Termi
Ewok
Potter
pipsoN
Ange1
thinkii
Jovi
Autumn
Frost
Give any of these coaches a top team like FNC, PRX or G2 and they would've already won multiple internationals
Coaches held back by players
posted in
Valorant Discussion
I can't believe I really have to justify this
Termi is a prime example of a coach held back by his untalented roster.
In Champs 2025, Termi discovered the meta (I know PRX ran waylay yoru 1st but they didn't see the vision to try it on more than just haven), he drilled his team heavily on set takes. And how do they repay him? They choked a 10-1 lead on haven. Thereby forcing themselves into a brutal lowers run. Termi is literally one of the most consistent coaches in valorant history. Regardless of how bad his team gets at times he always bring them to internationals. Yet somehow vlr has been fed this propaganda that termi isn't a good coach
If the team chokes that's on the staff for not preparing the players though?
omg how much do you want to baby players. If they choke that is absolutely on the players. The coaching staff already did their job getting the players into that advantage? If choking a massive lead isn't on the players then what is?
termi defo was helping out his players by never havin foxy9 play an elmination game and constantly switching the roster so he could never get solid reps !!!
You can argue about how good foxy9 is or isn't all you want. Fact is that constantly rotating players in and out during the regular stretch is a net negative on the team and it showed that year
Do you think Termi just swaps out his players for fun? Do you think he's the only one on the team that thinks making a change is good? I swear you guys are just desperate to make him the scapegoat
Termi is not the dictator you've made him out to be in your mind. He is always doing what he AND the team thinks is best to maximise their chances of success. If you had your way Estrella would've stayed for champs and Hermes would still be in instead of yong.
Obviously the coach is doing what they think is best to win
I disagree with the approach of taking your rookie out of every big game it fucks up team chem swapping around roles and not having a system for your rookie to thrive.
Moreover, it is an indictment on your coaching when 3/5ths out of your core have gone on to win lans under different banners
okay this is kind of unfair 2/3 of them got carried by izu while G2 choked for no reason and RB is just a completely different player at this point who by his own admission in an interview says he was much worse on DRX than he is now
dimmed paradox: DRX roster is permanently untalented but roster changes are constantly improving the team
NRG choked an 11-1 lead to FNC, does that make NRG full of bad players? Obviously not, choking is just part of the game and its not something that you can just not do when its happening.
I didn't say a team with talent can't choke. I am saying that choking an extreme advantage like 10-1 is less so on the coach and more so on the players. Evidently the gameplan must be working if you're getting such a large lead so what does it come down to? The players getting nervous and crumbling under the pressure. Coming back from an extreme deficit is very hard in this game because ultimately all it takes is one unlucky round for you to lose all your momentum, if you have a large lead and lose then you must be making fundemental round losing errors. Almost never are you gonna be in a position where the team is completely outplaying at some point you'll have the advantage during their comeback but will misplay and choke. This is what I am talking about.
nah we always knew he was good, but if netanzinho is currently running a matchfixing ring then there is a common denominator
Idk I feel like when he was on the team everyone wanted him gone and for woot to play duelist
Tbh I never understood the woot duelist stuff shanghai was such a fluke he would be a great role player but he refuses to learn how to use util and they already have a sentinel player
ngl they just need to revamp the roster around riens and wo0t with wo0t playing either senti or duel
I’m confused, why does everyone act like MiniBoo is dominating on TL? He’s had far better performances for TH than for TL
its not about domination, its about ability to thrive, and ever since he joined TL he has seemed revitalized as a player
because late kickoff miniboo once they found their roles was insane and he was literally losseless on Neon until santiago
all of these coaches have incredible talent and cannot make any use of them, and in many cases they’re the ones that have a say on who is on the roster to begin with
it is primarily their responsibility if a roster fails
Ange1 also probably just doesn't know how to coach yet tbh idk how he's on this list considering he's only coached for 4 months
I think that's partially true but at the same time a lot these coaches do give their teams strats to get into the advantage and the teams will just give up inexcusable advantages that I just don't see stronger roster giving up. I'll admit that it's sometimes hard to seperate the coaching from the players since a good coaching environment can make a player do a complete 180 (see crashies).
I know it can be argued that yes it a coach's job to teach his team how to convert favorable positions but sometimes despite making good adjustments the team is just getting gapped mechanically too. Like the SEN KRU game, I think KRU might've won anyways but it shouldn't have been that big of a gap if not for players underperforming
GE's core lowkey has a higher ceiling than what Frost can bring them as much as I like frost
it means making a team better than they were before, and I don't think a coach "elevates" teams by himself. One can only elevate a team who isn't already as good or better than he can make them. Frost only elevates teams because he joined teams with low floor before (mostly Talon tbh) and did a good job there. That doesn't mean that if he joined MIBR he would elevate them. You see what I mean?
