mechanically skilled than rossy and keznit (no disrespect to their tier 1 experience) and would bring back the rankers mentality they clearly miss

#22
Videl
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Simply false the main issue right now with envy is the lack of their identity they have a aggressive style where they aren’t hesitant to take space aren’t hesitant to re swing even dry fight because they’re that confident in their mechanically ability and for good reason. A lot of tier 1 teams even now struggle to keep pace with their entry an issue their style has never had. They simply take fights together and win rounds they have no business winning at times while people like Poppin and inspire where good closers who could at the same time stop them from throwing rounds.

One of the biggest issues people had with Flor going into tier 1 was his lack of discipline and not knowing when to pause she is very aggressive as an entry having someone like nightz who’s able to match that with his only style because they’re by playing the secondary duelist/omen like role potentially there is follow up the entry and trade able to lean into his mechanics enables both players perfectly. Chloric is a good igl but if you listen to Navi coms and listen ins also has a very clear leader like role where people trust his calls on even an individual level thus I’d think he’d be able to handle the aggressive identity of the team when balancing aggression and confidence without throwing.

Flor also add something this team flat out never have prior to demon1 who they still haven’t even used like this that much in having a proper awper. Flor is great at rifling but also good on the op and having him just be an oppressive presence on defense can always them to be more proactive on other parts of the map something they’ve also struggled with. Okeanos is a very vocal player in the right system and fills out roles as a flex and the roles should be a lot more defined and someone so vocal and willing to hype up the team is something you want in a team of 4 rookies he himself essentially still being a rookie and stops the team synergy from being entirely on the shoulders of chloric. Could lean into chamber still as well with smoke on Santiago’s also just overall good firepower.

I dont think its just throwing together a bunch of players this style of play is why this team made it to ascension is such dominant fashion and won but as they lose their star players they strayed further and further form this. I think this takes those really good elements and then just adds onto them.

Yapping I know…

#23
dariusxxo
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honestly now that you've explained it more i can kinda see it, not sure it would 1 to 1 just perform better than the current roster but it def doesnt look like a horrible squad

#10
aqu4zry
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one of these players have ever played with each other before this lineup (to my knowledge)

Rossy and Demon1 played on LEV

#14
laifu
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-stunner -Rossy (IGL) -keznit

+sonofcar +nightz

#16
dariusxxo
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what would this even do lmfao😭 what would you even have nightz playing cause he’s just a 3rd duelist. smokes?

#18
Castawaytwizz
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unfortunately ion is 18 in january, so cant play

if they want to go down the T2 route (they should), they should be looking at fireballops to replace rossy imo

id also like a keznit replacement, the team is lacking cohesion so they could just go and grab sonofcar who is already teammates with FBO on nightblood

they DEFINITELY need to lean into their old identity though, they are currently just a recycling bin for failed t1 talent atm

#19
dariusxxo
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age restriction is being lowered next year so ion will be able to play

#20
Castawaytwizz
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ah i didnt read the "next year" bit

they should just try to recreate the rush hour roster next year if possible, although idk if they will be able to now that cane is out the picture, no real reason for ion and friends to commit to the org

#24
uwukitten
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is sonofcar actually good or are we still riding him for his open qualifier performance three years ago

#25
Castawaytwizz
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i think hes pretty nice. but i specifically opted for him because he already plays with FBO and envys comms are a fucking mess, some normalcy is needed

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