And again, the fact that he has elevated teams in the past doesn't change anything to what I said
While I agree we dk if he would elevate top teams, saying he doesn't make a team better than they were before is just pure speculation. Let's wait and see if GE does well. if they qualify to london, we can say fr0st can elevate a top team. if not, we can say he might not.
he doesn't make a team better than they were before
that's not what i said
also there is no "before" for this iteration of GE
There are usually changes when a coach takes over a team. There will be more question marks if fr0st took over GE and made no changes. Idk why you doubt his ability just because we never saw him keep the same GE roster as last year and made them good.
ur point is that:
A. fr0st has never taken over a team(with no changes) and elevated them
B. fr0st doesn't bring the best out of the current GE core. you believe they can be higher
My point is that there is both your points are up for question and we will see depending on how GE performs.
I was deliberating whether or not to add him because of this but I chose to because
- He was actually held by talon
- I still think he'd be able to do more if he had prx over ge
I'm not saying GE are bad though, I think they'll win the stage but I still need to see more from that roster before I can rate them that highly
i mean obviously he'd be able to do more if he had the most talented squad in the world, like what is that supposed to prove?
L take
current GE roster is as the best one in history but its still "average" talent compare it to the rest of pacific, also they dont have experience other than patman (even if we count patman short tenure as a experience)
it's not, all of these guys besides Kr1stal were some of the most sought after players/prosopects, they are no average talent at all
what are you even talking about?
Autumn was one of the best players in china
Xavi was a top3 prospect in SEA
Udotan was one of the highest potential koreans but stuck on a shitter team
you just don't know ball and only care about how big the name is and not how good the players actually are
china is tier 1.5 lmao
also being good in tier 2 doesn't cut it, this pacific league we talking about
YOU NEED TO BE THE BEST
otherwise you just small cog in the machine that trying to climb way to the top, just a small speck dust of history
yeah that's what I'm saying you don't care about how good they are but just about how big of a name they are to you
sorry that pacific has so many talent that great talent from another region considered average in pacific
that just how things works
also GE is yet to face another team like PRX,NS,DRX
do you know how much talon came closing last 2 years ???? lack of experience matters and boy it is the worse time to experience those would come
2 years wasted in GE ??? making playoff in history is achievement to you ?????
you said that GE’s players are average because they’ve achieved nothing which is simply not how you should measure how good that player is on an individual level
I already give you generous enough to become "average" in pacific
they been carried by Frost coaching and still yet to find stumble
they’re currently 2-0 in groups and are 99% locked in for playoffs, they will do good things this year i can assure you that lol
with how many Master title winner in pacific yeah
we literally have team like DRX,FS that has so many talent and yet still got beaten to the pulp by these guys
it literally just average talent in pacific (sorry that pacific is so strong)
I think it's fair to measure player's ability by their success up to a certain point. Like obviously, pros like meiy and primmie are extremely talented despite their lack of success. But I think it's twisted to say that GE were obviously going to do good because they are a "talented" roster when none of have been proven to be one of the best within a region (Autumn kinda but that's CN). If we measured everybody by how good they were in tier 2 or expectations then literally every single tier 1 team can be considered to be talented. Like for example thyy was one of the highest rated players in SEA challengers for so long yet he couldn't convert that to tier 1.
Same with this GE roster:
- Autumn always good in CN but otherwise little to show for
- Udotan relatively mid last year
- Kr1stal again very mid last year
- xavi8k good in tier 2 but no one really can be sure how smooth the transition to tier 1 will be
- Patmen proven masters winner
So it's probably only reasonable to except Patmen and maybe autumn to be competitve as a top top player in pacific
ewok jovi is not allat, this ewok guy put jemkin on fucking gekko, brim and kush on senti, he fucked up comps he has no idea how to win bind back then the rest from him is good
Potter refuses to pick up any good talent
Autumn actively makes his teams worse
Be fr EDG looked worst before they got Autumn. I know it's fun to hate on Autumn because of the Sylvan files and how messy T1 were at the end of the year but last year EDG were an absolute trainwreck. I know their Santiago results leave a lot to be desired but their haven was actually really clean and if some of their players showed up they should've taken it vs both T1 and M8.
As for Potter, she may not be a good gm but I honestly don't she had a lot to work with. The 100T game was a very disappointing underperformance from EG but I feel like that wasn't on Potter's coaching. Almost every round 100T won on their attack was because EG gave them a free first blood which I heavily doubt potter is telling them to do. You saw EG recovered after the timeout to bring it to a 6-6 half.
Breeze was a tragic team diff and EG just refused to win a single eco.
tbh i have no idea, I just think any coach that is on a team employing cned in 2026 is held back by their roster
unsure how good he really is as a HC but he did a serviceable job being AC on BBL 2025 who were so close to making champions
from the looks of it PCF seem to have good ideas of what they want to do but lack the firepower to capitalize off of it
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